[dogboy2]

O.K., how tired is this horse?

Before the flaming begins, I've done my search function homework but couldn't seem to find the answer to this question regarding the 4Runner/T100 caliper upgrade:

How big are the pistons in these? 40mm? 45mm? And they are a 4 piston design, yes?

One more while you're here:

Although several years of larger bore master cylinders will work (mini-truck and '80 series), I was unable to find concensus as to which model & year matched up most closely with the existing brake lines and required the least amount of brake line replumbing/rebending?

Any nuggets of wisdom from those already converted?

Many thanks,
-dogboy- '87 FJ60

[meluhha]

Dogboy....I believe the calipers in question are 40mm (does it really matter--they're bigger!) and they are of the four piston variety. Don't try to rebuild them, as toyota wants to do it themselves (for quality control...can't argue with that) so they charge a ton of money for the pistons and seals and a reasonable amount for rebuilt calipers.

Look for anything with the 1" stamp on the side (T100 {4x4 or 1 ton only}, 4Runner, even a Supra). Just go to the junk yard and pay $10 bucks or so. You'll have to bend one line a little....just go slow. Otherwise it bolts right up. However, I could not get the brake light to work with the new wires (gave up). The light still works, but not as a warning light for when I'm low on fluid (i.e. the parking brake still lights it up.) I just taped it up.

I did this about two months ago and it really helps! Plus the addition of SS brake lines and DBA rotors (all from MAF). If you have any more Q's post up.

Here's some pics:

Where I shaved the dust cover (top and bottom)...


The trimmed wear bar on the caliper (no worky with it)...


You must grind...


The finished product...


Cheers,
Matt

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by meluhha

Don't try to rebuild them, as toyota wants to do it themselves (for quality control...can't argue with that) so they charge a ton of money for the pistons and seals and a reasonable amount for rebuilt calipers.

I must argue this (well not the pricing. I never asked how much a rebuild would cost by the dealer ). I pulled a pair of 4Runner calipers from Nix99 back home and rebuilt them. It's a PITA to pop the cylinders out (it REALLY doesn't take much air pressure at all!), but after that, the rebuild is a piece of cake. I didn't use the little packet of lube they include in the kit though, I just lubed the cylinder walls with brake fluid. Something I learned from working on our jets, is to always lubricate a seal with the fluid it's meant to be sealing. The calipers work GREAT, and the upgrade is well worth it. I can't wait to see how well they work with the DBA 4000s that I'll be putting on when I do the knuckle rebuild

[dogboy2]

mmmmmmm grinding GOOOOD!! flying sparks GOOOOD!! daddy like

Matt,

Great pics and most appreciated Very clean install with the modified backing plate - nicely done, nicely done... Love the grinding pic -- you grinding the backing plate there or what?

Any specific year on the T100 calipers and MC that work best? From the sounds of your reply, I take it you got the rebuilt calipers from Toyota and not Napa or some other 3rd party source? Did you use the aussie brake pads from Man-a-Fre too or go with Toyota?

Just trying to plan my parts list so I know who to hassle for what piece,
Thanks,
-dogboy- '87 FJ60, soon to be stopping like a mofo'

[meluhha]

Originally Posted by Spook50

I must argue this (well not the pricing. I never asked how much a rebuild would cost by the dealer )...

Spook...I didn't mean it wasn't easy. Toy wanted like $15 per piston (mine were rusted), plus the cost of the rebuild. I think total I was quoted $117 (maybe that's off a little--too many prices in my head). For my money it was easier to just buy new {rebuilt} calipers. With the added benefit of being rebuilt by Toy to their specs (which makes us all like cruisers, no?) Plus, it is my understanding that under NO circumstances are you to split the casing (leaks like a sieve if you do).

BTW: Thanks for serving in the armed forces my friend...we all appreciate you (no matter what Jane Fonda says!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4717241.stm

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by meluhha

Spook...I didn't mean it wasn't easy. Toy wanted like $15 per piston (mine were rusted), plus the cost of the rebuild. I think total I was quoted $117 (maybe that's off a little--too many prices in my head). For my money it was easier to just buy new {rebuilt} calipers. With the added benefit of being rebuilt by Toy to their specs (which makes us all like cruisers, no?) Plus, it is my understanding that under NO circumstances are you to split the casing (leaks like a sieve if you do).

BTW: Thanks for serving in the armed forces my friend...we all appreciate you (no matter what Jane Fonda says!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4717241.stm

Oh okay, I thought you were thinking it was hard to do
But most definately, split the casing and you're screwed. I was temped to with my factory rotors when I pulled them off, but thought better of it (nice to have spares handy for a while).

And as far as Jane Fonda: FUCK THAT BITCH. When she's dead I'll piss on her grave, and I'm dead serious.

[meluhha]

Originally Posted by dogboy2

mmmmmmm grinding GOOOOD!! flying sparks GOOOOD!! daddy like

Matt,

Great pics and most appreciated Very clean install with the modified backing plate - nicely done, nicely done... Love the grinding pic -- you grinding the backing plate there or what?

Any specific year on the T100 calipers and MC that work best? From the sounds of your reply, I take it you got the rebuilt calipers from Toyota and not Napa or some other 3rd party source? Did you use the aussie brake pads from Man-a-Fre too or go with Toyota?

Just trying to plan my parts list so I know who to hassle for what piece,
Thanks,
-dogboy- '87 FJ60, soon to be stopping like a mofo'

Yep...that's me grinding away. It was pretty fun...sparks flying...cats running in fear!!!

I got the calipers and MC off a rusted ’96 T100, 4x4, V6 truck for around 20 bucks. I then took the calipers to my toyota dealer and gave it to them as a core (Core charge is $20 each...so I made out alright) and bought rebuilt ones ($80 each maybe). The rebuilt ones came in a horrible gold {bling, bling} color, that I just had to paint over (caliper paint kit - $15 at O'Reilly's). I also went with factory T100 brake pads (with grinding off the wear bar).

If you plan on doing the DBA rotors too then heed my advice...use Toyota lug bolts ONLY!!!!!! I can't stress that enough. See this thread:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/53524-newbie-dumb-rotor-question.html

Cheers,
Matt

[dogboy2]

Originally Posted by meluhha

I also went with factory T100 brake pads (with grinding off the wear bar).

If you plan on doing the DBA rotors too then heed my advice...use Toyota lug bolts ONLY!!!!!! I can't stress that enough. See this thread:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=53524

Cheers,
Matt

those are some sage words of wisdom, spoken from the school of experience.... and since I am planning on using the DBA's, I will heed it wisely

curious, why did you need to grind off the wear bar on the new T100 pads?

-db-

[Cruzerman]

I recently did the 4runner caliper upgrade on my '85 FJ60 since I had to do front brakes and rotors anyhow. Here are my results / observations:

I used '92 4runner calipers. I got these from Autozone. They were about $80 for both loaded with pads. Very inexpensive and have worked very well so far (about 5 months). No problem taking back the LC calipers for the core (core was more than the new calipers!).

I went with Brembo discs. I think these are at least as good as OEM (Brembo makes lots of racing brakes). I ordered these online and they came to a little over $100 for both (including shipping) from autopartswarehouse.com.

I had to do no grinding on the caliper or pads. I did have to cut a little off the backing plate for the new calipers to fit. I just used a dremel w/ a cut-off wheel.

I did not change the master cylinder. It seems to work fine. I will replace it when I put discs on the rear.

HTH,

Rick
Near Eugene, OR.

[KLF]

Originally Posted by Spook50

But most definately, split the casing and you're screwed.

I have rebuilt many pairs of calipers, and I've always split the caliper to make it easier. They've never leaked. Ya just have to be careful not to lose the little donut washers that seal the fluid passages between the halves.

Rebuilding calipers is always cheaper than buying new ones, as long as you don't count labor. The entire OEM seal kit that does both sides is usually less than $30.

[cruzerfetish]

I just finished this upgrade before my roadtrip last week. I used 93 4runner (V6 4X4) calipers (loaded) and 93 4runner MC. The MC I bought didn't come with a cap and I didn't realize that until I got ready to do the job. I ordered one from the local dealer (13.00?). Then I went to a couple of junk yards and found a couple of different ones that I picked up. One had electric and one didn't. I used the one without wiring. The job was really easy. I hardly had to bend any of the lines to make them fit. Just the 1/2 inch of gringing on each side of the dust shield previously mentioned. It has so much more braking power now. It was a great upgrade, considering the FJ parts would have cost more.

One other note. With Rock Crawlers no rub at all on the caliper. They just barely clear.

[meluhha]

Originally Posted by KLF

...Rebuilding calipers is always cheaper than buying new ones, as long as you don't count labor. The entire OEM seal kit that does both sides is usually less than $30.

KLF,
The kit is cheap, that's true.......but if you have to replace the pistons (mine were rusted) then it's cheaper to buy rebuilt calipers (close to the same cost anyway).

Just my 0.2 cents.



Cheers,
Matt

[meluhha]

Originally Posted by cruzerfetish

...One other note. With Rock Crawlers no rub at all on the caliper. They just barely clear.

Cruzerfetish,
What size rockcrawlers are you using (backspacing mostly)? And do you have a part #. There has been some discussion on here before about some of these not fitting right!!! I would eventually like to get some, but am holding off until I get the right specs.

Thanks,
Matt

[cruzerfetish]

Quote:
Cruzerfetish,
What size rockcrawlers are you using (backspacing mostly)? And do you have a part #. There has been some discussion on here before about some of these not fitting right!!! I would eventually like to get some, but am holding off until I get the right specs.




15X8 3.5 backspacing. Make sure they order the D-window type rock crawlers, not with round holes. They will rub even on the stock FJ60 calipers. I guess I should also mention that my rock crawlers aren't "rock crawler" brand, they are made by Unique and I got them through Discount tire.

[meluhha]

Originally Posted by cruzerfetish

...Make sure they order the D-window type rock crawlers, not with round holes...

Like this:



Unique @ Discount

If so, how do you like them?

Thanks for the info...

Matt

[dogboy2]

and the madness begins....

just ordered up a pair of rebuilt OEM calipers from my local Toyota parts guru along with the rest of the bits to completely rebuild the brake system, front & rear -- it's way past time, leaking wheel cylinders and all.....

we checked part numbers and it turns out that they are the same for early '90's 4Runner as well as mid '90's T100's, so it's proved pretty hard to miss on the calipers. Pick & Pull junkyard search begins for the MC....

Cruzerfetish, I'm running the Rockcrawlers from 4Wheel Parts but have had to use 1/4" spacers with my stock caliper setup because of clearance issues. Would be great to be able to eliminate them....what's your secret?

-dogboy- '87 FJ60

[cruzerfetish]

meluhha,

Those are the ones. When I ordered from discount I just asked them to order me some 15x8, 3.5 inch backspacing. When they showed up they were the round hole ones. I actually liked them pretty well so I told them to go ahead and put them on. Once they were done and had me back out they were rubbing the calipers and it felt like I was running over bodies as I pulled out of the bay. Long story as short as possible, a little grinding was tried and in the end the guy said he would order the right ones (d-window) and have them the next day. About 10 days later I had my wheels and new tires. I have gone out wheeling a couple of times and haven't had any problems. Just got back from a 2100 mile trip from Orlando to the outer banks to western North Carolina and back. No troubles. Look good. Haven't chipped up yet. They get an A-ok from me. especially when they are less that 50 bucks each.

dogboy2,

3.5 inch backspacing is the only "trick" I am using. As I said the round hole wheels rubbed on the stock setup, but not the d-window. I just didn't have any problems. Sorry that I don't have more of an insight for you. Well, if you end up having to buy a new MC make sure you grab a cap too. The one I got didn't come with one and by the time I figured it out it made it an extra PITA to get one. Took me 4 yards before I even found a 4runner. didn't run across a T100 all day. Maybe where you are located there will be better luck.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by KLF

I have rebuilt many pairs of calipers, and I've always split the caliper to make it easier. They've never leaked. Ya just have to be careful not to lose the little donut washers that seal the fluid passages between the halves.

Rebuilding calipers is always cheaper than buying new ones, as long as you don't count labor. The entire OEM seal kit that does both sides is usually less than $30.

Yeah I think I paid between 20 and 25 for the kit. Military discounts kick ass

I don't trust myself splitting the calipers though. With my luck I wouldn't be able to get a good seal when I put them back together. This trend could prove interesting when I get around to rebuilding my Beetle's engine...