[lovetoski]

Like most of you, I was really unhappy with my stock headlamps. After lots of reading on this site, I upgraded the harness (slee) and the lamps (hella E-code). Huge improvement. But...big but...while driving on dark windy mtn roads, the hella's had a problem. I could drive comfortably at 50-55 mph, but the cut-off was so sharp that any faster and I was driving outside my reaction times. Since many of my dark stormy drives are late nights in the mountains (when I'm tired) I have a particular concern about good lighting. The hella's were a huge improvement, but not good enough.

I noticed a few posts about Cibie's, and also some positive comments about Daniel Stern. So I gave him a call....here's his response:

Start Quote from Daniel Stern
Take a look at
http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/Isocomparo.html

These are isocandela diagrams for Cibie and Hella 7" round headlamp units.

If you're not familiar with isocandela diagrams, these will look like
random squiggles and lines. Think of it as a topographic or "contour" map
of the correctly-aimed beam pattern. Each differently-colored line
represents the threshold of a particular intensity level, with the color
legend located to the right of the isocandela diagram. The diagram is
plotted on a chart calibrated in degrees. Straight ahead is represented by
(0,0), that is, zero degrees up-down and zero degrees left-right.

To get a mental approximation of the units and amounts under discussion
here:

Parking lamp: About 60 to 100 candela
Front turn signal: About 500 candela
Glaring high-beam daytime running lamps (e.g. Saturn): 8000 candela

The parameters to pay attention to are the luminous flux (total amount of
light within the beam), the maximum intensity and its location within the
beam relative to the axial point (H,V) -- the less downward/rightward
offset, the longer the seeing distance -- stray light outside the beam
pattern and effective beam width (contained within the dark-turquoise 500
candela contour)

Things to notice about these two diagrams:

(1) The Cibie produces a much wider beam pattern than the Hella. The 1000
candela line of the Cibie's beam pattern extends from 25 degrees Left to
25 degrees right, while the 1000 candela line of the Hella extends from 18
degrees Left to 20 degrees Right. At a distance of 50 feet from the car,
this means the 1000 candela-and-brighter portion of the Hella's beam is
10.5 feet narrower than that of the Cibie. The 300 cd contour of the
Cibie's pattern is *far* wider, extending from 43 degrees Left to 50
degrees Right, compared to 26 Left to 25 Right for the Hella. This means
the overall useful width of the beam pattern at 25 feet from the car, as
perceived by the driver, will be 40.7 feet for the Cibie and 22.3 feet for
the Hella.

2) The total luminous flux (overall amount of light) within the beam
pattern is 695 lumens for the Cibie, 463 lumens for the Hella - the Cibie
is 50.1% more efficient. (the TLF data is listed as "Luminous Flux" in the
readings up above the isocandela diagram)

The high beams for these two lamps (isocandela diagrams not yet scanned
in) are very similar in overall performance and amount of light -- the
critical difference is that the Cibie's high beam hot spot is located
closer to (0,0) and closer to its low beam hot spot. The Hella's high beam
and low beam hot spots are separated by a fairly large vertical amount,
such that setting the lows where they belong results in most of the high
beam light going up in the trees, but pulling the high beams down so they
send light straight ahead puts the low beams 10 feet in front of the car.

End Quote from Daniel Stern

I purchased the Cibie's. Installed them with 100/90 Narva bulbs. (I tried lots of different bulbs with the Hella's. Lots. ) Did 500 miles in the mountains with them this week, some of which was dark, rainy, late at night (and I was tired). Net result is a huge improvement over the hella's. (Anybody want to buy some hella E-code lamps?) Driving was far easier, less stressful, greater vis. Only neg was when the road rose in front of me (aka a hill) the cutt-off of the lens made for a blind section of the road (the section of the road that was "above" the cut-off). This is a small complaint. All in all, these are a fantastic lamp. The hella's were good, and had a nice high beam. The cibie's are awesome, and t he high-beams are astonishing.

Don't even think about buying Hella's. Only buy the Cibie's.

If you have the Hella's already, and drive challenging roads at night, buy the Cibie's right away. It's that big an improvement. I can't tell you how big a difference it was at 11:30 at night (after a 5:00am wake up) to have great visibility in a windy rough surface moutain road, with potential black ice...

Usually I'm kind of lazziez-faire about what people do, but in this case I'm going to be very directive:
Use an upgraded wiring harness (slee or similar).
Use Cibie e-code lamps.
Use 100/90 Narvabulbs.
Aim correctly (refer to tech section on Daniel Stern website)

Drive safely friends.

[humper99]

I've been running the Hella E-Codes for about a year now in my 60 and have to say I love them. Never tried the Cibe's so I can't compare but my Hella's are 3 times better than the stockers. I also didn't upgrade my wiring because the PIAA Extreme White bulbs I choose didn't overload the factory wiring and are the brightest bulbs I've ever seen short of true HID's.

I'm trying to remmber back when I researched different lights and Choose the Hella's but I think they may have had to different types. One for left hand drive vehicles and one for right hand drive. You may have got the wroung ones.

My Hella's have a very distinct cutoff to the left so as not to shine oncoming traffic but they light up the right shoulder and road signs very well. They reach out a good distance on low beams and even cast a small amount of light on overhead signs. On high beam they point pretty much straight out with only a slight cutoff to the left and cast light a long distance.

I don't do much mountain driving hear in Michigan, but If I did I would prolly had suggested adding dedicated offroad lights to the front for use in the secondary mountain roads.

I just noticed that your rig is lifted. This may change your results from my stock height in the way you need to aim the lights.

[lovetoski]

Humper99,

I have the right-hand drive hella's, and they are aimed correctly (there's an adjustment you make for the height of the lamp, so a lifted truck, or a Freightliner, can easily have correctly adjusted lamps).

The problem is most acute on wet roads. Apparently wet pavement "soaks" up light. It's especially apparent when going from dry to wet patches on the same surface. Asphalt is way worse than cement.

Turns out that Hella's don't put as much light on the road as Cibie's. The isocandela diagram makes this very clear.

I thought my Hella's were a huge improvement over stock also. My point is that the Cibie's are an equal jump up in visibility.

[Landpimp]

Hella OK, IPF better, Cibie better yet.......OEM(Kioto) E-codes....the best (these, with the yellow bulbs) were stock(as required by law) in french cruisers untill the early 80's I think.



I have Narva 90/100 yellow bulbs in mine.......ONLY place on the planet to find these odd shaped H-4's in clear or amber is Daniel Stern.... (I stocked up)

the yellow is GREAT in the rain, snow, fog, they also make other cars on the road notice you(folks are running yellow in motorbikes for this reason)

[ballardcruiser]

Great write-up,Doug, as usual! Definitely a lot to consider here.

Slightly off-topic, but does the Slee wiring harness for an 80 series work on a 60 series? Or did they once offer a 60 series one that has since been discontinued? I only see the 80 series now on their site...

[lovetoski]

Originally Posted by ballardcruiser

Great write-up,Doug, as usual! Definitely a lot to consider here.

Slightly off-topic, but does the Slee wiring harness for an 80 series work on a 60 series? Or did they once offer a 60 series one that has since been discontinued? I only see the 80 series now on their site...

I purchased a 60 series harness from them. I found out about it on this forum, not their website. Maybe give them a call to see if they still offer it?

[polarweasel]

Rallylights.com makes a nice harness for 60s, at a good price. I'm happy with mine, and their service is great. Email or call them and they'll hook you up.

Interesting about the Cibie lenses. I really like my Hellas (with 55/100 bulbs), but I might have to upgrade at some point and see the difference for myself...

[crawlin60]

Have had the Cibie e-codes since 2001, love them to death. I've put in some 60k miles since and have one beef with them, and it's that one lamp took a rock impact and chipped, then got a side-to-side crack. Which is not the lamp's fault, really. I've driven alongside other 60s on I-15 and have been reminded of the pathetic beam pattern of the old stuff. I've wondered about hellas, but looking at the light dispersion patterns in Stern's picture, I recognize the pattern immediately as that of my Cibies. And I only put a 55/60 H4 Osram, being the chicken that I am. On wet, new asphalt (a light sucking black hole of a surface) at night, it's where the cost of these lamps really made sense to me.

[CaliCruiser]

Whats the source you guys used to buy the cibies. Im definetly looking forward to this upgrade. oh, and also what about contacting daniel stern._Dylan

[lovetoski]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Whats the source you guys used to buy the cibies.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by Landpimp

Hella OK, IPF better, Cibie better yet.......OEM(Kioto) E-codes....the best (these, with the yellow bulbs) were stock(as required by law) in french cruisers untill the early 80's I think.



I have Narva 90/100 yellow bulbs in mine.......ONLY place on the planet to find these odd shaped H-4's in clear or amber is Daniel Stern.... (I stocked up)

the yellow is GREAT in the rain, snow, fog, they also make other cars on the road notice you(folks are running yellow in motorbikes for this reason)

I've never heard anything about these lamps before. Where did you get the lenses? From Dan or did you just get the bulbs only from him?

[dogboy2]

Originally Posted by polarweasel

Rallylights.com makes a nice harness for 60s, at a good price. I'm happy with mine, and their service is great. Email or call them and they'll hook you up.

Interesting about the Cibie lenses. I really like my Hellas (with 55/100 bulbs), but I might have to upgrade at some point and see the difference for myself...

IPF also makes a harness for the 60's available through ARB in Seattle. Isolates the headlights on their own circuit and draws juice via a relay directly from the battery.

-db-

[Benji]

I have the Hella H4 E-code 60/55W lamps with stock wiring.

It's definately an improvement over stock and it fit my budget.

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/7in.asp

[jefferson-mo]

Daniel Stern also makes a kit to build your own headlight/relay harness for 2 and 4 light systems.................it's the properly wired relays that make the biggest difference in light output and efficiency



I've always had Hellas in all my cars but did actually notice something not quite right with the beam pattern and wasn't sure why


I guess I'll upgrade to Cibie' when I can...prolly 1st of the year............

Another thing I've been thinking of doing is upgrading(?) to a 4 round headlight system a'la 1980 Corolla.........just a thought to tailor my headlights even more

think of it...55/100w lows and 130w highs.........sweet

That's what I have in my Corona(this is how I thought of it) and with these bulbs and relays it's daylight at night with the highs on

[CaliCruiser]

Lovetoski-

nice thread, thanks for the link.

[Moby]

I had a great experience with Daniel Stern as well. Although I'm running Hella H4/H1s in my '62 I bought his do it yourself kit (and then spent quite a bit of time backwards engineering the 62 wiring). Talking to Daniel you know you are talking to someone who takes his products and his specialty seriously and has a tremendous wealth of knowledge. I'll probably upgrade to the Cibies at some point this winter when I run out of the other cruiser projects I'm working on

[Moby]

Oh, an upgraded alternater that can actually push ~14 volts in conjunction with an upgraded wiring harness really helps as well (and upgraded alt to battery wiring). I never got more than ~13.5 volts from my stock rebuilt unit and even that wasn't until ~1300 rpms. Now I get 14 volts at 800 rpms.

[Front Range 4x4]

Originally Posted by Moby

I had a great experience with Daniel Stern as well. Although I'm running Hella H4/H1s in my '62 I bought his do it yourself kit (and then spent quite a bit of time backwards engineering the 62 wiring). Talking to Daniel you know you are talking to someone who takes his products and his specialty seriously and has a tremendous wealth of knowledge. I'll probably upgrade to the Cibies at some point this winter when I run out of the other cruiser projects I'm working on

I'm considering upgrading my 62's lights as well. Would you recomend Stern's DIY kit or would you go with something else if you were doing it again. Which Cibies would you suggest from your experience?

[Landpimp]

found em on Ebay, they were actaully someones from Mud.

Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60

I've never heard anything about these lamps before. Where did you get the lenses? From Dan or did you just get the bulbs only from him?

[Moby]

Originally Posted by cxs

I'm considering upgrading my 62's lights as well. Would you recomend Stern's DIY kit or would you go with something else if you were doing it again. Which Cibies would you suggest from your experience?

I'm not aware of a pre made wiring kit for the 62 although I remember that suvlights was working on one at one time (not sure if they ever got it right). There is a good diagram of how to build your own in the FAQ. I scratch built mine before I saw that diagram but it is effectively the same as that diagram (I think mine is a bit simpler but everyone likes their own design better )

I like the Stern kit mainly for the dual output (87) terminals on the relays. This means one less splice. Not a big deal but kind of nice. You can get these relays separately through http://www.rallylights.com as well. I also like the spring loaded headlight sockets.

The kit does use solderable terminals. Everyone's got their own opinion on solder. I used to solder everything but I'm currently moving to milspec/aircraft solderless crimps (AMP PIDG). The kit also uses non ATO/ATC fuses. The fuses holders are a nice inline style with screw terminals but it does mean carrying a separate type of fuse.