RTH: Rear Full Floater - Axle Removal Problem

shinny · 03-05-08, 09:35 PM

Hi Everyone,

I blew up a rear wheel bearing and had to leave my truck with a mechanic who isn't familiar with toyota full floaters. (Like they're dramatically different from any others?) He can't get the the (short) axle to come out - I'm now thinking I effed up the diff, too. Or maybe just the diff? Anyway, any suggestions I can pass along to this guy on how to get a axle out that just won't budge?

Thanks in advance.

roscoFJ73 · 03-06-08, 04:18 AM

My local parts shop hires out a device with a sliding weight you bolt the wheel studs. You then move the weight away at speed and it always gets them off.

I have tied them to another vehicle and pulled them off that way. You have to be careful.

They can be hard to remove from an oil seal that hasnt been moved for years

Z()LTAN · 03-06-08, 05:18 AM

u meen a slide hammer rosco

seapotato · 03-06-08, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z()LTAN

u meen a slide hammer rosco

does he know about the cone washers?

45Kevin · 03-06-08, 09:25 AM

My 78 45 has two threaded holes on the axle flange. I screw in bolts when I want to remove the axle and they get the axle pulled out by an inch or so. That is after the axle nuts and cone washers are removed.

I always keep a few extra axle studs and cone washers on hand in case my big brass drift ends up bending a stud or two during the removal process.

roscoFJ73 · 03-06-08, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z()LTAN

u meen a slide hammer rosco

Yeah thats it and its a f#$%g big one too. Made from the head of a 10lb hammer

shinny · 03-06-08, 04:42 PM

Apparently the axle shaft will move an inch or two and then gets jammed (really rough splines?). I suggested the slide hammer, but he thinks if chisels didn't work then neither will a slide hammer. I'm thinking he might be the village idiot.
It seems I'm left with driving to Bonnyville to rescue my truck so I can do it myself.
Any other ideas before I do that?
I thought of cutting the head of the axle (putting in the bearings), pulling the second axle, dropping the drive shaft, and going home front wheel drive. Bad idea?
But I'll probably rent a dolly and truck and drag it home.

roscoFJ73 · 03-06-08, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinny

Apparently the axle shaft will move an inch or two and then gets jammed (really rough splines?). I suggested the slide hammer, but he thinks if chisels didn't work then neither will a slide hammer. I'm thinking he might be the village idiot.
It seems I'm left with driving to Bonnyville to rescue my truck so I can do it myself.
Any other ideas before I do that?
I thought of cutting the head of the axle (putting in the bearings), pulling the second axle, dropping the drive shaft, and going home front wheel drive. Bad idea?
But I'll probably rent a dolly and truck and drag it home.

Chisels

He wont know if the slide hammer works until he tries it

lynchmob · 03-06-08, 11:25 PM

Does your 74 have cable lockers? I ask because what you describe sounds similar to issues 80 series owners have with the e-lockers when the shaft splines twist between the diff side gear and the engagement dog in the locker. Sometimes the axle breaks in this area and leaves a stub in the diff that makes it impossibe to remove the center section.

I had an 80 series axle that was stuck similar to yours. I drove a wood wedge between the axle and the bearing hub. I had about 1/2 inch space to work with at first. Once the flange cleared the studs I was able to pull it out.

lowenbrau · 03-06-08, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynchmob

Does your 74 have cable lockers? I ask because what you describe sounds similar to issues 80 series owners have with the e-lockers when the shaft splines twist between the diff side gear and the engagement dog in the locker.

That's exactly what happened to Behemoth60's cable locked BJ74 at Rubithon.

shinny · 03-07-08, 08:21 AM

No locker, it just has the limited slip. As for trying the slide hammer, he seems to be having a mental block preventing him from trying. I've always considered myself a bit of a hack, but this guy is a 'professional' and he's convinced to never use a garage ever again. The plan is now to go get the truck and drag it home - 700 miles round trip.

brownbear · 03-14-08, 05:37 PM

Anyone in Calgary with parts rig 70? Borrow the whole rear axle, take it with you and install it to drive it home. Bring your FF to someone else to repair.

shinny · 03-15-08, 07:55 PM

The truck is home now. A truck and dolly got it home. I'm in Ft. MacKay, though, so I won't get to look into it for another 2 weeks. On the bright side, this is probably a good time to stick an air locker in it, don't you think?

roscoFJ73 · 03-15-08, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinny

The truck is home now. A truck and dolly got it home. I'm in Ft. MacKay, though, so I won't get to look into it for another 2 weeks. On the bright side, this is probably a good time to stick an air locker in it, don't you think?

Always a good time for an air locker. Dont forget to look at the TJM ProLocker,also air activated

brownbear · 03-17-08, 01:31 AM

funny I read this thread last week. When I was doing my front axle(this weekend) my long side birf axle when re-installing it would not go in. I tried to pull it back out to again re-try. Could not budge it. All my weight would not bring it back out. I noticed on the end of the birf is a threaded hole.

So wanting a slide hammer I did the next best thing. I adjusted a cresent wrench to the size of the hole then threaded a bolt down tight on the cresent wrench. After I was able to take a hammer and beat the birf back out. Kinda slide hammer ish.

So do rear axles have the threaded hole in a FF axle? If so try that.

shinny · 03-27-08, 02:30 PM

I finally got around to fixing this thing myself. The long axle came out quite reasonably but with a 5# slide hammer I can't get the short one to budge. Would a 10# be enough? Bruce, how did you get Peter's axles out with the buggered splines?

lowenbrau · 03-27-08, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinny

I finally got around to fixing this thing myself. The long axle came out quite reasonably but with a 5# slide hammer I can't get the short one to budge. Would a 10# be enough? Bruce, how did you get Peter's axles out with the buggered splines?

He used brute force. Some combination of prybars and hammering. I'm not convinced you'll have any luck with a slidehammer unless you can make a collar that will pull from behind the axle flange.

shinny · 03-28-08, 11:30 AM

Unfortunately I can't get the axle out enough to get much behind it. This is the best I've come up with and it's not enough. I've got all my weight leaned on to jack, and I'm expecting the bolts threaded into the axle flange to fail. I guess if they do, I could tap out something larger and keep going...

Ron R · 03-28-08, 12:43 PM

Have you had it out before?
In that case you will know it has C-clips or not.
Maybe this is a stupid remark, but that's the only thing I know of that could keep you from getting the shaft out using this amount of force.

roscoFJ73 · 03-29-08, 05:20 AM

Is it possible to remove the hub and axle together by undoing the 5 bolts behind the backing plate?
Then you could put the slide hammer on the wheel studs.

Z()LTAN · 03-29-08, 11:36 PM

nah its not rosco as the bearings and nuts are threaded to the diff housing, you have to remove the axle then get to the 2 philips head locking bolts, then remove the threaded nuts.

shinny · 03-30-08, 09:53 AM

Since all my rigging couldn't budge the bugger. I decided a new course of action. I put the wheel back on, put her on the ground, and drove back and forth figuring something would have to let go (hopefully that which is binding everything up). By driving back and forth, the stuck corner sometimes turning, sometimes skidding, and tightening the two screws in the flange I was able to work out the axle about 4 inches (so the splines are free from the diff). It's definitely the bearings so I was getting spooked driving this thing on one wobbley corner, so back on jacks it went. The slide hammer and the jack-all still won't pull the axle out. I think the oil seal and/or bearings have made one tight collar one the axle. Time to buy some really long bolts to put in the axle flange, and keep turning that wheel by hand, if I can. At least it's the short axle!

Ron R · 03-30-08, 04:01 PM

This cannot be if it's a full floater. The shaft is just connected to the stub and inserted in the diff.
All there is is an oil seal that contacts the shaft inside the housing, so if it's out of the diff it should move without any resistance. There is something fishy here.
Are you sure it's a full floater and not a semi-floater?
If you look at the rear of the diffhousing, are there bolts visible, IOW is the rear of the housing bolted to the housing itself?

lowenbrau · 03-30-08, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron R

This cannot be if it's a full floater. The shaft is just connected to the stub and inserted in the diff.
All there is is an oil seal that contacts the shaft inside the housing, so if it's out of the diff it should move without any resistance. There is something fishy here.
Are you sure it's a full floater and not a semi-floater?
If you look at the rear of the diffhousing, are there bolts visible, IOW is the rear of the housing bolted to the housing itself?

From the photos, it is clearly a Full Floater. Indeed it is fishy though. Likely the bearings got loose enough for the axle to do some welding to something inside the housing. Just keep pulling.

lynchmob · 03-30-08, 05:18 PM

Am I missing something in this picture?? Where is the end of the axle shaft (the flat part that bolts to the hub with cone washers)?

It looks like you have threaded into the lock nut from the photo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinny

Unfortunately I can't get the axle out enough to get much behind it. This is the best I've come up with and it's not enough. I've got all my weight leaned on to jack, and I'm expecting the bolts threaded into the axle flange to fail. I guess if they do, I could tap out something larger and keep going...

03-05-08, 09:35 PM	#1
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	RTH: Rear Full Floater - Axle Removal Problem Hi Everyone, I blew up a rear wheel bearing and had to leave my truck with a mechanic who isn't familiar with toyota full floaters. (Like they're dramatically different from any others?) He can't get the the (short) axle to come out - I'm now thinking I effed up the diff, too. Or maybe just the diff? Anyway, any suggestions I can pass along to this guy on how to get a axle out that just won't budge? Thanks in advance. __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-06-08, 04:18 AM	#2
roscoFJ73 Diesel for blood Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: west australia Posts: 6,298	My local parts shop hires out a device with a sliding weight you bolt the wheel studs. You then move the weight away at speed and it always gets them off. I have tied them to another vehicle and pulled them off that way. You have to be careful. They can be hard to remove from an oil seal that hasnt been moved for years __________________ HZJ75 cab chassis 95 model ,stocker FJ73+1HZ Diesel NEW GEARBOX 1HZ =same power as 3F with 30% better fuel economy 2in Dobinsons lift.Powerdown adj shocks 33 in BFG A/T HJ61 with slidin windas regrettfully SOLD:( Volvo 740 GL

03-06-08, 05:18 AM	#3
Z()LTAN IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 239	u meen a slide hammer rosco __________________ Lock, Stomp and Steer, No Fear

03-06-08, 04:42 PM	#7
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	Update from the mechanic Apparently the axle shaft will move an inch or two and then gets jammed (really rough splines?). I suggested the slide hammer, but he thinks if chisels didn't work then neither will a slide hammer. I'm thinking he might be the village idiot. It seems I'm left with driving to Bonnyville to rescue my truck so I can do it myself. Any other ideas before I do that? I thought of cutting the head of the axle (putting in the bearings), pulling the second axle, dropping the drive shaft, and going home front wheel drive. Bad idea? But I'll probably rent a dolly and truck and drag it home. __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock. Last edited by shinny; 03-06-08 at 05:45 PM.

03-07-08, 08:21 AM	#11
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	No locker, it just has the limited slip. As for trying the slide hammer, he seems to be having a mental block preventing him from trying. I've always considered myself a bit of a hack, but this guy is a 'professional' and he's convinced to never use a garage ever again. The plan is now to go get the truck and drag it home - 700 miles round trip. __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-06-08, 09:25 AM	#5
45Kevin IH8MUD Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta TLCA# 13487 Posts: 339	My 78 45 has two threaded holes on the axle flange. I screw in bolts when I want to remove the axle and they get the axle pulled out by an inch or so. That is after the axle nuts and cone washers are removed. I always keep a few extra axle studs and cone washers on hand in case my big brass drift ends up bending a stud or two during the removal process.

03-06-08, 11:25 PM	#9
lynchmob Diesel Trucker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portland OR - USA Posts: 949	Does your 74 have cable lockers? I ask because what you describe sounds similar to issues 80 series owners have with the e-lockers when the shaft splines twist between the diff side gear and the engagement dog in the locker. Sometimes the axle breaks in this area and leaves a stub in the diff that makes it impossibe to remove the center section. I had an 80 series axle that was stuck similar to yours. I drove a wood wedge between the axle and the bearing hub. I had about 1/2 inch space to work with at first. Once the flange cleared the studs I was able to pull it out.

03-14-08, 05:37 PM	#12
brownbear Mod in Hibernation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Where diesels purr and turbos whine TLCA# 15584 Posts: 6,144	Anyone in Calgary with parts rig 70? Borrow the whole rear axle, take it with you and install it to drive it home. Bring your FF to someone else to repair. __________________ -84 BJ60, Finally on the FN road! -91 FJ80, wife's ride Iron Butt award winner of the Cruise Moab 08 !

03-15-08, 07:55 PM	#13
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	The truck is home now. A truck and dolly got it home. I'm in Ft. MacKay, though, so I won't get to look into it for another 2 weeks. On the bright side, this is probably a good time to stick an air locker in it, don't you think? __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-17-08, 01:31 AM	#15
brownbear Mod in Hibernation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Where diesels purr and turbos whine TLCA# 15584 Posts: 6,144	funny I read this thread last week. When I was doing my front axle(this weekend) my long side birf axle when re-installing it would not go in. I tried to pull it back out to again re-try. Could not budge it. All my weight would not bring it back out. I noticed on the end of the birf is a threaded hole. So wanting a slide hammer I did the next best thing. I adjusted a cresent wrench to the size of the hole then threaded a bolt down tight on the cresent wrench. After I was able to take a hammer and beat the birf back out. Kinda slide hammer ish. So do rear axles have the threaded hole in a FF axle? If so try that. __________________ -84 BJ60, Finally on the FN road! -91 FJ80, wife's ride Iron Butt award winner of the Cruise Moab 08 !

03-27-08, 02:30 PM	#16
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	plan B? I finally got around to fixing this thing myself. The long axle came out quite reasonably but with a 5# slide hammer I can't get the short one to budge. Would a 10# be enough? Bruce, how did you get Peter's axles out with the buggered splines? __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-28-08, 11:30 AM	#18
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	Unfortunately I can't get the axle out enough to get much behind it. This is the best I've come up with and it's not enough. I've got all my weight leaned on to jack, and I'm expecting the bolts threaded into the axle flange to fail. I guess if they do, I could tap out something larger and keep going... Attached Images __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-28-08, 12:43 PM	#19
Ron R IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 500	Have you had it out before? In that case you will know it has C-clips or not. Maybe this is a stupid remark, but that's the only thing I know of that could keep you from getting the shaft out using this amount of force. __________________ Ron R 1995 HZJ-73 4.2ltr Diesel; ARB-lockers front and rear ; MM-hydr.winch 10,500#; home made sliders; HST-Parabolic springs; Koni Heavy Track shocks. http://www.ourwebspot.nl/English_index.html

03-29-08, 05:20 AM	#20
roscoFJ73 Diesel for blood Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: west australia Posts: 6,298	Is it possible to remove the hub and axle together by undoing the 5 bolts behind the backing plate? Then you could put the slide hammer on the wheel studs. __________________ HZJ75 cab chassis 95 model ,stocker FJ73+1HZ Diesel NEW GEARBOX 1HZ =same power as 3F with 30% better fuel economy 2in Dobinsons lift.Powerdown adj shocks 33 in BFG A/T HJ61 with slidin windas regrettfully SOLD:( Volvo 740 GL

03-29-08, 11:36 PM	#21
Z()LTAN IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 239	nah its not rosco as the bearings and nuts are threaded to the diff housing, you have to remove the axle then get to the 2 philips head locking bolts, then remove the threaded nuts. __________________ Lock, Stomp and Steer, No Fear

03-30-08, 09:53 AM	#22
shinny IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada TLCA# 17554 Posts: 87	Update - for those who are interested. Since all my rigging couldn't budge the bugger. I decided a new course of action. I put the wheel back on, put her on the ground, and drove back and forth figuring something would have to let go (hopefully that which is binding everything up). By driving back and forth, the stuck corner sometimes turning, sometimes skidding, and tightening the two screws in the flange I was able to work out the axle about 4 inches (so the splines are free from the diff). It's definitely the bearings so I was getting spooked driving this thing on one wobbley corner, so back on jacks it went. The slide hammer and the jack-all still won't pull the axle out. I think the oil seal and/or bearings have made one tight collar one the axle. Time to buy some *really* long bolts to put in the axle flange, and keep turning that wheel by hand, if I can. At least it's the short axle! __________________ '88 BJ74 - FF, PTO Winch, Dakar Springs, 33" T24's for play, 255/85R16 Toyo M55's for work. M101CDN '89 Carib, all stock.

03-30-08, 04:01 PM	#23
Ron R IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 500	This cannot be if it's a full floater. The shaft is just connected to the stub and inserted in the diff. All there is is an oil seal that contacts the shaft inside the housing, so if it's out of the diff it should move without any resistance. There is something fishy here. Are you sure it's a full floater and not a semi-floater? If you look at the rear of the diffhousing, are there bolts visible, IOW is the rear of the housing bolted to the housing itself? __________________ Ron R 1995 HZJ-73 4.2ltr Diesel; ARB-lockers front and rear ; MM-hydr.winch 10,500#; home made sliders; HST-Parabolic springs; Koni Heavy Track shocks. http://www.ourwebspot.nl/English_index.html