TBI Swap

Kurtis · 06-09-09, 10:08 PM

Here are some pictures from the beginning of my engine swap.

Kurtis · 06-09-09, 11:04 PM

Well I started. Yesterday I pulled the engine. Took about 3 and a half hours to yank it. I'm using my father in laws giant engine lift so that helps alot. I ordered my adaptors from advance adaptors so I should get those tommorrow and weld on the motor mounts, cut my output shaft, and test placement. I decided to go with the adaptor from advanced adaptors becuase i'm using a 4l60e transmission and they have a specific adaptor that places the vss in the adaptor. I liked this because it is the closest to stock setup. The TBI is resealed and ready to boilt everything up to i'm just waiting on the adaptor at this piont. If I get everything set tommorrow i'll Set the engine on thursday and start the wiring, plumbing and exhaust. I hope to get this to at least turn over by the end of the weekend. The TBI 350 has 100k so I'm just going to run it for 6-8 months before I rebuild. The 4l60e is rebuilt and ready to go. I had a custom wiring harness made, I kept all the smog equiptment which compared to a 2f is surprisingly little.

Couple questions, Anyone Have a picture of their mount locations? Measurments would be awesome but eithe way any suggestion is helpful. As far as driveshafts are concerned does anyone know do you end up taking alot off? I'll have a shop do this part but I 'm just curious.

A little background. I had a white 62 right as gas was hitting 4 a gallon and loved it That thing took me everywhere and never let me down. The only thing I didn't like was the lack of power. . That was about 2 and a Half years ago. I drove it for about 8 months and sold it as I was getting married working full time and going to school full time and not making enough to pay for the gas and tuition. It was hard to let go, It was in amazing shape. I didn't know to much about landcruisers but when I sold it I kept some money from it to buy another one and fix up some time. After about 8 months work started to get busy and one day I found this one for a great price. It needed help the smog pump was out powersteering leaked and the paint was bad. I went through a ton of things on and drove that for about a year. The carb needed rebuilt so I decided this was adequate enough excuse for an engine swap, or at least I explained it to my wife this way. At this point I either needed a pickup truck to pull my dirtbike and a quad and for trips or I figured I'd put an engine in the land cruiser as taht option seems alot more fun. I picked the TBI becuase of #1 the price and #2 the simplicity and reliablility. For not alot of money they will put out 300hp and 400lbs of torque which a newer vortec would be hard pressed to beat in stock form. They also make a bolt on supercharger kit thats tempting me more and more everyday that adds some good numbers instantly. The engine I found orginally was in front of a 4l60e so that made the transmission decision easy. It spends alot of time in traffic so I was ready for an auto again. Any Advice is greatly appreciated thanks to everyone on here for all of the tips.

IrollwithTojo · 06-09-09, 11:39 PM

Don't forget to document your swap with tons of pics!!

-Carl

Elbert · 06-10-09, 05:42 AM

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...p-86-fj60.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...ec-begins.html

check these two threads out. I'm no expert...but we took the hood off, used a piece of string or tape across the fenders to create a "hood Line" for reference, and then we tried to center the engine. We ended up having to weld up one of the holes on the advance adapters mouts to get the postion just right (for the left and right alignment. We also went as high as reasonably possible to clear the front driveshaft and no to hit the hood line. I have the advance adapters engine mounts as well as their bellhousing adapter so my front to rear postion was fixed. This makes a pretty tight clearnace between the water pump and radiator. We probally should have tried to get my engine better "centered " in regard to being "square" with the radiator but I was planning on running electric cooling fans so it was not a huge deal to me at the time, but given my engine orentiation at the raditor I don't think I have enough clearance to run a mechanical cooling fan. When I said weld up one of the holes...to further explain we could not get the mount to align just where we wanted with the given holes...so my friend welded the hole up...and we drilled a new hole to get the alignment we needed (will make sense when you see the engine mount adapters from advance (the part that bolts to the engine where you adjustment is for left and right alignement.

My setup is a 5.7 vortec engine along with yota manual 5 speed. You might want to get a sliver star (membership) so you can do some expanded searches. There are a number of threads where guys did some engine swaps. If you read through mine you'll notice we had some issues at times with some stupid stuff but I guess that happens with this kind of modification.

lehiguy · 06-10-09, 09:00 AM

Do you have an actual 4L60E or is the the 700R4? They are the same basic hardware, but the 700R4 can be controlled the old fashioned way; vacuum modulator, kickdown, etc. The 4L60E is electronicly controlled by the PCM.

Kurtis · 06-10-09, 02:45 PM

It is an actual 4l60E I guess sometime in 1993 some of the tbis came with the 4l60e and the donor vehicle was setup this way

Kurtis · 06-16-09, 06:55 PM

So the day after I pulled my engine, which also happened to be the day the adaptor and motor mounts were supposed to arrive a salesperson from advance adaptors called and said the adaptor that was instock ready to ship a week prior is actually out of stock and wont ship till july 2nd. O well I don't really care that much I should be able to get it done right after I get home from a cruise in time for school and work this year I was just a little frustrated but what can I do their the only ones who make the adaptor with the vss in the adaptor mimicking a stock setup which I like. I had them send me the motor mounts but I have a problem. Without the adaptor installed its hard to judge a good position for the engine. I have a body lift installed so height shouldn't be an issue at all but front to back is what i'm worried about.

Does anyone have some measurments and pictures of their mount locations? This would really help as I could set in the engine and wire everything up while I'm waiting for the adaptor. I'd like to have everything ready and only ahve the tcase and driveshafts to deal with when the adaptor arrives.

To anyone who has done this swap do you have to do anything with the shafts from the advanced adaptors book it makes it seem like sometiems you do sometimes you don't. Either way is fine but If I could position it that I didn't would be excellent.

Thanks a lot I would appreciate any pictures or measurments that would help this go forward while I wait.

lehiguy · 06-17-09, 09:57 AM

The biggest question is do you have adequate oil pan/differential clearance? The 2F sits towards the driver's side a fair amount for that reason. Since I'm SOA, I moved the motor to a more central position. My rear driveline (centered rear diff) is almost perfectly straight. The front is at a bit of an angle, not too bad. If you have the motor already, get it set in place and check it out. The 350 is not as tall as the 2F, so I raised mine up pretty high in the engine bay to ensure that I didn't have issues with clearance. All other concerns are secondary.

Kurtis · 06-18-09, 07:48 PM

Ideally how far do I want my fan from my radiator? As it sits right now I have about an inch between fan and radiator. just barely enough to remove the mechanical fan by barely I mean 1/16 of an inch.

Elbert · 06-19-09, 10:20 AM

No set length...but certainly enough to remove fan/clutch when required. I don't think its possible to get that much room anyway without serious modifications. Make sure to fab up a fan shroud too... I would use the correct GM fan and fan clutch that matches your engine if you have no clearance issues. Make sure you have room such that fan cannot get into your radiator....

ntsqd · 06-19-09, 10:55 AM

And/or get one of these:

~2/3rds of the way down the page:
B.C. Broncos - 66-77 Early Bronco Engine Cooling Systems

lehiguy · 06-19-09, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtis

Ideally how far do I want my fan from my radiator? As it sits right now I have about an inch between fan and radiator. just barely enough to remove the mechanical fan by barely I mean 1/16 of an inch.

You probably want to push that back. This will also give you more room between the diff and the oil pan.

lehiguy · 06-19-09, 12:55 PM

Also, a mechanical fan will move more air than an electric one. This argument goes on and on, but I'll give you an example that is in print in a book called Chevrolet TPI and TBI Engine Swappping by Mike Knell. In it he cites that a 1984 Camaro four-cylinder came with the same radiator core as a 1/2 ton truck with a 305. The Camaro used an electric fan, the truck a mechanical one. In his opinion (and mine) overheating is often caused by an electric fan, not cured by it. For the reocord, I have a stock radiator and a mechanical fan and I never overheat. In fact, it never gets any hotter than the six did and my EFI computer verifies that, it's not just the temp gauge indicating that.

Elbert · 06-19-09, 01:08 PM

I would also advocate the use of a proper mechanical radiator fan and GM fan clutch or appropriate clutch to match your fan of choice (aftermarket fan clutches are not that well made), allthough I had a Beck Arnley ?? fan clutch on my I-6 and it worked fine.

Space limitations may require electric fans.. Dual electric fans from a V-6 Ford Contur are almost a perfect fit. A properly setup electric radiator fan (likely with dual fans) will cool pretty good. Especially when you are at low rpms, where mechanical fans do not pull that much air...ie off-road. On the GM stuff I favor the large GM OEM Fan that comes on like a 1999 Yukon, with the large GM single "nut" fan clutch....all of which runs on a single fan belt. Fan shroud is important too for cooling.

Don't screw around with the flex fans.

In the case of a TBI...I think you'll be fine with the corresponding fan & clutch off the year model truck your engine equates too...if you have no issues with the fan hitting or clearance issues.

ntsqd · 06-19-09, 01:32 PM

From what I've seen the OE's have a significant lead in the cooling ability of their electric fans over anything available from the aftermarket. If an electric fan has to be used, scout around for something late model. The Contour and Taurus fans get a lot of press, but there may be other, equal options.

Elbert · 06-19-09, 05:11 PM

the dual electric fan ( from V-6 FORD contour) cools my V-8...so it must be reasonably powerful. I can recommend SPAL brand fans too. The straight blade versions will really move some air but are a little loud. The curved fan blade versions are less powerful but do a good job.

I have a 16" SPAL fan mounted on my brass aftermarket radiator and it works well (kind of loud)...to bad you don't have enough room to mount two of the 16" SPAL fans, because if you did your cooling issues would be over.

I now have an aluminium radiator with the dual ford contur fans....works well. I kept my radiatior mentioned above as a spare in case I need it, It works fine too. I like the idea of having two fans rather than just one.

If you run electric fans you want to have them pull air through the radiator and have the fans cover the maxium area of the rear of the radiator possible and fab up a shroud if you are able to do so.

Take a look at the OEM fans and how they are setup... GM, FORD, Honda, Toytat... You'll notice they have similar setups... Normal dual fans with the mount being a shroud as well.

Kurtis · 06-20-09, 12:24 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I moved the engine back just a little more and down about half an inch. I like. where it sits now the fan comes off and on easily. I started some of the wiring this morning. I need my vssb and I'm missing the oil pressure sensor and one other unidentified sensor Ill post a pic of the location if anyone knows that would be alot of help. My TBI had a 1 wire o2 sensor but the shop that made my harness gave me a part number for a 3 wire bosch so Ill pick that up today and go fuel pump shopping. With the automatic I kind of like where the stock exhaust dumps I may leave those alone. If anyone has a good picture of the top of a TBI that would be helpfull. I'm very impressed with the simplicity of a tbi system compared to other fuel injected cars I have had.

Kurtis · 06-20-09, 12:26 PM

Any Help identifying these would be awesome. I'm going to the store to buy parts in an hour or so. Thanks again for all the help.

Elbert · 06-20-09, 01:55 PM

What year is the GM engine and what vehicle did it come out of?

Kurtis · 06-20-09, 03:29 PM

Its a 1993 Surburban drive train.

Elbert · 06-20-09, 04:28 PM

ok...someone correct me if I"m wrong but the first pic with red circle looks like the temp sensor the ECM uses to read coolant temp, or what's left of that sensor. The first pic shows the temp sender that feeds the temp guage in the cluster....threads into drivers side cylinder head.

What do you have circled in the last picture?... I don't recall anything going there? Is that a open plug or a plugged hole? Hard to tell by pic.

Kurtis · 06-20-09, 04:53 PM

The Third is an unplugged hole in the intake manifold runner it looks like. Is this something to do with the heater core? If you look at the second picture in the top right corner there is a threaded female connection I'm trying to figure out as well. Is that the vaccuum for the brake booster? You were right on with the first and second I bought that sensor today as long as the fuel line connections. That place you told me about the fuel pump is actually located down the street from me a few miles so I'll stop by there monday after work.

Elbert · 06-20-09, 05:17 PM

There is a port on the rear of the intake for brake booster vaccum. I sold my 92K1500 or I would simply go outside at look at it. I think that threaded connection is the port for brake booster vaccum.
I don't recall anything on the third pic. I'll look around on the shop manual I have somewhere and see what it may show.

If you have any friends...with a TBI pickup around that same year, you can simply look at theirs for a reference. TBI 350 went in all type of GM trucks, SUV's in those years.. Also was in caprice, roadmaster...

I'll see what I can find out.

Kurtis · 06-20-09, 09:01 PM

I checked the junk yard and everything is missing the intake so no help there. I think I might have a friend who has a TBI pickup sitting somewhere with a blown tranny I can take a look at.

ntsqd · 06-21-09, 03:31 PM

Tell where I'm looking and I can take pics of my '91 Suburban 350 TBI 4WD.

Elbert · 06-21-09, 03:48 PM

see last pic...where item in red is circled.

cruiserbrett · 06-21-09, 04:49 PM

green wire sensor above exhaust is gauge or idiot light sensor.

black and yellow wire sensor is for ECM coolant temp.

I think the port in the intake is either for brake booster vacuum or a port for the heater control vacuum source.

ntsqd · 06-21-09, 05:32 PM

Pics are links to higher res pics.

Port is the Cruise Control's vacuum source. Also looks to supply vacuum to the HVAC dash controls. Note the "T" between the dizzy and the CC unit.

"U" shaped tube goes to the brake booster.

Elbert · 06-21-09, 07:56 PM

I think they must have changed cruise control units in 92...because my truck had cruise (K1500) but did not have the vaccum pot type... I think it had the (for lack of a better word) black box control. Good pics..should be helpful. I think you can buy the brake booster hose fairly inexpensive...as I recall it went from the hard line to a rubber hose that just fit a large type plastic nipple fitting on the brake booster. You might have some luck finding that in a junk yard if so inclined.

I think you most likely could use the throttle cable off a similar pickup or SUV to adapt to the LC.

I would advise not to use any of the small platic hose from the GM engine for vaccum. Known to crack and cause issues with check engine light. Once I did away with mine for the EGR solonoid and valve I had no further problems, I just used old school rubber vaccum hose.

Kurtis · 06-21-09, 11:53 PM

Thanks for those pics that is a big help. So as far as that hole I will plug it. Speaking of the vaccuum hoses half of them I broke when I put on new intake gaskets so its good to know I can just use some rubber hose. I'll probably be close if not ready to crank it over tommorrow and test out at least hte motor.