Why exactly is the 3.0 so crappy?

2damslow · 12-26-06, 11:32 PM

What is it that makes the 3.0 such a dog? I have an old tractor with the chevy I4 motor, it's carbed and is 2.8 liters, and it has more power than my 3.0. I had a pickup with the 2.2, and I swear it had more power to weight than my runner with the 3.0.
What is that special something that makes the 3.0 so crap-tastic? Is it the fuel injection? If so, I will gladly mill a flat into the intake and slap a road demon carb on it. Is it the ignition? I will machine a Landcruiser distributer so that it fits my runner, and then install a mels ignition kit. I really dont care at this point.
I'd love to do an engine swap, but it will take buckets of money and time.
Did some toyota engineer forget to carry the one? What were they thinking? Where, specifically, did they screw up on this motor?

2ndGenToyotaFan · 12-27-06, 12:26 AM

The intake is very restrictive..... Make a custom intake and let us know how it works out!

WristPin · 12-27-06, 12:28 AM

why i dont like the early 3VZFE is cause of the likely event of a head gasket failure.

did the trucks you tested have the same gears and tire size?

2ndGenToyotaFan · 12-27-06, 02:57 AM

The head gasket issue is made worse by the cross over pipe dumping the the pass side exhaust right next to the #6.... Or so I've heard. So a new intake and custom duel exhaust.

WristPin · 12-27-06, 03:17 AM

thats why i will ALWAYS stick to the 22RE

bkg · 12-27-06, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WristPin

why i dont like the early 3VZFE is cause of the likely event of a head gasket failure.

did the trucks you tested have the same gears and tire size?

Didn't know the FE's had the problem... Just the E's... Big difference in those engines.

The early 3ZVE's had no HG problems. Just the 89-95. The early 3.4's had the same problem, too.

Cross over is a huge issue - should be removed and thrown in the garbage. Intake is restrictive, as are valve sizes.

So what? Still one of the smoothest engines Toyota has ever built.

bkg · 12-27-06, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WristPin

thats why i will ALWAYS stick to the 22RE

I've owned about as many of both. Lost more HG's in the 22re than the 3vze.

Tigerstripe40 · 12-27-06, 03:49 PM

Alot of it has to do with the design of the head.
It doesn't flow particularly well, and has rather steep angles valve angles.

The cam profiles were designed to meet specific emission standards, and really suck the power.

Sea2Sky tuning makes a set of cams that really wake the 3VZ-E up and make it run pretty well. A set of regrinds runs $400. A set of new billet cams are $700.

Also, I have been looking at the way the fuel injection is set up.
It's a batch fire system, with high flowing injectors.
So, injectors 1, 3, and 5 fire, then injectors 2, 4 and 6 fire. All at once.

The brother of the 3VZ-E is the 3VZ-FE. Which is a REALLY good engine. It's the DOHC version used in the Camry. The hot rodders like this engine because it's got alot of room to make more power, and came with all forged internals (as opposed to the cast internals in the 3VZ-E). This engine can be built to give a 2JZ a run for it's money.

Anyhow, it would be interesting to figure out how to set up a sequential fuel injection setup for the 3VZ-E.

In the end, it's easier and cheaper to just throw in a 5VZ-FE and be done.

Tigerstripe40 · 12-28-06, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WristPin

why i dont like the early 3VZFE is cause of the likely event of a head gasket failure.

did the trucks you tested have the same gears and tire size?

The 3VZ-FE (F denotes dual overhead came, with narrrow valve angles, also known as an 'economy' head) never had head gasket issues, and was never used in a toyota pickup or 4Runner. Just the Camry.

The 3VZ-E was originally designed for an asbestos head gasket. But since asbestos was banned, Toyota had a hard time coming up with something that matched the performance of asbestos in that application.

thekirk · 01-05-07, 07:27 PM

Tigerstripe40... Exactly what I've heard. A mechanic I've talked to swears up and down that the main reason the 3VZ-E has so many head gasket issues is precisely that transition to non-asbestos gaskets post-1989. They've changed the design of the gasket several times. Another issue that he says causes problems is that a lot of folks doing the rebuilds aren't paying careful attention to the precise tightening procedure for the heads--You're supposed to do the bolts in a certain order, to a certain torque, then do 90 degrees more in the same pattern, and then repeat, until the bolts are at the torque value plus 180 degrees. I found the TSB bulletin on this, just the other day, and I'm pretty sure this procedure isn't in the FSM. I'll have to look, when I get a chance.

Amazing how serendipity works. I was talking to this guy about my Land Cruiser, and he brought this whole "aluminum head/non-asbestos gasket" issue up about the 3VZ-E. Then, I'm looking through the Techinfo site, find the TSB, and I'm suddenly hearing from my brother that I may need to do a head job on the work truck... Joy.

89GASHOG · 01-07-07, 10:57 AM

[quote=thekirk;1707781]Tigerstripe40... Exactly what I've heard. A mechanic I've talked to swears up and down that the main reason the 3VZ-E has so many head gasket issues is precisely that transition to non-asbestos gaskets post-1989. They've changed the design of the gasket several times.QUOTE]

I've also read this somewhere. It'd be interesting to see the stats on HG failures for '89 compared to '90. It's not a bad engine, IMO. Seems poweful enough for me. But then, I like the 3FE too.

What's the rush in getting a 2 ton + vehicle up to speed?

2ndGenToyotaFan · 01-07-07, 02:48 PM

I had an early 90 (built 8/89 I think) 4Runner with the 3.0 and it was not under the headgasket recall, and didn't have any problems at 205k when I sold it.....

tntoyota · 02-12-07, 12:32 AM

well, there was two size head bolts to I think 88-89 had 14mm and later had 13mm (mabie less surface torque?) (IMHO) seems like there was two different motors.
late: no problem early: problem

2ndGenToyotaFan · 02-12-07, 01:18 AM

I had a 90 (built in 89) that was not under the recall thing. I heard that the very late ones were not under it either.....

Steve Harris · 02-12-07, 04:19 PM

So will the 3FE bolt right in or would I have to do some mods. The reason for the question is, I'm going to be yanking the 3.0 out and I'm about a month away from getting the 3.4, should I try and get the 3fe because that just sounds different and cooool.

2ndGenToyotaFan · 02-12-07, 04:34 PM

A 3FE..... from a cruiser? There's probably a reason you don't hear about that swap. What's the HP and torque on a 3FE?

tntoyota · 02-12-07, 04:56 PM

This is gonna get dirty.

D'Animal · 02-12-07, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tntoyota

This is gonna get dirty.

Really Fast

12-26-06, 11:32 PM	#1
2damslow IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: hyrum Utah. Posts: 252	Why exactly is the 3.0 so crappy? What is it that makes the 3.0 such a dog? I have an old tractor with the chevy I4 motor, it's carbed and is 2.8 liters, and it has more power than my 3.0. I had a pickup with the 2.2, and I swear it had more power to weight than my runner with the 3.0. What is that special something that makes the 3.0 so crap-tastic? Is it the fuel injection? If so, I will gladly mill a flat into the intake and slap a road demon carb on it. Is it the ignition? I will machine a Landcruiser distributer so that it fits my runner, and then install a mels ignition kit. I really dont care at this point. I'd love to do an engine swap, but it will take buckets of money and time. Did some toyota engineer forget to carry the one? What were they thinking? Where, specifically, did they screw up on this motor? __________________ Some people really have a way with words... I am not have way.

12-27-06, 12:26 AM	#2
2ndGenToyotaFan No longer pre-approved... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Yreka, CA TLCA# 13872 Sign Up!!! You know you want to! Posts: 3,928	The intake is very restrictive..... Make a custom intake and let us know how it works out! __________________ Jerod Online Toyota Parts Catalog!!! 89 4Runner "The James Caird" 01 4Runner, for my Jefferson State Cruisers

12-27-06, 02:57 AM	#4
2ndGenToyotaFan No longer pre-approved... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Yreka, CA TLCA# 13872 Sign Up!!! You know you want to! Posts: 3,928	The head gasket issue is made worse by the cross over pipe dumping the the pass side exhaust right next to the #6.... Or so I've heard. So a new intake and custom duel exhaust. __________________ Jerod Online Toyota Parts Catalog!!! 89 4Runner "The James Caird" 01 4Runner, for my Jefferson State Cruisers

12-27-06, 03:49 PM	#8
Tigerstripe40 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 916	Alot of it has to do with the design of the head. It doesn't flow particularly well, and has rather steep angles valve angles. The cam profiles were designed to meet specific emission standards, and really suck the power. Sea2Sky tuning makes a set of cams that really wake the 3VZ-E up and make it run pretty well. A set of regrinds runs $400. A set of new billet cams are $700. Also, I have been looking at the way the fuel injection is set up. It's a batch fire system, with high flowing injectors. So, injectors 1, 3, and 5 fire, then injectors 2, 4 and 6 fire. All at once. The brother of the 3VZ-E is the 3VZ-FE. Which is a REALLY good engine. It's the DOHC version used in the Camry. The hot rodders like this engine because it's got alot of room to make more power, and came with all forged internals (as opposed to the cast internals in the 3VZ-E). This engine can be built to give a 2JZ a run for it's money. Anyhow, it would be interesting to figure out how to set up a sequential fuel injection setup for the 3VZ-E. In the end, it's easier and cheaper to just throw in a 5VZ-FE and be done. __________________ James Henry Wasatch Cruisers TLCA 11233 76 FJ40 'SeldomSeen' 91 VZN130 'CanOWorms' Last edited by Tigerstripe40; 12-27-06 at 03:55 PM.

01-07-07, 10:57 AM	#11
89GASHOG IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Latitude 58 Posts: 709	[quote=thekirk;1707781]Tigerstripe40... Exactly what I've heard. A mechanic I've talked to swears up and down that the main reason the 3VZ-E has so many head gasket issues is precisely that transition to non-asbestos gaskets post-1989. They've changed the design of the gasket several times.QUOTE] I've also read this somewhere. It'd be interesting to see the stats on HG failures for '89 compared to '90. It's not a bad engine, IMO. Seems poweful enough for me. But then, I like the 3FE too. What's the rush in getting a 2 ton + vehicle up to speed? __________________ Bret Juneau, Ak 1989 FJ62 3FE 122K 1992 Toy short cab 4x4 22RE 175K

01-05-07, 07:27 PM	#10
thekirk IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 142	Tigerstripe40... Exactly what I've heard. A mechanic I've talked to swears up and down that the main reason the 3VZ-E has so many head gasket issues is precisely that transition to non-asbestos gaskets post-1989. They've changed the design of the gasket several times. Another issue that he says causes problems is that a lot of folks doing the rebuilds aren't paying careful attention to the precise tightening procedure for the heads--You're supposed to do the bolts in a certain order, to a certain torque, then do 90 degrees more in the same pattern, and then repeat, until the bolts are at the torque value plus 180 degrees. I found the TSB bulletin on this, just the other day, and I'm pretty sure this procedure isn't in the FSM. I'll have to look, when I get a chance. Amazing how serendipity works. I was talking to this guy about my Land Cruiser, and he brought this whole "aluminum head/non-asbestos gasket" issue up about the 3VZ-E. Then, I'm looking through the Techinfo site, find the TSB, and I'm suddenly hearing from my brother that I may need to do a head job on the work truck... Joy.

01-07-07, 02:48 PM	#12
2ndGenToyotaFan No longer pre-approved... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Yreka, CA TLCA# 13872 Sign Up!!! You know you want to! Posts: 3,928	I had an early 90 (built 8/89 I think) 4Runner with the 3.0 and it was not under the headgasket recall, and didn't have any problems at 205k when I sold it..... __________________ Jerod Online Toyota Parts Catalog!!! 89 4Runner "The James Caird" 01 4Runner, for my Jefferson State Cruisers

02-12-07, 12:32 AM	#13
tntoyota Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nashville TN...But I miss Richlands NC Posts: 1,195	well, there was two size head bolts to I think 88-89 had 14mm and later had 13mm (mabie less surface torque?) (IMHO) seems like there was two different motors. late: no problem early: problem

02-12-07, 01:18 AM	#14
2ndGenToyotaFan No longer pre-approved... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Yreka, CA TLCA# 13872 Sign Up!!! You know you want to! Posts: 3,928	I had a 90 (built in 89) that was not under the recall thing. I heard that the very late ones were not under it either..... __________________ Jerod Online Toyota Parts Catalog!!! 89 4Runner "The James Caird" 01 4Runner, for my Jefferson State Cruisers

02-12-07, 04:19 PM	#15
Steve Harris IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: St. Marys, Ohio Posts: 87	So will the 3FE bolt right in or would I have to do some mods. The reason for the question is, I'm going to be yanking the 3.0 out and I'm about a month away from getting the 3.4, should I try and get the 3fe because that just sounds different and cooool.

02-12-07, 04:34 PM	#16
2ndGenToyotaFan No longer pre-approved... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Yreka, CA TLCA# 13872 Sign Up!!! You know you want to! Posts: 3,928	A 3FE..... from a cruiser? There's probably a reason you don't hear about that swap. What's the HP and torque on a 3FE? __________________ Jerod Online Toyota Parts Catalog!!! 89 4Runner "The James Caird" 01 4Runner, for my Jefferson State Cruisers

02-12-07, 04:56 PM	#17
tntoyota Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Nashville TN...But I miss Richlands NC Posts: 1,195	This is gonna get dirty.

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