88 4 runner ball joint spacers

[pcpnna]

i was wondering if anyone could tell me where to find any ball joint spacers for a 88 4 runner

used ones would be great

thanks

[Bear80]

www.trdparts4u.com They are in Dallas, and I believe will have a set shipped for $109.

Here's a direct link to the spacers on their site: http://www.trdparts4u.com/PD-BJS1.aspx?MakeID=1

[4RUNNY]

I use 4crawlers, A bit more expensive though. They are very similar except he can make custom thickness <1.5" (130 shipped). 4crawler.com

[tntoyota]

Is it me or is there no measurement on those B.Joint spacers?

http://www.trdparts4u.com/PD-BJS1.aspx?MakeID=1

Plus I'd like some opinons on using a 4" B.Joint spacer from a TrailMaster
lift .

I'm blueprinting this in my head:

I like lots of droop in my suspension.

Use a 4" spacer from a trail Master lift

Downey Torsion Bars (yes I Know) that have been reclocked at the controll arm mount to lower the suspension.

I'd like 2" of lift with 2" more droop in my suspension

D.S too short? T-100 shafts?

any thoughts?

[4RUNNY]

1.5" BJSis as about as large as it is possible to install (they barely fit in there when installing) and I believe any larger would make an allingment correction near impossible and create all sorts of CV problems. 4" BJS just doesn't seem like it would work but it would be awesome if it did. Are you sure you aren't talking about a worthless bracketry lift?

Brian

[extremetoy1]

I am sure he is refering to a drop bracket kit, there are no ball joint spacers that are 4" even with the 1.5 spacers you do end up altering the relationship between upper and lower A arms and their travel, 1.5 would be as far as I would go.


TNT, if you want droop go with downey/rancho hybrid system, the axle shaft actually telescope within one another allowing for 13" of travel- unless you want to run desert style off road do tyhe solid axle swap for travel.... it will save you axle shaft replacement time and time agian- third time was a charm for me, I am SASing my four runner so I am done with replacing components

[Bear80]

The 1.5" ball joint spacers are really 1 and 5/8". Only 4crawler will make different sizes to your request.

Your alignment can take up to probably 5" of lift before it gets to the limit. I had my angled arms with spacers set to 5" of lift at one time and it would only not come into correct caster. The best was zero and the specs call for 2-3*.

T-100 axles require longer arms, if you try to add more drop with the stock track width you run into cv angle problems. -- ask me how I know

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by extremetoy1

TNT, if you want droop go with downey/rancho hybrid system, the axle shaft actually telescope within one another allowing for 13" of travel

Sorry but DOWNEY IS FULL OF CHIT with thier advertising. Their kits only get 8-9" of travel NOT 10-11" like they advertise. You have to do LOTS of work to get 12" of travel.....ask again how I know

This is on their "kit" with the Rancho arms. I have no idea about the new one but with the BS they hyp about it and my expericne with previous items, the new kit is probably not quite up to their talk.

[4RUNNY]

If you are going to spend that much for a downey or similar kit (total chaos etc.)you might as well just do an SAS because it isn't that much more expensive, unless for you prefer the IFS for your style of driving.

Brian

[tntoyota]

I am specificaly thinking about the 4" balljoint spacer that is used with all those worthless drop bracket lifts.

If you can use a 2" without any mods, this just takes 2" from your droop.

I'm still not convinced the added 2" of droop will still allow the CV to still be inside the tripod housing during full droop.

And I think that using T shafts would'nt work because at hard landing, full stuff
it would push out and damage what ever came in contact

I'm not looking for extreme here just a bad a$$, cheap, sleeper IFS front

Eventually I will try this as I have the parts, dont know if it will work but what the hay


Is there a way to test this theory?

Is there a shaft longer than mini but shorter than T?

Can I install spacer then relax the t-bars for temporary?

I think no for all these q's but I'm asking any way

THX to all
I would value someones advise thats been there as I have not, YET!!

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

I am specificaly thinking about the 4" balljoint spacer that is used with all those worthless drop bracket lifts.

If you can use a 2" without any mods, this just takes 2" from your droop.

I'm still confused here??

A typical bracket lift, drops the diff and spaces the stock spindle down from the upper arms while relocating the location of the tie rod end mounts.

2" of ball joint spacer WILL blow your inner CV if you wheel it. T-100 axles are out of the question with the stock length arms. Without longer arms, on full compression the stock track width is too narrow for the inner CV's of the t-100 axles to compensate for.

For a small history lesson, Ball Joint spacers began for use on bracket lift kits but where only 1/2" to 1". Then guys got the idea that a 1.5" is the max a stock arm could take and here we all are.

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by Bear80

I'm still confused here??

A typical bracket lift, drops the diff and spaces the stock spindle down from the upper arms while relocating the location of the tie rod end mounts.




For a small history lesson, Ball Joint spacers began for use on bracket lift kits but where only 1/2" to 1". Then guys got the idea that a 1-1/2" is the max a stock arm could take and here we all are.

OK, I guess thats the spacer I'm refering to, just not dropping the diff.

my cheapo trailmaster has a big cast piece that appears to separate the upper control arm BJ ( spacer?) to the spindle

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

OK, I guess thats the spacer I'm refering to, just not dropping the diff.

my cheapo trailmaster has a big cast piece that appears to separate the upper control arm BJ ( spacer?) to the spindle

Right, that spacer is part of the Trailmast lift kit and is NOT refered to a BJ spacer. It is usally referred to as a SPINDLE spacer. You should not try to use those without lowering the diff with truss. You can add the 1.5" BJ spacers ontop of this however.

If you are looking to kick it up with this kit; get a set of 1.5" BJ spacer and take a look into how much you can raise the lower arm stops. This then will give you 1.5" of drop and added compression with the shorter stops.

[tntoyota]

[quote=Bear80;1889019 You can add the 1.5" BJ spacers ontop of this however.

If you are looking to kick it up with this kit;

get a set of 1.5" BJ spacer and take a look into how much you can raise the lower arm stops. This then will give you 1.5" of drop and added compression with the shorter stops.[/quote]


Add the 1.5" BJ spacers ontop of the spindle spacer?

Kick it up?.......... Do you mean lift it?

Yes I do wish to lift it but I want more than eye apeal, I want something functional as well.

2MK a spacer lift removes that amount in droop.

Just now, I think I get what your trying 2 say, do you mean assuming I already have the kit instaled then follow that with a BJ spacer.

I have an 86 4x RET 5sp with a drop bracket "trail-blocker" lift installed ONLY because I bought it this way. It's going away

I have an 85 RET 4Runner with no lift and want a functional, cheap,
quiet, unassuming lift, it's AT and will countiue to be so, trail only, 5-6 on a 1-10 scale

Last night I had a thought, assuming the spindle spacer still could act as spacer, instead of using a longer shaft..........
use a spacer between the tripod housing and diff.

I know I've seen that thing some where?

So to recap, get 4" spindle spacer's(IF) and a tripod housing spacer.

install both, reclocking the Torsen bars to lower the suspension 2"

What do you think?

[Bear80]

Yep, add the 1.5" BJ spacer on top of the spindle spacer. That is where BJ spacers got their start. "Kick it up", sorry I meant like kick it up a notch or raise the bar etc.

A bracket lift kit like the "trail-blocker" (funny nick name) actually gives you a little more compression due to the extra leverage and even more so with BJ spacers added. To take advantage of this you need to raise the lower bump stops. Then with the BJ spacers also installed, you gain 1.5" of drop. This is just about the limits you can push any bracket lift kit, which is still better than stock.

Some people have a misconception that a bracket lift which drops the front diff and truss down is a waste of time. HOWEVER, there is EXACTLY the same amount of clearance as stock, but now with the ability to clear LARGER tires. The larger the tires, the smaller the rocks and holes become. Which is why if you want to take full advanatge of a little more center truss clearance AND wheel travel the 1.5" BJ spacers are the way to go, stock or lifted.

IF you try to lift the truck without spacing things down, so that the center truss is higher than the lower arms, you run into 2 major issues. First the design of the steering on these trucks are a weak link. With steeper angles on the tie rods, they are more stressed and with added tow-in forces which are commonly experienced on the trail, will break or bend/break the stock center link rod. This is why new taco's and 4Runners have the steering behind the spindle with rack and pinion. The other issue is what you are addressing, the CV angles.

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

Last night I had a thought, assuming the spindle spacer still could act as spacer, instead of using a longer shaft..........
use a spacer between the tripod housing and diff.

There is a reason NO one has this. The idea has been around since the lifts came out and it's not possible. Fist, the tie rod ends are re-located with the spindle spacer and if you lower the t-bars 2" so you only have 2" of lift, the steering will be off and probably cause excessive bump steer. The lower ball joint cannot take the EXTREME angle at full drop. Then you have the CV's. The outter joint will not last long on ANY trail with that much angle and steering -- maybe if you just 'wheeled in a straight line. But also the innter CV's have a limit to how much angle they can take and it's not EVEN close to 4". You're just thinking it doesn't have enough slip, which also is a problem. If you add a spacer between the diff flange and axle flange, what do you think is going to happen when the suspension travels up?? The axle will not be able to compress to account for the shorter distance between the spindle and diff.

[tntoyota]

Well back to the old drawing board........in my head!

[Bear80]

Oh, and I just read through this thread again and missed somthing. It is NOT possible to re-clock the t-bar at the a-arm mount. It is notched to fit only one way but you can do it at the anchor end but it's not a good idea either.

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by Bear80

A bracket lift kit like the "trail-blocker" (funny nick name) actually gives you a little more compression due to the extra leverage and even more so with BJ spacers added. To take advantage of this you need to raise the lower bump stops. Then with the BJ spacers also installed, you gain 1.5" of drop. This is just about the limits you can push any bracket lift kit, which is still better than stock.

Some people have a misconception that a bracket lift which drops the front diff and truss down is a waste of time. HOWEVER, there is EXACTLY the same amount of clearance as stock, but now with the ability to clear LARGER tires. The larger the tires, the smaller the rocks and holes become. Which is why if you want to take full advanatge of a little more center truss clearance AND wheel travel the 1.5" BJ spacers are the way to go, stock or lifted.

IF you try to lift the truck without spacing things down, so that the center truss is higher than the lower arms, you run into 2 major issues. First the design of the steering on these trucks are a weak link. With steeper angles on the tie rods, they are more stressed and with added tow-in forces which are commonly experienced on the trail, will break or bend/break the stock center link rod. This is why new taco's and 4Runners have the steering behind the spindle with rack and pinion. The other issue is what you are addressing, the CV angles.

This is for anyone with questions or anyone thinking of using this type of lift:

Compression or stuff, is usually not needed in most off-road situations, this is the tire travle up. WHEN you need traction its usually because a wheel is NOT in contact with the ground, Droop or down travle gets the tire to the ground where the traction is at.

WHEN you "crank in" or *"ball joint spacer"* lift the front you are just losing droop or down travle.

*Example: if the factory specs. are 2.5" up travle and 3" down. 5.5" total
a 1.5" spacer lift reloacates the factory spec to 4" up travle and 1.5" down.
5.5" still total. because you are not changing any thing just spacing it.*


Drop bracket lifts only space things so you can get bigger tires underneth it, because they usualy retain the factory geometry IF YOU DO THIS you are only stressing the factory parts both steering and for the 4wd that are enginered for a 28"x8-9" wide tire:

KEEP IN MIND when you are instaling a bigger lets say 33" tire's (vs. 28") you are not getting a 5" taller tire or lift, tires have an axis you are only lifting it 2.5"
however it is 5" differance as far as the gears are conserned.

C.V (tri pod)joint, birfield joint, drive shafts, ball joints, relay rod, idler arm, drag links, T Bars, .........?

Larger tires will definitly stress these parts, of course driving style has a lot to do with the longevity of the inevitable wear of these parts.

These statements are of my own opinion.

THX Bear I hope you don't mind the quote I thought it would just be easier this way.

EDIT.....* WRONG

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by tntoyota

This is for anyone with questions or anyone thinking of using this type of lift:

Compression or stuff, is usually not needed in most off-road situations, this is the tire travle up. WHEN you need traction its usually because a wheel is NOT in contact with the ground, Droop or down travle gets the tire to the ground where the traction is at.

WHEN you "crank" up or "ball joint spacer" lift the front you are just losing droop or down travle.

Example: if the factory specs. are 2.5" up travle and 3" down. 5.5" total
a 1.5" spacer lift reloacates the factory spec to 4" up travle and 1.5" down.
5.5" still total. because you are not changing any thing just spacing it.


Drop bracket lifts only space things so you can get bigger tires underneth it, because they usualy retain the factory geometry IF YOU DO THIS you are only stressing the factory parts both steering and for the 4wd that are enginered for a 28"x8-9" wide tire:

These statements are of my own opinion.

THX Bear I hope you don't mind the quote I thought it would just be easier this way.

No offense but your opinion is way off from TRUTH. I'm not trying to rebuttal you quoting me but you don't have the facts correct. I'm talking from EXPERIENCE here.

A balanced suspension that has as much compression as drop is VERY IMPORTANT!! PERIOD!! If you write off compression you are then transfering more motion to the frame and causing the oposite axle to compensate, ie. lifting a rear tire.

There is a BIG difference between adjusting the T-bars for lift vs using BJ spacers. T-bars require increaseing the pre-load or more technical, the moment; this causes bad ride and loss of compression. You are correct that adjusting the hight this way is directly in relation to the amount of drop, and you lose drop. The only way to gain back drop with this method is to use low profile bump stops.

A BJ spacer add's lift to the lower arm WHILE KEEPING THE UPPER ARM IN THE SAME LOCATION. Which means you gain lift hight in the amount of spacer size AND have no loss in drop WHILE retaining compression since there is no increase in spring rate (unless you change t-bars).

A proper bracket lift DOES NOT stress steering or anything else. It addes leverage to the T-bars and on the lower arm mounts and center truss. You can fix that by welding on the trusses vs. the bolts.

The factory setup can handle a punished truck with 33" tires and a "smartly" driven truck with 35" tires.

[Bear80]

Here is what happens when you don't have enough compression up front:


Much better when the front can compress, tires stay on the ground:

[Bear80]

Set at aprox. 3" of lift, a full 12" of wheel travel and I have it set to 1" less drop than compression. Not to mention I still have the stock track width:

[tntoyota]

Originally Posted by Bear80

No offense but your opinion is way off from TRUTH. I'm not trying to rebuttal you quoting me but you don't have the facts correct. I'm talking from EXPERIENCE here.

A balanced suspension that has as much compression as drop is VERY IMPORTANT!! PERIOD!! If you write off compression you are then transfering more motion to the frame and causing the oposite axle to compensate, ie. lifting a rear tire.


A BJ spacer add's lift to the lower arm WHILE KEEPING THE UPPER ARM IN THE SAME LOCATION. Which means you gain lift hight in the amount of spacer size AND have no loss in drop WHILE retaining compression since there is no increase in spring rate (unless you change t-bars).

A proper bracket lift DOES NOT stress steering or anything else. It addes leverage to the T-bars and on the lower arm mounts and center truss. You can fix that by welding on the trusses vs. the bolts.

The factory setup can handle a punished truck with 33" tires and a "smartly" driven truck with 35" tires.

Bear I totally agree with you, but out of the box are those suspensions balanced?

Are you going to buy and instal another drop bracket lift and then balance it?

I never said write compression off, most professional kit manufactures have more droop than stuff I guess there all wrong to.

Whats the P# of your drop bracket kit?

Does the added levarage of tire have any bad effects on the little diff
with the little mounting hardware? i.e rotational forces?

Where you talkin to those people that run 44's on theire 10 bolt chevy's when you said "driven smartly"?

because those little Toyota *factory* IFS joints just love big tires, and big right foot!

My IFS has custom longfields, mosler shafts, and HD CV's


Bear you totaly got me on the BJ spacers, one O'clock in the mourn
and I had those RevTech spacers in my mind
the old, lift vs. bump stops kinda thing. I thought it aplyed here
but it 'nt


P.S you got a BA setup it must have took a lot of work to get it that way.

Rancho arms, BJ spacer, downey drive shafts? sway-a-way Tbars?, no drop.


Whats the specs?

Only 3" of lift? Thats what I want minus the (what I call lower to lift) diff drop, $500 shafts high $ other stuf.
How much $ per inch?

[Bear80]

I don't think ANY lift out of the box is going to be all that great. IMO each has to be tweeked to take full advantage, there just isn't a simple bolt and go.

A buddy of mine had a pro comp stage II bracket lift and the only problems he had was the twisting of the lower frame at the trusses. I told him to pull it back with a come-a-long and weld the joints. Since then he's had no issues with the kit. I for one would never go for a bracket lift because I don't have the desire for that much lift. I just want 2-3" with more wheel travel.

The stock axles can take some punishment, but if you push them to the limits of the design spces, breakage is expected. I've blow a front R&P and the flange on the diff but no axle or CV joints. With my new stuff I still think the front diff's spider gears and R&P are the weak link.

As for my setup, you got it all about right but I use OME 23.4mm torsion bars. Even the 25mm sway-a-way were too stiff for the angled arms. Also I machined my BJ spacers down from 1&5/8" to 1&1/4". Also I had to modify the u-joints of the new axles. Not to mention I fabed up my own shock mounts. Downey's have been known to break. I'm after more wheel travel and only want enough lift so that 35" tires don't look too goofy.

My lift has been a long time work in progress and right now it's just about to the point of it's full potential. I first ran larger t-bars and ultra low profile stops. It was ok but the limited compression forced the rear axle to do to much work and always lifted a tire. Then the new arms........Bj spacers......several t-bar sizes tried. I don't judge cost to benifit on my truck, if I'm happy with where it's at then that's all that matters. However I do try to keep it within budget, and that's the only reason I don't have a TC kit on there right now.

The reasons I worked so hard to make this "kit" I have work is because it 1. has the potential for 12" of travel, 2. keeps the center truss high up, and 3. doesn't widen the track.

I didn't know longfield had IFS axles, I personally would use the prosche joints if I did it all again.