[Radd Cruisers]

I had some help from my girlfriend this afternoon as we measured the no-load line speeds of a new 24V Warn 8274-50 and the 24V Aisin 1000 upright winch.

** All measurements in feet per minute (and layer on drum)**

Warn published data:

no load, fist layer of drum - 65 ft/min

Warn - acutal data:

1 - 57
2 - 66
3 - 76.5
4 - 85
5 - 96


Aisin - 150' of cable on the drum (45m)

1 - 50
2 - 58
3 - 66
4 - 73.7
5 - 81

The Aisin winch is considerably quieter, and seems so much smoother by the nature of its design than the Warn. All of the braking mechanism is sealed inside of the winch and flooded with ATF (fill and drain plugs provided).

The freespool on the Aisin winch is also far superior to the Warn in that it is totally smooth and very easy to pull the cable out since it's not part of the braking mechanism as in the Warn. The Warn braking/freespool system is sensitive to inertia when the cable is being pulled out and the brake can lock up if the cable is pulled too quickly. The brake can drag quite heavily on the Warn, sometimes making freespooling of the cable difficult. The Warn is extremely noisy due to the design of the clutch/brake mechanism.

The Aisin winch also has a built-in cut out solenoid that disables the power to the winch when the controller is not plugged in. The Warn has no such system.

The Aisin winch has a temperature sensor linked to a buzzer on the winch remote that sounds when the motor is getting too hot. The Warn has a temperature sensor built into the winch, but the wires have been cut off. My understanding is that in other markets, there is a cut-out solenoid that stops the flow of electricity when the sensor detects and overheat condition. It's too bad that Warn doesn't leave the wires to the sensor intact so that this system can be used if the owner so desires.


Hope this helps provide some helpful data for those who were curious.

~John

[lshobie]

I have a warn 8274, I cut the drum off, lengthened it my 3 inches and welded in a 1.5 inch solid shaft instead of the factory 3 inch drum - so I get literally a ton or more pulling power - although I did lose line speed but that doesn't matter to me. I also run master pull.

The only problem I ever had with the 8274 is that the shitty solenoids stuck on once - and that isn't fun when the truck is being pulled into the trees - a quick tap with my boot and it stopped. I have since replaced the solenoid pack with the smaller watertight heavy duty albright solenoid - anyone who is serious about winching uses this solenoid now.

Yes the freespool is a pain in the ass but if the drum plate on the end of the drum is positioned properly then the freespool should work just fine, if the brake engages then it might be time for a brake service and a new spring. The 8274 isn't perfectly waterproof but I have taken care of most of that now. All in all I'd still go with a warn for parts availability and strength, but if the aisin came on my truck I'd still use it - but would hate to have to buy a part for it. Someone priced a factory upright aisin from toyota and it think it was about 4000usd - and I think they had one in California.

This is a test I did after the masterpull and drum modification, how much do you think the pull was with a single line on the 1.5 inch drum, in clay with 36X12.5 super swampers? I am going to guess alot more than 10000 pounds. I've stalled the aisin 8000 pound winches before and it is not a nice feeling but have never stalled my 8274 in much worse situations on straight line pulls (snatch blocked when I have enough cable).

YouTube - Lou's camp - LandCruiser HZJ79 4wd stuck in the mud

Cool test though thanks very much - next time load it up and see how it compares.

Louis

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by lshobie

I have a warn 8274, I cut the drum off, lengthened it my 3 inches and welded in a 1.5 inch solid shaft instead of the factory 3 inch drum - so I get literally a ton or more pulling power - although I did lose line speed but that doesn't matter to me. I also run master pull.

I've been running 24V 8274s since the late 80s on my BJ42 and they really are an awesome winch. The 24V version is hands-down stronger than any of the 12V versions I have used, though I have not had a chance to be behind the controller on any of the high speed 6HP units.

I've thought about making the drum wider, but with steel cable making the drum smaller in diameter is going to cause damage. With synthetic rope, you can probably run the diameter down as you have done without any effect on the strength of the line. It's pretty cool that you made that mod, it's something that synthetic ropes make a possibility due to their higher breaking strength, light weight and flexibility.

Originally Posted by lshobie

The only problem I ever had with the 8274 is that the shitty solenoids stuck on once - and that isn't fun when the truck is being pulled into the trees - a quick tap with my boot and it stopped. I have since replaced the solenoid pack with the smaller watertight heavy duty albright solenoid - anyone who is serious about winching uses this solenoid now.

I have had one stuck solenoid on a 12V winch - that cooked the motor. And one failed solenoid on a 24V unit that cooked the controller wires... I think that having a cut-out solenoid is a really good idea, though you would have to make sure that it was continuous duty and had enough capacity for the winch (or double it up).

My 24V industrial winch has the newer solenoid pack, and I think it looks to be better over the long haul

Originally Posted by lshobie

Yes the freespool is a pain in the ass but if the drum plate on the end of the drum is positioned properly then the freespool should work just fine, if the brake engages then it might be time for a brake service and a new spring. The 8274 isn't perfectly waterproof but I have taken care of most of that now. All in all I'd still go with a warn for parts availability and strength, but if the aisin came on my truck I'd still use it - but would hate to have to buy a part for it. Someone priced a factory upright aisin from toyota and it think it was about 4000usd - and I think they had one in California.

I'll complete this post shortly...

Originally Posted by lshobie

This is a test I did after the masterpull and drum modification, how much do you think the pull was with a single line on the 1.5 inch drum, in clay with 36X12.5 super swampers? I am going to guess alot more than 10000 pounds. I've stalled the aisin 8000 pound winches before and it is not a nice feeling but have never stalled my 8274 in much worse situations on straight line pulls (snatch blocked when I have enough cable).

YouTube - Lou's camp - LandCruiser HZJ79 4wd stuck in the mud

Cool test though thanks very much - next time load it up and see how it compares.

Louis

[lshobie]

The albright is an awesome solenoid, all the comp guys are using it overseas as it is watertight conitinuous and compact. I've mounted mine under the hood and use very large cables for the grounf and coming off the motor - I also have dual Oddessey batteries, so with the large cables, duals, 4.3 hp motor it really pulls well. I placed the winch controller plug right in my grille as well - so I get less stuff blocking my rad.

I definatly wouldn't go 1.5 inch drum with steel cable - it is pushing it with synthetic but my rational is that most often I'd be pulling at about the 2.5-3 inch thick on the drum which would give me a very strong pull anyway. The 8274 is rated at 8000 but was also derated from 10,000 lbs years ago I'm told, I've well exceeded 10K on that winch.

Next upgrade for me is the gigglepin brakeshaft.

[crushers]

you REALLY need to try the old 12V 8274 on a 24V system...

Originally Posted by Radd Cruisers

I've been running 24V 8274s since the late 80s on my BJ42 and they really are an awesome winch. The 24V version is hands-down stronger than any of the 12V versions I have used,

[Radd Cruisers]

Originally Posted by crushers

you REALLY need to try the old 12V 8274 on a 24V system...

If you still have that unit up and running, how about posting up some numbers?

~John

[crushers]

3 years and going strong...
i can run some numbers later but not in the next few days...

[cicak]

HEre Here to the albright solenoid 2 years on and still running. I have it installed on the 8274 (6HP motor also) in my BJ75 TROOPY.

Looks like I have to test the WARN 8274 in the TROOPY and the Aisin Upright in RED side by side one day to see who wins.

[prado t]

Nice comparison , Thanks for taking the time for the dreaded line speeds John

[lulo]

Originally Posted by lshobie

The albright is an awesome solenoid, all the comp guys are using it overseas as it is watertight conitinuous and compact. I've mounted mine under the hood and use very large cables for the grounf and coming off the motor - I also have dual Oddessey batteries, so with the large cables, duals, 4.3 hp motor it really pulls well. I placed the winch controller plug right in my grille as well - so I get less stuff blocking my rad.

I definatly wouldn't go 1.5 inch drum with steel cable - it is pushing it with synthetic but my rational is that most often I'd be pulling at about the 2.5-3 inch thick on the drum which would give me a very strong pull anyway. The 8274 is rated at 8000 but was also derated from 10,000 lbs years ago I'm told, I've well exceeded 10K on that winch.

Next upgrade for me is the gigglepin brakeshaft.

I have the all-bright solenoid, I have not used yet, but my friends use them in 4x4 competitions and 4x4 Extreme Trial and so far have not been many problems, although I always bring WARN solenoids in my spare-parts BOX.


A friend fabricated this piece for the 8274 brake, I only need to mount it on my winch

CHEAP option









Winch photo of the friend who fabricated this piece

[lshobie]

That's a good mod to have, but how the hell does he drill the shaft?!! That is shaft is so hard - must have to go into a machine shop.

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by lshobie

That's a good mod to have, but how the hell does he drill the shaft?!! That is shaft is so hard - must have to go into a machine shop.

Always amazes me that Warn still use a CirClip to hold the brake on. Plus the R clip to stop the free spool disengaging.



Another easy up grade to a warn 8274 12v is to switch the motor to the 6hp XP line speed is a little slower but more pulling power. Does require the winch in solenoids to be up graded too but you can squeeze them in the Warn control pack.



Bronze bush with grease nipple.



Smaller longer drum to increase pulling power but again at the expense of off load line speed.





Leaves you with this.






Motor with breather.



If you want more put 24v through the 12v motor but don't stall the winch

Oh and for getting out of the $hit this is what it can do just on the batteries.



Old school made better with a few minor mods.

[lshobie]

I went down to a 1.5 inch drum and it pulls like crazy - and haven't broken the rope, and yes at the expense of line speed. I like your mod that added the cross members to keep the plates aligned so it will freespool better - that'll be added to my list of things to do - how do you find it freespools now?

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by lshobie

I went down to a 1.5 inch drum and it pulls like crazy - and haven't broken the rope, and yes at the expense of line speed. I like your mod that added the cross members to keep the plates aligned so it will freespool better - that'll be added to my list of things to do - how do you find it freespools now?

Free spool is better but never use it, it's still quicker and winch out,

[Glenn-BJ74]

Originally Posted by crushers

3 years and going strong...
i can run some numbers later but not in the next few days...

You put 24 v through the 12 v solinoids ?

[crushers]

yep, did it by accident once and it worked like a charm, fast, STRONG and now it is still working flawlessly. lots of winching over the years, long hard pulls, short hard pulls, reverse out for hooking to trees or vehicles... literally faster than you can run going out, you have to feed out in bursts and if no load in bound the same.
maybe if it stops raining tomorrow i will do a no-load test. i might even do a rolling load test just to see...

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by crushers

yep, did it by accident once and it worked like a charm, fast, STRONG and now it is still working flawlessly. lots of winching over the years, long hard pulls, short hard pulls, reverse out for hooking to trees or vehicles... literally faster than you can run going out, you have to feed out in bursts and if no load in bound the same.
maybe if it stops raining tomorrow i will do a no-load test. i might even do a rolling load test just to see...

Yep you have to pulse them off load and if they stall under load stop or the motor will burn out. Seen a few kill motors at comp, not the best for reliability but real fast.

[crushers]

no, you misunderstand my comment.
i need to pulse due to the person on the other end not being able to keep up with the line speed in and out.
i have stalled them under load many times with no issues.
sorry i wasn't clear on this.

i will see if i can get a vid of the unit in action...

[matt.mcinnes]

Originally Posted by crushers

no, you misunderstand my comment.
i need to pulse due to the person on the other end not being able to keep up with the line speed in and out.
i have stalled them under load many times with no issues.
sorry i wasn't clear on this.

i will see if i can get a vid of the unit in action...

We pulse them as they tend to let go unloading them constantly, maybe our Navi's run faster. The com ring lets go, we usually find one of the segments has broken away, that then tears the brushes out.

[Glenn-BJ74]

Originally Posted by crushers

yep, did it by accident once and it worked like a charm, fast, STRONG and now it is still working flawlessly. lots of winching over the years, long hard pulls, short hard pulls, reverse out for hooking to trees or vehicles... literally faster than you can run going out, you have to feed out in bursts and if no load in bound the same.
maybe if it stops raining tomorrow i will do a no-load test. i might even do a rolling load test just to see...

What estimate would be for your max pull on 24v going through a 12v 8274? Something has to running super hot in there.
Anyone else out you know done this? -- sounds too good to be true.

[lulo]

Originally Posted by lshobie

That's a good mod to have, but how the hell does he drill the shaft?!! That is shaft is so hard - must have to go into a machine shop.

Weld a bolt on the shaft, is a tricky task to do, but cheaper

Is almost impossible turning the shaft, is a hard axis

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

Always amazes me that Warn still use a CirClip to hold the brake on. Plus the R clip to stop the free spool disengaging.



Another easy up grade to a warn 8274 12v is to switch the motor to the 6hp XP line speed is a little slower but more pulling power. Does require the winch in solenoids to be up graded too but you can squeeze them in the Warn control pack.



Bronze bush with grease nipple.



Smaller longer drum to increase pulling power but again at the expense of off load line speed.





Leaves you with this.






Motor with breather.



If you want more put 24v through the 12v motor but don't stall the winch

Oh and for getting out of the $hit this is what it can do just on the batteries.



Old school made better with a few minor mods.

Great Job Matt

Nice Vids and pics...

[crushers]

there is at least 3 of us running this setup.
this one has been bounced between trucks since i am too cheap to buy more than a couple winches.
BJ74
PZJ70 hard top
PZJ70 ragtop
and it was run on a number of 12V trucks before that.

the first time i had the "ooops" it was on BJ74. i am a poor boy and didn't have the money for a 24V winch and i had this old 12V under the bench so i hooked it up in such a way i just took the power feed and attached it to the positive post of the 12V battery when i needed it. the ground was to the ground cable of the system.
i was out wheeling with Daryl in his 42. he had ended up high centered on the diffs in a mud hole. we tried pulling him out with my tugg'm (another story for another day) and he wouldn't budge an inch. we tried his 24V winch but he wouldn't budge either and then i hooked up with my 12V to give it a try thinking his 24V was not working right. i got out and went to hook the winch up to the one battery but by mistake i hooked to the 24V battery. i hooked to his truck and went to winch in and DAMN not only did he come out of the hole, he came out FAST, like he was on a greased log. it was then that i realized i had hooked to 24V battery on my 12V winch. i figured since it was an old winch and a cheap one that i would leave it like that to see how it held up.

that one is still working on a buddy's truck, there is one on a 24V Mits jeep and one on this truck.
...
now that i think of it, this event was long before my move so that would be 5 or 7 years back now

DISCLAIMER:
i am not recommending that you all go out and do this, i am saying it works for me and it works VERY well. others might not have the same results.

Originally Posted by Glenn-BJ74

What estimate would be for your max pull on 24v going through a 12v 8274? Something has to running super hot in there.
Anyone else out you know done this? -- sounds too good to be true.

[Glenn-BJ74]

Great story! - well if others are doing it, it can't just be a fluke for you. I have an old 12v 8274 I was going to change out to 24v, but I think now I will run 24v and see how she goes. If I cook the motor, she was going to get replaced it anyway.

This is a great forum. Thanks for the info.