[WristPin]

after 190,000 mile my 22RE blew its headgasket.

after removing the exhasut manifold, i saw it was wet in the #1 hole and #2 hole.

after removing the head and inspecting the head gasket i saw that the metal has delaminated around the round part near the combustion chamber of the #1 hole.

well why did #2 blow out coolant too?

because the green coolant that was in there ate away the metal.
i had changed out the coolant less than 10 months ago. but i did use green. shame on me. I have owned it for about 15 months. and based on the amount of stock parts on this truck and the overall lack of care this truck had before i owned it, I guess the coolant hadnt been changed if ever in the last 8 years.

please use the right coolant, OEM red Toyota coolant.



#1 hole. not horrible wear, but still bad.


#2 hole. very bad corroison on the exhaust side


a close up of the cavity

[WristPin]

you can see by the bottom pic, the cavity up against the ring along the combustion chamber. the coolant leaked thru there to the combustion chamber.

[Tools R Us]

Originally Posted by WristPin

because the green coolant that was in there ate away the metal.
i had changed out the coolant less than 10 months ago. but i did use green. shame on me.

I doubt that this had much/anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by WristPin

I guess the coolant hadnt been changed if ever in the last 8 years.

This is probably the biggest contributer.

The type of water used can also be a big problem, best plan is use distilled water. That head doesn't look that bad, I have seen them with holes eaten all of the way through!

[WristPin]

after thinking it over today, i agree that the kind of coolant used wouldnt matter. my thinking was the red is made to prolong the life of the waterpump seal, and inhibit electrolisis in the aluminum and steel metals.

but at least i got some cool pics out of it

[Red_Chili]

That's why I shudder when guys change the timing chains without changing the HGs. You gotta figger:
1) it's an old truck and they ain't the original owner
2) being an 'old truck', as opposed to how WE see them (classics), they didn't likely get the best of care
3) the radiators likely sprung a leak somewhere in their history, like a pinhole in the top, and maybe it got changed, maybe they threw in Stop-Leak [shudder]
4) the major eaters of HGs are infrequent head bolt torqueing, overheating, and lousy coolant condition.

Odds on whether any of those happened? Or all of them?
So I change the HG.

[KLF]

Originally Posted by Red_Chili

4) the major eaters of HGs are infrequent head bolt torqueing, overheating, and lousy coolant condition.

I have changed quite a few HGs, at least a dozen, probably more. 3VZ-E's, 22R/RE's, even a couple 4A Corolla engines. I have never once re-torqued a head bolt. Ever. Never had a failure either.

But I ALWAYS ALWAYS use Toyota red coolant, mixed with distilled water. My '87 has had it since new, and it's still on the original radiator. The inside of that engine is still sparkling clean, even after 220K miles.

[WristPin]

the last few engines i have done heads on, i went back to check the torque on the head bolts, just for shits and giggles. all have been right on, with no pull, only clicks.

[Mark W]

Never had one of the AL heads loosen up. F series engines however...


BTW, that head can easily be repaired. Weld it up and mill it down. I've had a few done this way.


mark...

[Red_Chili]

Originally Posted by KLF

I have changed quite a few HGs, at least a dozen, probably more. 3VZ-E's, 22R/RE's, even a couple 4A Corolla engines. I have never once re-torqued a head bolt. Ever. Never had a failure either.

But I ALWAYS ALWAYS use Toyota red coolant, mixed with distilled water. My '87 has had it since new, and it's still on the original radiator. The inside of that engine is still sparkling clean, even after 220K miles.

NEVER retorque a TTY headbolt such as found on the 3VZE.
I have retorqued 22R headbolts and found them slightly out of spec. It is a service item.
Agreed that it pales in comparison to lousy coolant condition as a cause of HG failure though.

[Ripper]

From what I understand, Red or Yellow is fine, as long as the two aren't mixed together as they are different chemicals. Always use Distilled water, never tap water. 30% should be the minimum mix for corrosion/ lubrication even though straight water will give you better cooling.

[KLF]

Originally Posted by Red_Chili

It is a service item.

Interesting. Where is this documented? Source?

I looked in several FSMs in the Maintenance section, nothing there about it.

Certainly it doesn't hurt anything to do it, but I don't think it's something that NEEDS to be done.

[yotarover]

well speaking of over heating and head gaskets now i've come to my radiator and fan clutch, the clutch is being replaced it's 20yrs old and a new one will take it's place. anyways a while back i had made the mistake of pouring stop leak into the rad ( the grainy sandy kind) it stoped using fluid and then later it started over heating like crazy after using the fire heater during the winter (had the windows down to damn hot) couple months after that im sitting here with milk shake (as i posted earlier the hg,timing are being replaced. that leaves me with the rad no holes in it but when i flushed it out it's like fat just washed out of it... Stop leak is a no no so i learned but how do i go about cleaning out my rad myself and avoid a shop fee to have it flushed?

[Jukelemon]

This has a been a long debate in many circles.

The one clear conclusion is that you can NOT mix them. If you are going to change the type of coolant, you must flush it first.

For what it is worth, my truck used green coolant since 95 (prior owner) and I have used it since. When my rad cracked (bottom weld) and it was replaced, I peeked inside and it was perfectly fine. If it was not for the fact I needed a rad then, I would have had mine repaired and went on.

NEVER use tap water. I buy premixed stuff now and it works fine in my opinion.

[zombie]

I just read recently recomending against using distilled water and giving good reasons as to why. I will try to find the post and link to it.

[yotarover]

i dont think i ever mixed but i have used tap at a last resort. when you fry a steak and the blood cooks thats what my coolant looked like so i flushed it then changed the therm and shortly i got a milk shake like i posted in my thread. but what im asking is what can i use to clean out my rad w/o having to go to a rad shop i dont wanna pay 50 bucks when i can spend less and do it my self. i've heard of some type of acid but not sure what to use. even my shop vac sucked most of it out but i know it's still in there

[BJ_bumperboy]

mixing coolant is not an issue .. and can be , and has been done for years ...


the issue is the length of time the coolant is in the system . check your service manual .. 4 years or 96000K ..



there is a reason .


the actual coolant become acidc , and will actually eat metal in this state ..

8 Years is the problem !!!!!

[yotarover]

still not the answer to my question ( it was a mix of coolant ,tap, and stop leak turned out to be glop so i flushed it but i know some of it is till in my rad so before i put it back on i want to clean it out avoid a shop, and just a flusher wont do it. i've read somewhere on this forum about using some type of acid that eats everything but metal just can't find it again

[WristPin]

the acid is hydro chloric. aka muratic acid.

gotta hand it to you you know how to search. if only every rookie could, i'd have less headaches

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by BJ_bumperboy

mixing coolant is not an issue .. and can be , and has been done for years ...


the issue is the length of time the coolant is in the system . check your service manual .. 4 years or 96000K ..



there is a reason .


the actual coolant become acidc , and will actually eat metal in this state ..

8 Years is the problem !!!!!

how do you come to this conclusion? cause you did it once??

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by WristPin

the acid is hydro chloric. aka muratic acid.

gotta hand it to you you know how to search. if only every rookie could, i'd have less headaches

oh and use vinegar to neutralize the acid once you are ready to install it.

i suggest removing the rad, layin it flat and letten a gallon of water and a gallon of acid soak in there for at least a day. then flush the snot out of it

[WristPin]

wow its been 2 years since i posted this and only driven this truck 14,000 miles

[yotarover]

thanx wrist i searched but couldn't find the thread where i seen muratic acid couldn't remember what it was called that's why they call it a forum you ask rather than search somebody eventually reads and boom you get a answer

[BJ_bumperboy]

Originally Posted by WristPin

how do you come to this conclusion? cause you did it once??

are you kidding me ?? it's a widely know fact ..
check the PH level of your coolant .. or simply do a googal search .. and see what it will do to metal .


8 YEARS is your problem !!!



.

[toy4xfun]

i can not believe none has ask . was the ground strap on the back of the head there, attached, and in good condition.

[KLF]

Originally Posted by WristPin

oh and use vinegar to neutralize the acid once you are ready to install it.

Vinegar = acetic acid. I'm no chemist, but you can't neutralize an acid with another acid.

I've also used Drano to clean out a gunked up radiator.

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by BJ_bumperboy

are you kidding me ?? it's a widely know fact ..
check the PH level of your coolant .. or simply do a googal search .. and see what it will do to metal .


8 YEARS is your problem !!!



.

im talkin about mixin the two different types

[WristPin]

Originally Posted by KLF

Vinegar = acetic acid. I'm no chemist, but you can't neutralize an acid with another acid.

I've also used Drano to clean out a gunked up radiator.

really?! this is what i was told, and have proved it. i flushed out phosphoric acid in clothes. they dont have holes unlike some that i flushed with water which continued to corrode the fabric days after the water.

["N8"]

So just like Ken said, im no chemist. But what I have known to be true coincides with what Ken is saying. That using one acid to "neutralize" another is not right.

But I think that vinegar, what we purchase for cooking and cleaning, has a lot of water in it, and possibly wristy what you found with your clothes was that the vinegar diluted the other acid and lowered the ph level to a point where it wasn't corrosive enough to the clothes to make any noticeable difference.

Another thing to consider is that I think there is a differentiation between ph level and acidity level. How that works and what the designations are I don't remember at all. Could be that I just remember a different chart to measure just the acids, and another specifically for the bases. (super hazy) But also perhaps there is a way to have low ph levels and still retain a high acidity?? mehidono

But if your talking about trying to effectively "neutralize" hydrochloric acid ideally you need a corresponding base. Sodium hydroxide or lye is what would probably be used in any commercial application, but in terms of what might be handy (or easy to use safely) I think a crap load of regular table salt (sodium chloride???) will suffice.


Ken pleeeease don't grade this paper with respect to spelling or grammar there is an ultraton of big words I haven't used since high school crammed in there.


Why I am still writing and submitting things in front of teachers is beyond me.... sheesh

[KLF]

Nate, no problem, man. These posts don't get graded or carry college credits.

But you are confused on how the pH scale works. It does specifically measure the strength of an acid (or a base as well). Do a few Google (or Bing) searches, there's some good reviews out there in simple terms. Like this one:



(stolen from pH Scale). The scale runs from 0 to 14. The LOWER the number, the stronger the acid. Pure clean distilled water should have a pH of 7, right in the middle. Note how hydrochloric acid will have a pH around 1, while vinegar is around 3. So, flushing H2SO4 with vinegar will reduce it's acidity, but not by much. A better thing to use the neutralize an acid is baking soda, it's not a stong base so the reaction will be mild. Do NOT use ammonia to neutralize strong acids, the reaction will be very violent and it may splash on you causing burns, and I believe it releases strong noxious chlorine gas.

You can buy pH test srips at most pharmacies, but a real pH meter is much better. Not something the average wrencher will own though.

[BJ_bumperboy]

I cant believe you guys are still " hackin" this question , there is nothing here !!! ...

those /most coolants are "sympacitico" .. the only change/causality is the color .. mix red with green .. you get brown ..