tell me about "anti-inversion" shackles?

tpattyII · 02-28-06, 04:40 PM

im minutes away from buying an OME kit for my 60 and keep seeing anti-inversion shackles everywhere. what are the pro's and con's to getting these aswell. do they have to be welded?

thanks

djawahir · 02-28-06, 07:17 PM

Do you plan on doing some serious wheeling? I mean, like the type that takes the wheels off the ground? If not, you can do the anti-inversion or the normal type of shackle. If there is even the slightest chance you would wheel the rig, just get the anti-inversions. The anti-inversion shackles are better in most cases. And as far as I know, I've never seen any anti-inversion shackles that need to be welded...

Mace · 02-28-06, 07:26 PM

If you need antiinversion shackles you need longer shackles from the getgo..

I would say that I do not see any reason to get them.

nuclearlemon · 02-28-06, 07:31 PM

i've seen quite a few inverted springs that could've been helped with anti inversion.

as mentioned, if you routinely pick up wheels, get em.

Mace · 02-28-06, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuclearlemon

i've seen quite a few inverted springs that could've been helped with anti inversion.

as mentioned, if you routinely pick up wheels, get em.

If your springs are able to go inverted your shakles are too short. I cannot imagine why running shackles that are too short on a rig is ever a good thing.

Even with antiinversion shackles you are putting a bandaid on your suspension. Instead of allowing the most flex possible you are straining the spring eyes and bushings by putting a bunch of pressure on them.

beaufort-fj60 · 02-28-06, 09:40 PM

explain this some more... what is too short? factory length or shorter than factoty.

nuclearlemon · 02-28-06, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

If your springs are able to go inverted your shakles are too short. I cannot imagine why running shackles that are too short on a rig is ever a good thing.

Even with antiinversion shackles you are putting a bandaid on your suspension. Instead of allowing the most flex possible you are straining the spring eyes and bushings by putting a bunch of pressure on them.

how long do you want them to be? at least two that i've seen inverted were running extended shackles...one running 2 1/2 with stock springs, other running 1 1/2 over stock with skyjacker 4".

the stock rig was runnign hard through a mud bog and popped the front end out.

other rig was crawling a rather difficult twisty section and put the right pressure to cause it.

both of these rigs sat very nicely with a slope in the shackle away from the other end of the spring.

i don't think longer shackles would've made a difference.

agent orange · 02-28-06, 10:36 PM

You dont want them to be so short that you run out of shackle travel before the spring fully compresses, but there is a point of diminishing return after that as far as function goes. Oh, and they can definitly be too long (the ones MAF puts with their 4 inch suspension kits fall into that category IMHO).

lowenbrau · 02-28-06, 10:39 PM

Mace is almost right.

Where the theory breaks down is when a rig is climbing out of a hole and bumps the shackels into the bank while the suspension is unloaded. It happens all the time around here when you are breaking ice on river crossings.

If you have an over length shackel or spring then you have about a 50/50 chance of bending the spring at the fisrt spring clamp when you invert. Some method of inversion proofing will save having to buy new leafs.

beaufort-fj60 · 03-01-06, 05:00 AM

I've been "acquiring" a lift in pieces and the shackle length is something I an not sure about. sofar I have the "habu"/terrain tamer rears leafs the heavy version and stock length rear anti-inversion. I've got the OME light fronts and stock length anti-inversions. How much longer/larger diameter on the arc are aftermarket springs? is it up and out (higher the lift the further apart the shackle eyes are) will stock length shackles create odd ball angles with the aftermarket springs?

Mace · 03-01-06, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowenbrau

Mace is almost right.

Where the theory breaks down is when a rig is climbing out of a hole and bumps the shackels into the bank while the suspension is unloaded. It happens all the time around here when you are breaking ice on river crossings.

If you have an over length shackel or spring then you have about a 50/50 chance of bending the spring at the fisrt spring clamp when you invert. Some method of inversion proofing will save having to buy new leafs.

most of the time, the rest of the time youbend leaf springs.

If you really have trouble with this happening you need a shackle reversal..

High Desert · 03-01-06, 04:30 PM

Don't you weld "reverse" shackles on the front? And does not OME offer them too?

Just to throw more fuel on this fire.

beaufort-fj60 · 03-01-06, 05:27 PM

i think the "shackle reversal kit" is a system that basically moves the "working" shackle to the rear and the stationary pin to the front. factory setup is pin in back and "working" shackle up front.

and yes you weld the stationary pin holder on the front.

Mace · 03-01-06, 05:39 PM

Exactly, a SR flips the spring around so that the frame end of the spring is at the front and the shackle end of the spring is behind the front axle.

The only reason I acutally like SR is if you are smacking the shackles hard enough to bend a spring. Then you make a nice smooth rap for the item you are hitting by doing a SR.

A shackle only need to be as long as it does. there is no magic number for the length. It is whatever length is required to fully utilize the working arc of the leaf spring as it extends and compresses.
Another fix to springs that tend to invert is to move the shackle hanger.

High Desert · 03-02-06, 12:09 AM

Thanks for the reversal explanation. didn't mean to Highjack, I use to think that I would do a reversal when I go OME, However I'm not really going to get even near crawling type trails in my rig..So the SR would be overkill, right?

loomis · 03-03-06, 12:45 AM

I recently inverted one of my 2" extended shackles...no major dramas, but hell it made a noise when it happened.

nuclearlemon · 03-03-06, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loomis

I recently inverted one of my 2" extended shackles...no major dramas, but hell it made a noise when it happened.

you got it on upside down

Mace · 03-03-06, 08:20 AM

Aint those anti inversion shackles???

Benji · 03-03-06, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuclearlemon

you got it on upside down

Ditto those are upside down. Invert your anti-inversion shackles.

loomis · 03-03-06, 04:29 PM

silly question (I ask these all the time, get used to it) but what difference does it make which they they go?

Are you guys saying that the shackle is upside down (top to bottom) or upside down meaning the triangulated side should be facing the front instead of the back....or both?

3puttcop · 03-03-06, 05:37 PM

When thier installed correctly they don't do that!

djawahir · 03-03-06, 05:55 PM

The instruction on installation leave a lot to the imagination.

At least you bolted the spring on tight!

nuclearlemon · 03-03-06, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loomis

Are you guys saying that the shackle is upside down (top to bottom) or upside down meaning the triangulated side should be facing the front instead of the back....or both?

shackle is upside down. short side should go to the top

Mace · 03-03-06, 07:55 PM

I love the fact that the first pic someone posted is of an antiinversion shackle that has gone inverted

agent orange · 03-03-06, 08:33 PM

You did better than the fourwheeler guys did, they had theirs on upside-down AND backwards.

They truly are experts in their field.

nuclearlemon · 03-04-06, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agent orange

You did better than the fourwheeler guys did, they had theirs on upside-down AND backwards.

They truly are experts in their field.

i saw that too...sent em an email, but that was the first thing i noticed.

loomis · 03-04-06, 02:59 PM

How would having the shackle the other way around stop it from doing this...No matter which way you have it, it could still end up like that....couldnt it....explain this for me please.

Mace · 03-04-06, 03:02 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a bolt missing.

tclndcrz · 03-04-06, 05:27 PM

here is a pic showing an anti-inversion shackle properly installed. there are 3 bolts. one of the bolts will hit the frame and stop the shackle from inverting. in the pic you can see the lower two bolts. the top bolt is behind the exhaust. i circled the shackle in the picture.

btw this pic is from today

02-28-06, 04:40 PM	#1
tpattyII IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Grapevine, Texas Posts: 182	tell me about "anti-inversion" shackles? im minutes away from buying an OME kit for my 60 and keep seeing anti-inversion shackles everywhere. what are the pro's and con's to getting these aswell. do they have to be welded? thanks

02-28-06, 07:17 PM	#2
djawahir Suffering from V8 Madness Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 402	Do you plan on doing some serious wheeling? I mean, like the type that takes the wheels off the ground? If not, you can do the anti-inversion or the normal type of shackle. If there is even the slightest chance you would wheel the rig, just get the anti-inversions. The anti-inversion shackles are better in most cases. And as far as I know, I've never seen any anti-inversion shackles that need to be welded... __________________ I have the uncanny ability to make things harder than they really are. V8 swap progress: 5.3L Vortec mounted. Plumbing lines!

02-28-06, 07:26 PM	#3
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	If you need antiinversion shackles you need longer shackles from the getgo.. I would say that I do not see any reason to get them. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

02-28-06, 07:31 PM	#4
nuclearlemon IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: meh-ico, colorado TLCA# 1431 Posts: 7,999	i've seen quite a few inverted springs that could've been helped with anti inversion. as mentioned, if you routinely pick up wheels, get em. __________________ seven cruisers and 3 of em run and four are for sale

02-28-06, 10:36 PM	#8
agent orange IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Richmond, VA TLCA# 16545 Posts: 2,068	You dont want them to be so short that you run out of shackle travel before the spring fully compresses, but there is a point of diminishing return after that as far as function goes. Oh, and they can definitly be too long (the ones MAF puts with their 4 inch suspension kits fall into that category IMHO). __________________ 1988 FJ 62- SUA, 1" body, 34" trxus mudders, 2.5" exhaust, 27spl Longs/Pig Inners, 4.88s, torsen LSD/lockright, 4runner brakes, other random stuff... 1986 pickup- 2wd, 22r, 4 speed, DD oh, and custom tree damage

02-28-06, 09:40 PM	#6
beaufort-fj60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,202	explain this some more... what is too short? factory length or shorter than factoty.

02-28-06, 10:39 PM	#9
lowenbrau IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Calgary AB TLCA# 5513 Posts: 2,461	Mace is almost right. Where the theory breaks down is when a rig is climbing out of a hole and bumps the shackels into the bank while the suspension is unloaded. It happens all the time around here when you are breaking ice on river crossings. If you have an over length shackel or spring then you have about a 50/50 chance of bending the spring at the fisrt spring clamp when you invert. Some method of inversion proofing will save having to buy new leafs. __________________ Rocky Mountain Land Cruiser Association TLCA # 5513 '87BJ74, '86BJ70, '78FJ45, '53M100, '90M101cdn I support our Troopies

03-01-06, 05:00 AM	#10
beaufort-fj60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,202	I've been "acquiring" a lift in pieces and the shackle length is something I an not sure about. sofar I have the "habu"/terrain tamer rears leafs the heavy version and stock length rear anti-inversion. I've got the OME light fronts and stock length anti-inversions. How much longer/larger diameter on the arc are aftermarket springs? is it up and out (higher the lift the further apart the shackle eyes are) will stock length shackles create odd ball angles with the aftermarket springs?

03-01-06, 04:30 PM	#12
High Desert IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 1,034	Don't you weld "reverse" shackles on the front? And does not OME offer them too? Just to throw more fuel on this fire. __________________ 1984 FJ60, 102k miles, OME med/heavy, BFG/AT 33X10.5 on Stock Wheels, ARB Bullbar W/Warn 8274, Tuffy Console.

03-01-06, 05:27 PM	#13
beaufort-fj60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,202	i think the "shackle reversal kit" is a system that basically moves the "working" shackle to the rear and the stationary pin to the front. factory setup is pin in back and "working" shackle up front. and yes you weld the stationary pin holder on the front.

03-01-06, 05:39 PM	#14
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	Exactly, a SR flips the spring around so that the frame end of the spring is at the front and the shackle end of the spring is behind the front axle. The only reason I acutally like SR is if you are smacking the shackles hard enough to bend a spring. Then you make a nice smooth rap for the item you are hitting by doing a SR. A shackle only need to be as long as it does. there is no magic number for the length. It is whatever length is required to fully utilize the working arc of the leaf spring as it extends and compresses. Another fix to springs that tend to invert is to move the shackle hanger. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-02-06, 12:09 AM	#15
High Desert IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 1,034	Thanks for the reversal explanation. didn't mean to Highjack, I use to think that I would do a reversal when I go OME, However I'm not really going to get even near crawling type trails in my rig..So the SR would be overkill, right? __________________ 1984 FJ60, 102k miles, OME med/heavy, BFG/AT 33X10.5 on Stock Wheels, ARB Bullbar W/Warn 8274, Tuffy Console.

03-03-06, 12:45 AM	#16
loomis IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, QLD. Australia. Posts: 39	I recently inverted one of my 2" extended shackles...no major dramas, but hell it made a noise when it happened. Last edited by loomis; 04-24-06 at 03:10 AM.

03-03-06, 08:20 AM	#18
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	Aint those anti inversion shackles??? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-03-06, 04:29 PM	#20
loomis IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, QLD. Australia. Posts: 39	silly question (I ask these all the time, get used to it) but what difference does it make which they they go? Are you guys saying that the shackle is upside down (top to bottom) or upside down meaning the triangulated side should be facing the front instead of the back....or both?

03-03-06, 05:37 PM	#21
3puttcop IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Florida TLCA# 15317 Posts: 323	When thier installed correctly they don't do that! __________________ 87' FJ60, perfect body, BDS lift, mud tires, hula wiggler. 07' FJ Cruiser AllPro suspension & bumper 33/MTZ's “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy” Benjamin Franklin

03-03-06, 05:55 PM	#22
djawahir Suffering from V8 Madness Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 402	The instruction on installation leave a lot to the imagination. At least you bolted the spring on tight! __________________ I have the uncanny ability to make things harder than they really are. V8 swap progress: 5.3L Vortec mounted. Plumbing lines!

03-03-06, 07:55 PM	#24
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	I love the fact that the first pic someone posted is of an antiinversion shackle that has gone inverted __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-03-06, 08:33 PM	#25
agent orange IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Richmond, VA TLCA# 16545 Posts: 2,068	You did better than the fourwheeler guys did, they had theirs on upside-down AND backwards. They truly are experts in their field. __________________ 1988 FJ 62- SUA, 1" body, 34" trxus mudders, 2.5" exhaust, 27spl Longs/Pig Inners, 4.88s, torsen LSD/lockright, 4runner brakes, other random stuff... 1986 pickup- 2wd, 22r, 4 speed, DD oh, and custom tree damage

03-04-06, 02:59 PM	#27
loomis IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brisbane, QLD. Australia. Posts: 39	How would having the shackle the other way around stop it from doing this...No matter which way you have it, it could still end up like that....couldnt it....explain this for me please.

03-04-06, 03:02 PM	#28
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a bolt missing. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-04-06, 05:27 PM	#29
tclndcrz IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bozeman MT TLCA# 14430 Posts: 933	here is a pic showing an anti-inversion shackle properly installed. there are 3 bolts. one of the bolts will hit the frame and stop the shackle from inverting. in the pic you can see the lower two bolts. the top bolt is behind the exhaust. i circled the shackle in the picture. btw this pic is from today