[Southbound]

Hi All,

Just failed my CA emissions in spectacular style. Wondering if anybody can recommend someone knowledgeable about cruiser emissions (I've got an '87 fj60) in the San Francisco area? Saw a couple recommendations in the "recommend a mechanic" thread, but nothing specific to emissions.

thanks!!
Mark

[65swb45]

There are a lot of people in THIS FORUM that have BECOME knowledgeable about emissions because of their own issues. They are a GREAT place to start, and cost a lot less than a mechanic!

Post your readings for starters.
Do a search for other threads on emissions and try to make a comparison between someone elses situation and yours.

That way you'll look like your trying.

I'll bet you get a lot of good info after that.

Best

Mark A.

[Outdoor Adventure]

Share the numbers and the state limits. MUD will take it from there.

[pcperks]

I have failed emissions and pretty much rebuilt my entire CA emissions equipment from the ground up. Still working on passing, but getting there a little bit every day. The number one thing you need to do to get some good input on here though is to post up your numbers.

Here is how I posted mine to get some help with it:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...ml#post4690082

I don't know what you did before you went to the smog check, but the best thing to do is a full tune up, including oil change, air cleaner, new plugs and wires, the works. Then make sure that you have driven it and it's nice and hot before the test. They are supposed to make sure that it's at operating temperature before they run the test, but that may or may not happen. If it's not running at normal temp, it could show bad numbers.

You need any help, this is the place to turn to I have learned. Also depends on your own personal mechanical skills and if you can do the work yourself. There is enough knowledge on here that if you have a halfway decent set of tools, you can get walked through just about anything.

[Southbound]

Thanks for the replies. My registration is already expired and this is my daily driver so I really just want to take care of this asap (i.e. get it to someone who knows what they're doing). But then again advice from this forum has helped me fix all kinds of stuff, so maybe it's worth a shot.

My cruiser failed the test at 15 mph in "CO" emissions (Max= 0.79, Measured=1.67) and at 25 mph in both "CO" (Max= 1.00, measured= 2.22) and "HC" (Max=.96, measured = 118). "NO" emissions were OK in both cases.

According to the emissions manual it looks like the main systems that deal with HC and CO emissions are the air injection (air pump) and the oxidation catalyst (catalytic converter). And maybe the PCV system (manual says this system reduces "blow by gas (HC)"). The cruiser has got a relatively new cat (three years old), so I don't think it's that. I went through this two years ago in Colorado, took it to a shop and after about $500 they took mercy on me and re-rigged something or another (wish I had asked!!) temporarily. I'm thinking they must have routed the air injection system to constantly blow air into the system. Or maybe it was the PCV system. I'll use the manual to go through what steps I can to test these systems, but it's tough not being able to measure differences in emissions myself. I did a full tune-up (new wires, plugs, air filter, timing) less than 10K miles ago. Any tips would certainly be appreciated, including mechanic referals. I live literarally next door to a stealership, but taking it there would be worst case situation.

Thanks!
Mark

[2mbb]

what was the measured O2? If the measured O2 is zero or low, then it could be your air pump or the air injection system. The catalytic converter need O2 to lower the concentration of the smog gases, if there is not enough O2 then the cat can't do it's job. If you have substantial residual O2 then it might be your catalytic converter.

Don't know where you are in NorCal. Gary Kardum of Mudrak's in Sonoma used to do smog repair.

Good Luck.

[Southbound]

Huh, interesting point, that could be it. What are normal O2 numbers like? O2 at 15 mph was 0.02 and at 25 mph 0.00.

Thanks for the referrals. I'm in Palo Alto, but could do a trek to Sonoma. A few people mentioned Mudrak's in the referral thread so they must have something good going on.

[2mbb]

here are my results for the past few tests

[Nemesis Gnat]

You could try Brian at Bay Area Speed-o-motive.

He's a cruiser guy and mud member. He's also a lot closer to you in Redwood City.

(650) 216-7200
bayareaspeedomotive.com

[pcperks]

I had those low O2 numbers as well and had a bad air pump, so you might want to check that. Pull the hoses off and run the engine up and see if there is any air flow out of it.

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by 2mbb

what was the measured O2? If the measured O2 is zero or low, then it could be your air pump or the air injection system. The catalytic converter need O2 to lower the concentration of the smog gases, if there is not enough O2 then the cat can't do it's job. If you have substantial residual O2 then it might be your catalytic converter.

Don't know where you are in NorCal. Gary Kardum of Mudrak's in Sonoma used to do smog repair.

Good Luck.

Change the air filter AGAIN. A partially clogged air filter will overcome a marginal air pump's ability to pump sufficient 02 into the exhaust.

This is narrowing down quite nicely.

[praetorian]

If you want to get it to someone who will, no questions asked, get you over the hump, I suggest Gary Kardum up in Sonoma:

MCC - Mudrak Custom Cruiser

I also recommend AAA's gold membership. 3 100 mile tows per year puts him well within reach for ~$100 a year from the bay area.

One downside is he's always slammed and sometimes a bit hard to get ahold of.

Cheers,
prat

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by Southbound

My cruiser failed the test at 15 mph in "CO" emissions (Max= 0.79, Measured=1.67) and at 25 mph in both "CO" (Max= 1.00, measured= 2.22) and "HC" (Max=.96, measured = 118). "NO" emissions were OK in both cases.

According to the emissions manual it looks like the main systems that deal with HC and CO emissions are the air injection (air pump) and the oxidation catalyst (catalytic converter).

Originally Posted by Southbound

O2 at 15 mph was 0.02 and at 25 mph 0.00.

Hi Mark, it appears your next step will be to find out how to get the air injection system pumping air into the exhaust like it should. Your CAT may perform once the air is added, so first the air system. Those numbers look controllable, so if the CAT is mostly there, you should be OK. I think we can rule out the PCV for now.

Do you have time to go through the air system diagnosis? There are not that many pieces and you could reward yourself with a quick fix and some savings.

Rick

[Southbound]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for motivating me to at least give it a shot. I'll dig into the air injection system this weekend.

Mark

[Gurr]

so did it work?

I just failed a CA smog because of my HC's at idle (1144 ppm Limit:150) and my CO's at 2500 (4.05% limit: 1.2%) and idle (2.89% limit:1.2%)...My O2 is at 1% and 4% at 2500 and idle respectively.
Is that enough O2 for the CAT to work off of?

[NocalFJ60]

Originally Posted by Gurr

so did it work?

I just failed a CA smog because of my HC's at idle (1144 ppm Limit:150) and my CO's at 2500 (4.05% limit: 1.2%) and idle (2.89% limit:1.2%)...My O2 is at 1% and 4% at 2500 and idle respectively.
Is that enough O2 for the CAT to work off of?

I didn't know they test at idle anymore. I thought it was the 15 & 25 mph on the dyno. If you did fail at idle, then you can adjust the idle mixture using the lean drop method (search for it). It sounds like your CAT is over-saturated and can not keep up or it may be completely bad at this point but these numbers are too high to be just a CAT issue.

[Southbound]

No resolution yet...haven't really done much. Will post when I have more info.

[Gurr]

Originally Posted by NocalFJ60

I didn't know they test at idle anymore. I thought it was the 15 & 25 mph on the dyno. If you did fail at idle, then you can adjust the idle mixture using the lean drop method (search for it). It sounds like your CAT is over-saturated and can not keep up or it may be completely bad at this point but these numbers are too high to be just a CAT issue.

Maybe if the shop has the latest equipment which costs a lot of money and happens every couple of years...this was just with the tailpipe insert on an older machine.

It could be my cat, that's one thing I haven't replaced on it. I've decided to get a new air rail and the HAC thing that I broke recently and replace all the vacuum hoses first. then I'll adjust the carb using that method and hopefully that will solve my problems...I'll update in a week or so, thanks for the info.

[kosmic dreamer]

Man im glad they abandoned emission checks in florida.....

[Gurr]

Californaia is the smog nazi, but at least its a good cause.

[T-bones 60]

Cali smog laws are a bunch of political BS! I had a car fail because its timing "was not to spec". I had it re-timed, it then passed with almost twice the emissions as before and running like crap.

[Gurr]

sounds like mechanic flaw to me

[T-bones 60]

I work for a dealership with 30+ ASE cert mechanics. All of whom think the Cali smog laws are more political then environmental. For my car to pass it had to pump out more polution. Sounds like a political problem to me.

[ntsqd]

I just passed. They had to drop it down to a 145 Main from a 147 main to get it under on all of the numbers. Run like stripped dawgshiat now, but at least it passed! Now to get the vee-ate in within the next two years.

[Gurr]

Originally Posted by T-bones 60

I work for a dealership with 30+ ASE cert mechanics. All of whom think the Cali smog laws are more political then environmental. For my car to pass it had to pump out more polution. Sounds like a political problem to me.

Oh. That backround clears things up. I hope mine doesn't have to run like junk to pass...

To try to get thing to pass, I'm going to get a new air rail as mine has holes in it. Would this help me? I guess I should check my vacuum, I've never really checked it before and I've always wanted the vacuum gauge in the truck. Where's a good place to draw from though? I think I've heard off the manifold before...

[tigerfj60]

hi southbound I recommand you bring to someone who know about cruise like Mudrad Gary I bring my there.after that bring to smog last time I bring my fj60 to smog cost me $600 to get it passed and my cruise running like crap and they burn my emmsion board so I dont know how they make passed but cause me $$$$.

good luck

[nitro3421]

One option is always registering the vehicle in a different county within California. My FJ62 failed pretty badly before I bought it in the bay area (some of the strictest emissions standards in the state, along with LA & San Diego). I registered it in San Luis Obispo and it passed just fine. Some counties in CA dont even require smog (just a few, and who knows for how long). I realize this isn't an option for everyone, since you need an address in that county and you need to have the smog check done in that county as well. But if you have friends or family in a more rural county, this is always an easy option.

[ellington12]

to all in california who fail smog...take advantage of CAP (consumer assistance program.) every smog tech who fails a car should be informing you of this program. if they don't, ask about it. basically the state will pay up to something like $500 towards any repairs needed to get your rig to pass smog. if you read the fine print, you can also get a waiver after you've spent "x" amount of money and you still can't pass. a waiver basically means you get a 2 year free pass until your next smog check. here's the CAP link:

Consumer Assistance Program Fact Sheet

take advantage of it!

[Downey]

Ellington12 is spot on, but that's not much help for the long run unfortunately. When we were testing 1985-87 FJ60's during 1998-99 attempting to get our TBI conversion smog legal, what we discovered was that 98 percent of all emissions equipment on all test vehicles was already dead. We had rusty water pouring out of valves, valves falling apart in our hands, etc.. Some of the pieces we needed to continue the Federal Testing which were not even available any longer. We had to epoxy some pieces together just to continue testing. Most people will not have the $1.000's to replace a complete smog device, nor will the State assistance go very far. I've found that many times just installing a fresh Cat after flunking will get the rig to pass on your return visit to the tester.

[Gurr]

This made me happy.

Originally Posted by ellington12

to all in california who fail smog...take advantage of CAP (consumer assistance program.) every smog tech who fails a car should be informing you of this program. if they don't, ask about it. basically the state will pay up to something like $500 towards any repairs needed to get your rig to pass smog. if you read the fine print, you can also get a waiver after you've spent "x" amount of money and you still can't pass. a waiver basically means you get a 2 year free pass until your next smog check. here's the CAP link:

Consumer Assistance Program Fact Sheet

take advantage of it!

This made me sad.

Originally Posted by Downey

Ellington12 is spot on, but that's not much help for the long run unfortunately. When we were testing 1985-87 FJ60's during 1998-99 attempting to get our TBI conversion smog legal, what we discovered was that 98 percent of all emissions equipment on all test vehicles was already dead. We had rusty water pouring out of valves, valves falling apart in our hands, etc.. Some of the pieces we needed to continue the Federal Testing which were not even available any longer. We had to epoxy some pieces together just to continue testing. Most people will not have the $1.000's to replace a complete smog device, nor will the State assistance go very far. I've found that many times just installing a fresh Cat after flunking will get the rig to pass on your return visit to the tester.

If what I'm currently doing doesn't work, I'll just replace the cat as it seems that would help me out a bunch.