70 series TRE, relay rod, tie rod questions

[PabloCruise]

*Warning* I know very little about 70 series!!!

I am writing in response to quote that came up in my thread on putting 60 series relay rod on my 40 after doing a 60 series PS swap onto my 40 (details of cnversion here: http://forum.ih8mud.com/co-wy-horset...-air-pump.html)

Someone posted up the following:

Originally Posted by 67azcruizr

It might be a little late for some of you but a LH side 70 series TRE would do the trick without having to shorten the relay rod.

I am trying to figure out what they mean?

Are they talking using the whole 70 series relay rod?

Is a 70 series relay rod the correct width for a 40/55 axle?

Does it take the same threads as a 60 series TRE?

Do 70 series relay rods have two rebuildable joints at the end like a 60 series?

Any insight on this would be appreciated...

[TwoThirtyDirty]

drag link alone is 30.375". Stud to stud is about 38.375" give or take with adjustment. Stud taper is toyota large, same as 60 series. Threads are 21mm. Rod ends are rebuildable, same as 60. Pitman end rod end is shorter than 60 series, knuckle end should be the same.

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by TwoThirtyDirty

drag link alone is 30.375". Stud to stud is about 38.375" give or take with adjustment. Stud taper is toyota large, same as 60 series. Threads are 21mm. Rod ends are rebuildable, same as 60. Pitman end rod end is shorter than 60 series, knuckle end should be the same.

Wow, this is some good info - thanks!

Is the 21 mm thread the same as 60 series?

When you say knuckle end should be the same, do you mean the tie rod going from knuckle to knuckle is the same length as a 60, or same lenght ass a 40, or am I reading you incorreclty?

Thanks!

[TwoThirtyDirty]

The rebuildable lower TRE (actually the drag link end) that connects to the tie rod should be the same between 60 and 70 series I think. The drag link end that connects to the pitman arm (has the female taper for the steering damper) is shorter on the 70 series. This is probably the part that the other post made reference to.

My $.02, have the pitman arm taper bored to a larger GM taper (.667"-.776"). Use a moog ES375 rod end (3/4 - 16 thread) on this end and the Spector or Downey or whoevers "metric to imperial" drag link to connect the GM rod end to the original toyota rod end. All this is contingent on the drag link being long enough (and check that they thread the SAE end to 3/4-16, it's been a long time since I've used one).

The other option would be to use an ES375 on the pitman arm end and an ES150 (smaller GM taper .636"-.714") at the tie rod end providing there's enough metal for the toyota passenger side tie rod end to be bored to fit the GM taper. Then have a drag link made w/ 3/4 - 16 threaded ends, get some jam nuts, bob's your uncle.

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by TwoThirtyDirty

drag link alone is 30.375". Stud to stud is about 38.375" give or take with adjustment. Stud taper is toyota large, same as 60 series. Threads are 21mm. Rod ends are rebuildable, same as 60. Pitman end rod end is shorter than 60 series, knuckle end should be the same.

Are the drag link ends 21mm and the tie rod ends 23mm?

[TwoThirtyDirty]

Originally Posted by PabloCruise

Are the drag link ends 21mm and the tie rod ends 23mm?

Yes

[lowenbrau]

I just went though this with a friend on his FJ40 last weekend. If you want to use all factory parts here's a list...

Use a 70 series drag link end at the box, it will have the tapered hole you need for the steering stabilizer. Use the 70 series drag link, unmodified. Use a rh thread( drivers side) 40 series tie rod end at the lower end of the drag ling where it connects to the tapered hole in the PS tie rod end. Leave the 40 series tie rod end and tie rods alone.

[PabloCruise]

Awesome info! Any idea where I can order up 70 series parts?

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

...Use a rh thread( drivers side) 40 series tie rod end at the lower end of the drag ling where it connects to the tapered hole in the PS tie rod end...

This is the only part I do not understand - wouldn't I need to use a passenger side TRE at the lower end of drag link?

Also, where to get 70 series stuff in the US?

[lowenbrau]

Originally Posted by PabloCruise

This is the only part I do not understand - wouldn't I need to use a passenger side TRE at the lower end of drag link?

Also, where to get 70 series stuff in the US?

I don't think so. You want the tie rod end (not draglink) with rh threads and no tapered hole in it. I'm sure thats the drivers side one but you'll be using it in the draglink on the passenger side. I checked the package and I we used a TRE kit from a '79 and later *j40

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

I don't think so. You want the tie rod end (not draglink) with rh threads and no tapered hole in it. I'm sure thats the drivers side one but you'll be using it in the draglink on the passenger side. I checked the package and I we used a TRE kit from a '79 and later *j40

I think I am with you.

Another question, and I am not trying to be difficult, just have lots of questions - why not use the 40 series relay rod end that would normally mate up to the PS tie rod end w/ hole?

[lowenbrau]

Originally Posted by PabloCruise

I think I am with you.

Another question, and I am not trying to be difficult, just have lots of questions - why not use the 40 series relay rod end that would normally mate up to the PS tie rod end w/ hole?

The 40 series relay rod is a smaller diameter rod than the 70 which might actually be the identical rod to the 60. The 60 uses a longer Drag link end at the box to make up the difference.

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

I just went though this with a friend on his FJ40 last weekend. If you want to use all factory parts here's a list...

Use a 70 series drag link end at the box, it will have the tapered hole you need for the steering stabilizer. Use the 70 series drag link, unmodified. Use a rh thread( drivers side) 40 series tie rod end at the lower end of the drag ling where it connects to the tapered hole in the PS tie rod end. Leave the 40 series tie rod end and tie rods alone.

So if I use driver's side TRE, it has the correct threads for the passenger side of the relay rod? This just seems counter-intuitive to me...

[subzali]

TJ, I believe the threads are all the same for TREs, the only difference is that on an FJ40 the passenger side TRE has an extra tapered hole to accept the (draglink? sorry I don't know my terminology). The driver's side TRE does not have this extra hole (extra length), it's just a plain-jane TRE. And for using the 70 series components that's what you want. It has nothing to do with the threads. I think. I knew it would work! So Lowenbrau it all went together with no cutting/welding/fabbing? Yeah baby, I bet we could get one of these from Cruiserdan or have one of you guys ship us one in a box from a wrecking yard.

[PabloCruise]

Originally Posted by subzali

TJ, I believe the threads are all the same for TREs...

Well my suspicion is that one side, driver or passenger is reverse threaded, which is why I was pestering lowenbrau.

If DS and PS had the same threads, the length of the relay rod or con rod would never change - correct?

[subzali]

you're right, just realized that. I dunno, I guess if he did it and it worked then there's a fair chance it's good to go by. Besides, there are four TREs IIRC on a 40 anyway, so one of them ought to work

[subzali]

Got a chance to look at a 40 and 70 last night. The 40 TRE with the tapered hole is left-hand thread while the TRE that goes in the tapered hole is right-hand thread. the driver's side TRE is right-hand thread I'm assuming, since you're right it would have to be opposite the passenger side so you can adjust toe-in on the truck.