Turbo

Mace · 08-30-05, 08:55 AM

My current one is a Full T04.

But the next one will either be a hybrid T3/T4 or just a T3.

They will spool up faster

dacicci · 08-30-05, 09:47 PM

not subject related but you said you have a holley to 2f adapter plate send me shipping info and price and i will send you a money order.

rdnnkd@excite.com

sportbiker929 · 08-31-05, 07:19 AM

I think he made one for his turbo application

Mace · 08-31-05, 09:51 AM

Actually I do have a couple of the adapter plates that allow you to bolt a 2 barrell Holly to a 2F.

I'll hit you offline.

Tapage · 08-31-05, 12:16 PM

very interesant .. but you plan to boost the turbo over 14 PSI .. ?

Mace · 08-31-05, 12:16 PM

No, over 14 psi would kill the longevity of the motor.

dacicci · 08-31-05, 01:09 PM

thanks using it for a motacraft 2150 a great carb for the buck

cosmo · 09-10-05, 06:20 PM

Mace, I'm looking into doing a single large or small dual turbo with propane conversion for my FJ60. Any sugestions, do's or do not's you can offer before I dive in would be great. Also, any guess on what your getting per gallon in your 40? Thanks

Mace · 09-10-05, 10:59 PM

Single T03/t04 would probably be best.

Mileage with the propane on my 40 is not the best indicator. Most of my tril rides take hours and are a bit over a mile long.

The 60 will be a better evaluator..

propane do's... Buy new.. Period..

If you set up your motor to optimize the propane you will not lose mileage or power.

My 40 had 142 RW hp with an old ass motor (over 160K but I am not sure how much) and no mods but the turbo (also through a 14 bolt 2 mini tcases and a SM420)
A new slightly high performance 2F in a 40 with similar gearing and tires (at the time) pulled a 85ish hp....

60 extra HP in a old motor compared to a new motor with performance mods is a nice thing.

WALoeIII · 09-10-05, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl33py

ok - total noob. I understand how the turbo itself works (i think), by increasing airflow - but what's the waste gate for? and how do you adjust the amt of boost?

Quickie turbo charging lesson. There is a fan. This fan is powered by the exhaust. This fan forces air into the engine. More air + more fuel (easy to get more fuel) = more power. Turbos use "free" energy to power them, you are using the exhaust. The downside with turbos is they require exaust to be "spooled" up, so if you are idling you aren't making much boost, infact you are hurting your HP at low RPMs because you are decreasing your exhaust flow. However, once the exhaust gets going fast enough to push the turbo to the point that the boost advantage overcomes the constriction disadvantage you are now getting your "free" power. The time it takes for the turbo system to get to this point is referred to turbo lag. Big turbos can make MASSIVE amounts of boost, but it will take a lot to spool them up - they have a lot of lag. Smaller turbos spool quickly, but do not create as much boost. You size the turbo based on where you want it to start providing boost, and how much boost you want. Almost all properly sized turbos will produce too much boost at wide-open-throttle, this is where you need a wastegate so you don't explode your engine. The wastegate redirects exhaust around the turbo so you can get up to say 14psi or whatever is the max you want to apply to your engine.

A quick example. Your 2F redline is 4k RPMs. Now you probably want your boost at about 1500, since this is the bottom of the powerband. So you size your turbo so it provides about 6psi at 1500 RPMs, then by 2500 (top of your powerband) its producing say 14psi of boost. More than 14psi damages the engine, so at this point the waste gate opens and the turbo maintains 14psi of boost all the way to redline. You shift and you loose your boost (if you are running a blow off valve you don't loose your turbo's spin) and it must be built back up as you increase RPMs again. A well designed turbo system will use a recirculating blow off valve (no whoosh on shifts

) so the turbo will still be spinning and producing boost, this boost will get put back into the exhaust to keep the turbo at the same speed (minus the bit it looses from bearing friction). An intercooler cools the air coming from the turbo (its hot, its powered by exhaust!) making it more dense. If you don't run a blow off, when you shift the air the turbo is pushing is suddenly stopped and now pushing the turbo backwards. This effect can range from minimal, to extreme depending on your engine setup.

I'm not really sure how clear that was but I hope it helps.

Fisho · 09-11-05, 12:00 AM

Exactly!

cosmo · 09-11-05, 12:34 AM

Mace, Who's your source for the conversion parts? I was looking into the T03/t04, sounds nice and $$ new. Any cost effective (cheep) sources for it? How close are you on the 60 project? You should do a write up on it with pictures.

WALoeIII, That cleared up alot for me as I know just about d__k about turbo's at the moment.

Toyota, Not such a good feel'in at $3.16 but I'm not giving up. Thanks for the help guys

Soulfly · 09-25-05, 04:04 PM

Hello all!

I'm new to the forums here but have had a few 40's in the past (1 was fully built for expedition travel of which I took it from Colorado all the way down to David Panama where I then had it flown to Columbia to then extensively travel South America - whole trip took right under 5 years!).

I am currently in the process of buying a fairly built 60 that has the stock motor with 210k on it. So before I do an engine swap I have been planning to equip it with a turbo setup...

I see you guys are recommending the Garrett T03 & T04's or a hybrid of the two... I started searching egay and there seems to be several different models of each...

I am assuming I want the plain Garrett T-3 or T-4?
What are the benefits of running a hybrid of the 2?
What else will I need other then the turbo that I could possibly get off egay as well?
Would it be possible to mount the waste gate in cab as a few of the factory VW's come? I think that feature would be worth the trouble/extra cost unless it is just crazy expensive to achieve!

Many thanks in advance for your time and also any information you may provide!!

-Josh
www.chamresearch.com
www.justbugs.com

CruisinGA · 09-25-05, 04:36 PM

the t3/t04 spools quicker, but with a lower limit of max boost.

smaller exhaust turbine on a larger intake turbine=quicker spool

WALoeIII · 09-25-05, 05:08 PM

Anyone have any numbers on what this does to fuel economy and power? If I could get ~225 hp and not really hurt my fuel economy too bad, could be a great move. Obviously I'm dreaming but hey!

Mace · 09-25-05, 07:28 PM

Big hint, a turbo puts MORE fuel into your rig..

Chances are your economy will go down

Tapage · 09-26-05, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulfly

Hello all!

I'm new to the forums here but have had a few 40's in the past (1 was fully built for expedition travel of which I took it from Colorado all the way down to David Panama where I then had it flown to Columbia to then extensively travel South America - whole trip took right under 5 years!).

when you came to Panamá . ? only to David city in Chiriquí .. you never arrive to Panamá city . ..

Gurr · 10-13-09, 05:34 PM

Whatever happened to the pics that were supposed to get posted...I'm sorta interested in this mod.

landcruiserjunky · 10-13-09, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurr

Whatever happened to the pics that were supposed to get posted...I'm sorta interested in this mod.

hmmm....

sl33py · 10-13-09, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurr

Whatever happened to the pics that were supposed to get posted...I'm sorta interested in this mod.

Old thread revival "Gold star" of the week!

Mace · 10-13-09, 09:03 PM

lol

There is another whole thread that has the pics in it.

Gurr · 10-14-09, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl33py

Old thread revival "Gold star" of the week!

Thank you, thank you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

lol

There is another whole thread that has the pics in it.

Who's thread was it? I'll try lookin through yours again, but some info would be nice...

Gurr · 10-14-09, 01:37 PM

I found another thread that sort of put me off the idea...when this guy mentioned this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fliphkd778

I came close, most of the info is in the 40-55 tech section. I purchased the turbo and most of the supporting parts, but came to the conclusion that the land cruiser is meant for reliability/durability; I would be better off with a rebuild. An aftermarket turbo generally doesn't compare to the reliability of a naturally aspirated setup. In order to turbo a 2f, fuel injection is a must.

Currently, the 2f carb needs to be heated to provide a good a/f mixture. I think placing a turbo between the intake and carb would cause fuel to pool up in the turbo and cause poor running conditions. Placing the turbo before the carb would be even more difficult; a tuning and fuel management mess.

Someone on here did it to his 2fe(?) 40 series. I image he'll post up soon.

Still can't find your pics though.

LandBruiser69 · 10-15-09, 04:23 PM

MACE Have you done any more with your turbo upgrade? I have an 88 FJ62. If I paid you would you make me a bolt on turbo kit? Let me know if you can and how much... thanks.

jettaglxdriver · 10-16-09, 03:03 PM

I have turbo charged my 95 Jetta with a VR6 with a T04B and run stand alone engine management. One fueling option is to get a low end stand alone engine management and a throttle body and go TBI with your turbo. That would make tuning more reliable especially if your rigs if they ever experience altitude change. You need to tap a good oil source like a tee fitting in a oil pressure sender port and have a clear unobstructed path back to the oil pan no flat spots or puddling but a downward fall the whole way so it does not ever back up. Oil flow in your turbo is critical. You should also run a blow off and make sure you have control of your waste gate. Via a manual boost controller or what I recommend is an electronic boost controller. With an electronic boost controller you can adjust your gain as you approach your set boost point and have the gate open right when you want it to instead of slowing opening until it reaches the set point slowing the spool up time. Corky Bells Maximum boost is a must read if you are building a turbo system I have read my copy a few times.

Your turbo trim should be as stated above on these engines where you are hitting boots by 1500 and approaching max by 2500. If you boost later you will have very noticable turbo lag and have a hell of a time controlling it when offroad.

Mace · 10-16-09, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jettaglxdriver

I have turbo charged my 95 Jetta with a VR6 with a T04B and run stand alone engine management. One fueling option is to get a low end stand alone engine management and a throttle body and go TBI with your turbo. That would make tuning more reliable especially if your rigs if they ever experience altitude change. You need to tap a good oil source like a tee fitting in a oil pressure sender port and have a clear unobstructed path back to the oil pan no flat spots or puddling but a downward fall the whole way so it does not ever back up. Oil flow in your turbo is critical. You should also run a blow off and make sure you have control of your waste gate. Via a manual boost controller or what I recommend is an electronic boost controller. With an electronic boost controller you can adjust your gain as you approach your set boost point and have the gate open right when you want it to instead of slowing opening until it reaches the set point slowing the spool up time. Corky Bells Maximum boost is a must read if you are building a turbo system I have read my copy a few times.

Your turbo trim should be as stated above on these engines where you are hitting boots by 1500 and approaching max by 2500. If you boost later you will have very noticable turbo lag and have a hell of a time controlling it when offroad.

Sort of...

TBI in a draw through setup would be simple and effective.
Draw through, no BOV is needed.
TBI won't need a super complex engine management system. Megasquirt would be fine.
Boost control is up to you. The proper spring in the wastegate works perfectly.
There is no problem controlling turbo boost off road. Remember that a turbo is load driven. When you are in low range, you will almost never generate boost.

candograge · 10-31-09, 02:01 PM

Hey Mace great post !! Was wanting to ask a simple question ?What is your set up from and it does appear to be a turbo and exaust pipe from donnor vehical and if so which one ?
i may have missed it in the post but could you say it again . thanks
As i have a 40 and a 60 that are on target for this mod!!

Mace · 10-31-09, 03:10 PM

It's completely custom.

CruisinFJ60 · 10-31-09, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

Sort of...

TBI in a draw through setup would be simple and effective.
Draw through, no BOV is needed.
TBI won't need a super complex engine management system. Megasquirt would be fine.
Boost control is up to you. The proper spring in the wastegate works perfectly.
There is no problem controlling turbo boost off road. Remember that a turbo is load driven. When you are in low range, you will almost never generate boost.

after re reading my own post i wrote WG instead of BOV as i was thinking one doing another.

even on a blow through EFI design a ::BLOW OFF VALVE:: is not required.
Good example...
how many factory turbo vehicle do you know that have an actual blow off valve... I personally cant think of any including the new EVO10. Unless you are running high boost you dont really have to Have a BOV, it may help the turbo last a little bit longer but i would doubt anything noticeable in a 0-15 psi boost range.

On my dodge i run 45psi and no BOV and still have yet to hear the turbo bark when you let all the way out of it at full boost. now some of you are going to say "well its a diesel its totally different"... well your right in the sence it can handle much more boost, but in the sense of a BOV all the same rules still apply. BOV if for turbo life no engine life, it will not make your vehicle faster, it will not mae it run better, it wont produce more horsepower ect.

Landcruisin'60 · 10-31-09, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CruisinFJ60

even on a blow through EFI design a waste gate is not required.
Good example...
how many factory turbo vehicle do you know that have an actual blow off valve... I personally cant think of any including the new EVO10. Unless you are running high boost you dont really have to Have a BOV, it may help the turbo last a little bit longer but i would doubt anything noticeable in a 0-15 psi boost range.

On my dodge i run 45psi and no BOV and still have yet to hear the turbo bark when you let all the way out of it at full boost. now some of you are going to say "well its a diesel its totally different"... well your right in the sence it can handle much more boost, but in the sense of a BOV all the same rules still apply. BOV if for turbo life no engine life, it will not make your vehicle faster, it will not mae it run better, it wont produce more horsepower ect.

I'm not sure why you think you dont need a wastegate. The waste gates purpose is to regulate the amount of boost the turbo can build. If your target boost is say 16psi the waste gate will open so that the turbo only spins enough to generate that 16psi. If you didnt have a waste gate the exhaust gas passing through the turbo would keep spinning it and you have the possibility of generating way too much boost.

You are correct, most new cars have what are called by pass valves, or recirculating blow off valves. Basically a non-recirculating BOV just dumps the excess boost to the atmosphere, which in most cases causes the car to run rich for a second as its idling down because you just lost that air that the MAF already metered. If you recirculate that air back infront of the turbo inlet it can now circulate through the turbo again so you dont get compressor surge, this also makes it so your draw through MAF doesnt cause the engine to run rich because its still using all the metered air, instead of losing it to atmosphere with a BOV.

I think we all know why you dont get compressor surge with the diesel...it lacks something that gas engines have which causes the surge...

That being said I'm still a noob when it comes to turbos so not all of that may be correct.