IFS Lift kit

[bullet]

Who makes the best lift kit for ifs ????????????? And is it worth lifting a ifs ??

["N8"]

Its not really a benificial thing to do (ading an ifs lift) because it doesnt change the travel charcteristics of your suspention at all. It just drops down your diferential so you can locate your wheels lower in relation to the truck itself. now mind you if you crank on the tortion bars till your a-arms are maxed you can fit 33" tires under there no prob, so lets say you add an ifs drop bracket and throw 38's under there. when you aproach an obsticle and put one wheel up on top of set obsticle the suspention is going to max out really fast and its going to tip the truck. so now that your center of gravity is that much higher thanks to the ifs lift and big tires you are going to now roll, and that tends to do body damage wich is usually unpreferable.

My sugestion is to not waste your hard earned money on the ifs lift.

150$ will get you a good pair of sway away extra flexy tortion bars, and when you install them crank them till the a-arms are just touching the bump stops and throw some 33's under there.

Thats cheap and gets you through a lot, and in the mean time you can save the extra coin for a solid axle swap for when you wanna go big time!

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by "N8"

150$ will get you a good pair of sway away extra flexy tortion bars, and when you install them crank them till the a-arms are just touching the bump stops and throw some 33's under there.

extra flexy???!!!???

I take if you have no experience here......

[Bear80]

bullet, how much lift are you after? Enough to clear 33" or what? You need to have a plan and purpose for you truck before you go buying lifts.

If you want low cost, moderate lift, and added travel I recomend some 1-1/2" ball joint spacers with stock t-bars. This will get you enough to fit 33's, keep it flexing with the t-bars. If you go with any thicker t-bars you will gain some street/high speed control but your upward wheel travel is limited. The rear can then be matched with an add-a-leaf and or longer shackels.

Otherwise if you want the run-of-the-mill 4" lift kit, just make sure to get one that welds on. Most bolt on and with use will bend and flex to much. I know there is one kit that cuts and welds on but cannot remember the name. These kits IMO are to much for looks.

[bkg]

Depends on what you want to use the truck for. DD and mild wheeling? A 4" kit might suit you well. Many people swear by the ball-joint spacers, but I have no experience with them, so I cannot comment.

What I can comment on is that it is inaccurate to state that a 4" kit does not change the suspension travel characteristics. I've run both Trail Master and SuperLift and can tell you first hand that the SL kit DOES give you added suspension travel. This comes by way of the ratio of knuckle spacer/bracket drop to bumpstop drop (there is over a 1" difference). Point being, the SL kit increases wheel travel by a couple of inches over stock. The Trail Master kit does not and from what I've seen, I believe the Pro-Comp Stage 2 kit does not as well, but that's only from cursery looks at a friends truck.

Again, it depends on what you want to do. I can say this; when I build my next DD in 08, it will likely have a 4" IFS lift on it.

["N8"]

Originally Posted by Bear80

extra flexy???!!!???

I take if you have no experience here......

Your right I have no experience with anything to do with independant front suspentions.... wait a second is that an IFS under my truck?... couldnt be... Oh look 33" tires I must have cramed them under there with ball joint spacers. Wait a sec I dont see any spacers down there whats going on? Oh thats right now I remember I might have a little bit of experience with this set up and what I know is you can fit 33's easy if you jack the tortion bars. You dont want to hammer them home because itll stifn them up too much but if you do like I did and just get those a-arms down till the bump stops are just touchin your suspention can flex fine. (btw i never said go buy big stiff t-bars I said buy a set that will allow for a flexy suspention. and I know for a fact you can find em.)

bear is right that you need to have a plan, the best way to figure this out is to ask yourself what capabilities you want your truck to realisticly be able to handle on and off road. from there its just time will and money.

but my .02 is not to buy a drop bracket ifs lift its got no real positive aspects other than you can look cool with larger tires under your truck.
but im sure that my opinion looks silly from some other points of view so take it with a grain of salt and figure it out.

[bullet]

The truck is a dailey driver. I also use it off road. I need more clearance, i keep hitting the frame and rear on rocks and things. I have 30x9.50 tires on it now, will going to 33's give me the clearance i need ? The truck sits stock now.

[Bear80]

N8, I was not exactly trying to personally attack you. However, there is NO SUCH THING as flexy torsion bars other than the stock bars. If you know of a set or brand PLEASE let me know. And if you are ridding with your truck toped out on the upper a-arms you haven't been around enough. 33" tires will fit on a STOCK truck (possible pinch weld hammering needed), with the t-bars adjusted up maybe 1", no where near what you are recommending. From your pictures you also have zero front wheel travel which is useless. Just cause you have an IFS doen't mean you know what your doing.....

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Going to 33s from 30s will give you 1 1/2 inches more clearance under the front cross member and the rear axle. Hitting those on rocks isn't such a bad thing, I've banged mine on a few things. I can say that on some trails another inch and a half will make a big difference.

I did the McGrew trail ride in 05 with 31s (measured about 30), truck was stock, and I hit about 12-15 rocks, mostly in the front. In 06 I had 33s and only hit one thing, so that may be the answer, plus I think trucks look better with big tires and less lift.

Read this: http://www.brian894x4.com/33INCHTIRES.html

[89GASHOG]

Anyone have any experience with this one? It sounds great-albeit at a high price.









Finally, a new 1986-95 Toyota IFS suspension system designed with no strings attached, no down-side. Downey thinks the new suspension system makes all others on the market look silly, but you can decide that for yourself, read on. Downey's new kit suffered multiple delays reaching market, but the end result appears to be well worth the wait.

There are no application limits on 1986-95 Toyota's; fits with 4 cylinder or V6, fits with or without air conditioning, fits pickup and 4 Runner, 4WD (and 6 lug 2WD).
Does not lower front axle housing or control arm pivot points. This means lower control arm mounting is not over-leveraged like suspension "space-down" bracket kits. Downey's is a maximum ground clearance system.
This is an extremely simple kit that provides 12" to 13" of tire travel utilizing 2" longer control arms with fully lubricated Mega Travel ball joints (remachined original equipment ball joints) as opposed to highly perishable Uniballs.
Downey retains all original steering components. This is important because Downey was able to achieve significant tire travel without resorting to the use of highly perishable heim joint steering.
Being the newest kit on the market, Downey took advantage of seeing weaknesses in other control arm kits, then made radical improvements in the new Downey arms; tougher chromoly materials, longer and stronger plating between ball joint forces and torsion bars, adequate clearance for full bodied shocks (plus the coil spring conversion which will be available at a later date).
Control arms are not so excessively long (2" longer, as opposed to competitors 3 longer) that they over-leverage (and possibly damage) the torsion bars and torsion bar mounting components. Not so excessively long that front tires have a hideously wider stance than rear tires.
Downey provides longer 4340 axle shafts that route from the original equipment outer birfield CV joints to Downeys new 930 Porsche inner CV joints.
Downeys Porsche inner CV joints not only withstand a zillion horsepower, they also reach a 22 degree angle. This allows maximum tire droop/extension without resorting to lowering the front axle housing merely to protect the original equipment 33 degree inner CV joints.


48086-R13 Control Arm Kit (upper & lowers) with bushing $1303.00
43386 Mega Travel Ball Joints, each $89.95
48186 26 mm H.D. "Forged" Torsion Bars, pair $158.00
48586-R13 Weld-on Upper Shock Mount Kit $178.00
2126B-1139 Front Bilstein Shocks, each $74.95
43411-R13 4340 Chromoly Axles, pair $374.16
43411-P13 930 Porsche Joints with boots, pair $229.80
43411-A13 930 Porsche Adapters, pair $153.90

SEE DOWNEY DEALS AT BOTTOM OF PAGE

[4RUNNY]

I love my ball joint spacers from 4Crawler.

[Bear80]

The Downey kit is ok for what it is. The stuff about heim joints is total BS on Downey's part. Guys that high speed will talk trash about this kit all day but I think it's a good upgrade vs. the other kits like Total Chaos. For the money and no coil over ability it's not worth it.

[Isotel]

Originally Posted by bullet

Who makes the best lift kit for ifs ????????????? And is it worth lifting a ifs ??

Nope... SAS

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/welcome.htm
http://www.allprooffroad.com/
http://www.trail-gear.com
http://www.marlincrawler.com/

[Cube Dweller]

I agree with BKG. Think about what you want to use the truck for. I've heard good things about Roger Brown's (4crawler) ball joint spaces, but no experience with them.

I had the TrailMaster kit. It was ok for mall cruising, but it really sucked on the granite. The crossmember hangs too low, grinds on the rocks and now has far more leverage to tweak the factory control arm mounts. You will also grind up idler arm bushings (though Downey does make a brace for these). So yes, you can take an IFS lifted truck through trails like the Rubicon (I did), but honestly, it sucks. It's just not designed for it.

BUT, some people will say SAS trucks ride as well as IFS on the street. IMHO, complete BS, even with crossover/high steer. If you want a technical explanation why, buy a copy of Engineer to Win, Carroll Smith gets into a highly detailed explanation of why IFS is better (for race cars, but it's the same). My personal experience shows this to be true. For a trail rig that sees mostly rocks, solid axle is far superior. For a daily driver that sees occasional mild trail use, I would compromise off road capability for on road performance.

[norcalsvx]

I run the BJ spacers, OME torsions ,low pro bumps and it does pretty good for what i do(i dont rock crawl much though)

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by norcalsvx

I run the BJ spacers, OME torsions ,low pro bumps and it does pretty good for what i do(i dont rock crawl much though)

That my friend is a great all around set up! I run a similar set up, (of course minus the long travel arms and the extra tid bits for them) and would recommend the same for anyone wanting a well mannered street ride and actual usefulness off-road.

["N8"]

here is probobly the best designed ifs lift I could pull outa nowhere on short notice it uses toyota t-100 front axle shafts and larger a-arms so you actually do gain suspention travle, also it explains briefly why larger aftermarket tortion bars wont limit travle.

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techart..._ifs_lift_kit/

note you will pay through the roof for a set up like this and in my mind might as well just swap with a solid axle if you want this kind of off road ability.

if not just cram some 33's under there its more than doable.

[norcalsvx]

Originally Posted by Bear80

That my friend is a great all around set up! I run a similar set up, (of course minus the long travel arms and the extra tid bits for them) and would recommend the same for anyone wanting a well mannered street ride and actual usefulness off-road.

yea it is working great for me

[Bear80]

So what's your point with the link Nate???? The short about the Total Chaos kit?? Seriously if that is the exent of your reading you need to do more before telling someone total BS here. PLEASE show me where it talks about the larger t-bars NOT limiting travel. Bottom line is if you are using the stock A-arms and their geomerty any bar larger than stock will KILL your designed travel. PERIOD. Been there done that. Even with my long travel kit, larger 25mm t-bars SUCK compaired to the stock bars in regard to flex. On the street and high speed it's a COMPLETELY different story.

I just have to add this also. In your pics I see no front wheel travel and you are traversing the rocks down hill, which usally loads the front end and forces even stiff springs to flex. If your front doesn't flex with it's loaded it an't worth a s**t. If you can get the front to flex on a climb, unloaded then you are gaing groud.....like this:

[bkg]

By shear definition, a 25mm or 26mm will not twist as easily as a 21 mm, everything else being equal.

[cruzizzle]

One point to note is that no matter whose kit you go with (AFAIK), expect to cut the lower right (1 of 4) bolt hole out of the frame where the original crossmember bolted in for clearance. Its pretty permanent.

[ajfriz]

I think that N8 and bear should have a cage match . With that aside, I've heard some good things about aftermarket tbars compared to stock. I use to work for a 4x4 suspension shop that mainly stuck with samis and toyotas. I know that some of the customers were very happy with the flex that they could pull out of aftermarket tbars compared to stock. They weren't our bars so I can't remember the brand. I will have to go over some old emails to find that out.

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by bkg

By shear definition, a 25mm or 26mm will not twist as easily as a 21 mm, everything else being equal.

bkg sums it up. The only way you do not lose upward wheel travel is by using a narrow t-bar. OME is the only company that makes a narrow t-bar, at 23.5mm vs the stock 22.8mm. I think maybe Rancho has a 24mm t-bar.

I'm not saying that going to a larger t-bar is bad. I was happy with my stock suspension runnning sway-a-way 25mm bars but the potential for wheel travel was limited. What I am pointing out is that when you crank the stock t-bar to the max you effectively increase the spring rate and increase the pre-load. This is by far worse off then using a larger bar to achieve the hight.

ajfriz, I think what you are referring to is the overall benifit of new t-bars. They can handle being cranked for lift without radical pre-load while still giving adaquit travel. But if you want to upgrade the IFS for 'wheeling usally what you are looking for is flex, unless you want something like the Total Chaos kit for high speed stuff.

[Bear80]

Originally Posted by bullet

Who makes the best lift kit for ifs ????????????? And is it worth lifting a ifs ??

To come back to this, you have three options:

1. SAS, not much more than a 4" bracket lift but a bit technical on your part job

2. 4" Bracket lift, gains lift with useability and most guys can install it

3. Ball joint spacer lift, cheap cheap cheap, 2" lift, adds wheel travel, moderate lift, keeps the stock street ride, job

With any of these you can clear 33" tires but the main issue is the wheel offest you run.

I have no first hand experience with a 4" bracket lift but I've heard a few good things about the superlift. Other than that, I've only seen Pro Comp and Trail Master that still sell lifts for the 1st gen IFS.

[bullet]

I think i'm going to look into the sas front end some more.

[nat88toy]

Originally Posted by Bear80

N8, I was not exactly trying to personally attack you. However, there is NO SUCH THING as flexy torsion bars other than the stock bars. If you know of a set or brand PLEASE let me know. And if you are ridding with your truck toped out on the upper a-arms you haven't been around enough. 33" tires will fit on a STOCK truck (possible pinch weld hammering needed), with the t-bars adjusted up maybe 1", no where near what you are recommending. From your pictures you also have zero front wheel travel which is useless. Just cause you have an IFS doen't mean you know what your doing.....

Wow someone forgot to take their meds . I believe what N8 was trying to say was that if you are cranking your stock torsion bars up for added lift that you are going to add to much preload to them making them stiffer. If you upgrade your torsion bars you add ride height and since they are NOT preloaded you get a much flexier ride from them. Larger torsion bars also help bottoming out after you have crested an obstacle.
I have them on my 4runner and am very happy with them they help allot with the added weight of the ARB and the Warn winch

I have wheeled with N8 in the past the truck does flex like the one in your photo you posted, those pick he posted were not very good for his description I will check my computer later for some proper photos of that trucks flex