[Spike Strip]

Really a 2-part problem:

1- Which Master Cylinder for 4Runner Calipers?

I see some MC's for T100, pickup, etc., have a Brake Fluid level sensor, some don't. Anyone know if the sensor (like in this LINK ) will work with the stock FJ60 ? Are those 1" bore?

The one Marlin Crawler lists LINK does not seem to have the sensor.

2- I put some 4Runner calipers on and am having a lot of trouble bleeding the brakes. Don't know what is going on. I've gone through a couple of big bottles, now, and the pedal still goes to the floor. First pedal press is stiff, but goes to the floor, then much softer after that.

When I bleed the brakes (starting at the RR), there isn't much of a stream being pushed out the bleeder, just a weak spurt, and some air. Everything seems to be working. No Leaks. I even bled the Stock MC again and still no change. Stock is good, but I'm thinking a larger-bore MC might help?

Any suggestions?

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

Really a 2-part problem:

1- Which Master Cylinder for 4Runner Calipers?

I see some MC's for T100, pickup, etc., have a Brake Fluid level sensor, some don't. Anyone know if the sensor (like in this LINK ) will work with the stock FJ60 ? Are those 1" bore?

The one Marlin Crawler lists LINK does not seem to have the sensor.

2- I put some 4Runner calipers on and am having a lot of trouble bleeding the brakes. Don't know what is going on. I've gone through a couple of big bottles, now, and the pedal still goes to the floor. First pedal press is stiff, but goes to the floor, then much softer after that.

When I bleed the brakes (starting at the RR), there isn't much of a stream being pushed out the bleeder, just a weak spurt, and some air. Everything seems to be working. No Leaks. I even bled the Stock MC again and still no change. Stock is good, but I'm thinking a larger-bore MC might help?

Any suggestions?

You said that you pushed 2 bottles of fluid through. did all of that trickle out of the bleeders, or is there a chance you are losing it elsewhere?

Do you get a stronger stream when you unhook the line that goes into the caliper?

It seems you have a leak somewhere, combined with a blockage. chances are it is in the newly installed parts.

do you also get only weak dribbling from the rear cylinders (which I assume are original)?

Your master could definitely be bad. did you check behind the master, whether there is fluid going into the booster?

cheers,
J

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm subscribing, but I have nothing to add other than what's been said in the other thread.

[Mark W]

Whatever MC you have in the rig to start with will work fine with the runner calipers. I have never needed to change out the MC for this swap.

The problem is not the type of MC that you have.... You may have a bad MC (bad seals). But... it may be a simple as a failure to bench blead the MC... Or loose/leaking connections in between.


Bench bleed it first (you can do this on the rig) and make sure yiu do not have leaking connections.


Mark...

[Dynosoar]

Bleed order on a FJ60 is Left rear, Right rear, Left front, Right front Always start from the farthest point, and end with the closest.


Dynosoar

[Spike Strip]

I've checked for leaks everywhere - unless it's going into the booster (and not dripping out, yet) I can't find a leak. But I rebuilt the stock MC less than 200 miles ago with Toyo parts and the correct hydrolic-compatible grease. With that much fluid, if there were a leak, I'd see it by now.

Drippling is coming from the rear wheel cyl, too (stock drum brakes), new cylinders about 200 miles ago - they were working fine when I pulled the front calipers.

I'm going to pull the lines to calipers and check for a stream at the soft line junction.

I was hoping to keep the stock FJ60 MC (level sensor is a good thing) - so Mark, it pushes enough volume, in your experience? And did you keep the LSPV?

[inkpot]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

I've checked for leaks everywhere - unless it's going into the booster (and not dripping out, yet) I can't find a leak. But I rebuilt the stock MC less than 200 miles ago with Toyo parts and the correct hydrolic-compatible grease. With that much fluid, if there were a leak, I'd see it by now.

Drippling is coming from the rear wheel cyl, too (stock drum brakes), new cylinders about 200 miles ago - they were working fine when I pulled the front calipers.

I'm going to pull the lines to calipers and check for a stream at the soft line junction.

I was hoping to keep the stock FJ60 MC (level sensor is a good thing) - so Mark, it pushes enough volume, in your experience? And did you keep the LSPV?

Howdy! If it is not leaking out, then it is bypassing the seals in the MC. John

[Spike Strip]

Originally Posted by inkpot

Howdy! If it is not leaking out, then it is bypassing the seals in the MC. John

If it's getting past the seals, it's gotta leak, yes ??

Sure, it could be a coincidence, but MC was working fine until the caliper swap - literally overnight it goes bad? And I don't see any symptoms...

This is really frustrating. ...

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

If it's getting past the seals, it's gotta leak, yes ??

not necessarily. as you know from the rebuilt, there are 2 plungers in there. If the seal on the front one is bad (or installed the wrong way around), then you are simply pushing fluid from one chamber to the other, but not to the brake circuits. This actually is a quite likely scenario. Did you hone the thing correctly when you rebuilt it?
cheers,
J

[Spike Strip]

Yes, used a 20mm hone (the kind with the abrasive balls) ... but that's a good point about fluid moving from chamber to chamber, didn't realize that.

But it's moot, now. I broke down and went out and bought a new Aisin T100 MC according to this write-up: Toyota Land Cruiser Brake Master Replacement and Upgrade- ORN

I've run out of other things to try.

For anyone else looking for what MC to buy, I got Toyota part # 47201-3D020 which also corresponds to 1986 + V6 truck. I got the one for the T100 because you can splice in the level sensor to work with the FJ60.

[Jan-78FJ40]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

Yes, used a 20mm hone (the kind with the abrasive balls) ... but that's a good point about fluid moving from chamber to chamber, didn't realize that.

But it's moot, now. I broke down and went out and bought a new Aisin T100 MC according to this write-up: Toyota Land Cruiser Brake Master Replacement and Upgrade- ORN

I've run out of other things to try.

For anyone else looking for what MC to buy, I got Toyota part # 47201-3D020 which also corresponds to 1986 + V6 truck. I got the one for the T100 because you can splice in the level sensor to work with the FJ60.

cool, let us know whether that fixes the problem.
cheers,
J

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

so Mark, it pushes enough volume, in your experience? And did you keep the LSPV?

It pushes plenty... these calipers are not that much larger volumewise than the original. and keeping the LSPV is dependent on other factors of the rig, but not the front calipers



Mark...

[Spike Strip]

Just curious, in the pirate4x4 article, the new MC is Cast Iron. The new Aisin I got (same one) is aluminum or some Al alloy. All the others Aisin MC's I saw on-line look like Aluminum too. Is this cheaper production?

[Mark W]

AL is better... it does not corrode and pit from moisture absorbed into the fluid the way the way the older iron ones do.


Toyota switched to Al with the 80 series and with the T100, Tundra and Taco and all newer rigs


Mark...

[Spike Strip]

Good info, thanks Mark !

[Bomar]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

Just curious, in the pirate4x4 article, the new MC is Cast Iron. The new Aisin I got (same one) is aluminum or some Al alloy. All the others Aisin MC's I saw on-line look like Aluminum too. Is this cheaper production?

Where did you get the MC?

So you did or didn't get 47201-3D020?

I have been waiting on the Marlin MC to come back in stock for over 3 weeks to make my switch.

[Spike Strip]

Yes, that's the one I got.

I did a lot of research on the diff MC's available. The one Marlin, Downey, All-pro, etc., lists is an early FJ80 1" bore. But their focus is not LC's --

The only thing that differs between the MCs is the reservoir setup. The 47201-3D020 is easier for an FJ60, if you want to keep the fluid level sensor working. A simple wire splice for the connector. The FJ80 MC has the connector molded in the side of the reservoir, and you have to then get a pigtail and spice the connector into your wire loom.

I'll post pix when I done... Bench bleeding now.

I purchased from allcarparts.com $89 New Aisin w/ reservoir. Most of the other aftermarket brands do not come with reservoir, which you will need. Listed as fitting a '93 T100 1/2-ton V6 4wd Website price was higher, until I called and talked to Louie.

edit: this MC is designed for a disc/drum -- If you plan to go disc in the rear, a later disc/disc MC may be better for that application.

[Bomar]

Can you post the link b/c that web site is to a AUS website. Could you not just use the same cap. Or could you PM me the number to speak to Louie

[Spike Strip]

Opps, sorry -

Try this: ALL CAR PARTS on the internet

All Car Parts

1-800-99PARTS.
(800 997-2787)
Fax (818) 884-7495

Caps are different sizes.

Haven't finished bleeding it yet (have to wait for the Mrs. to finish cleaning the kitchen before she'll help me... ) So no evaluation, yet.

Here's the MC installed.

[Spike Strip]

You'll have to bend the lines, slightly, to get them to fit... I loosened the fittings at the Proportioning Valve to make it easier.

Before bending.

[Spike Strip]

I'm getting some weeping past the threads on the fitting under the reservoir -- Have to take it apart to see how I buggered the flare.

[Mark W]

Is that what you have been calling an LSPV?
I was not paying attention before.... your 60 does not hve a Load Sensing Proportioning Valve.

That was introduced with the '62.


the LSPV is under the back of the rig.

The valve mounted to the brake booster is just a plain old proportioning valve to balance the disc up front with the drums in back.


Mark...

[Spike Strip]

Originally Posted by Mark W

Is that what you have been calling an LSPV?
I was not paying attention before....

Mark...

Yup - that's what I meant

[Bomar]

This one:

all car parts

[Spike Strip]

Yes, that's the one.

I went to the store, 'cuz they're near me... You might be able to find it local.

And I have to say, the larger MC may not be needed but, at least for me, it made a world of difference in pedal feel... Rock solid now. With the stock, pedal travel was excessive, for my tastes.

[Bomar]

Got one on the way.

Thanks

[calphi27]

ALL-FOREIGN CAR PARTS - Import & Domestic Car Parts, Import & Domestic Truck Parts, Brakes, Rotors, Distrubutors

just ordered this one for $96 shipped. same as the one above aisin

chinese one for $66

[Spike Strip]

Calphi -

Don't know why, but their web-price (all car parts) is higher... If you call (probably Tues, now, with the holiday) the price is less.

Mine was $55 (+tax) or so for the Aisin, when the web-price was listed at 96... Ask for Louie.

[calphi27]

Originally Posted by Spike Strip

Calphi -

Don't know why, but their web-price (all car parts) is higher... If you call (probably Tues, now, with the holiday) the price is less.

Mine was $55 (+tax) or so for the Aisin, when the web-price was listed at 96... Ask for Louie.

i owe you a mud beer. gracias

[GLTHFJ60]

Thanks again for laying this all out spike. I just ordered one.