[DirtyLittleSecret]

I could have sworn that there is a thread here regarding somr 4Runner calipers that mount up to enhance the front disk brakes...am I wrong or are there any caliper upgrades available?

[2mbb]

Check the FAQ: http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...ll-*pics*.html

[dgangle]

Here was a good article on this but the site appears now to be nonfunctional. Anyone know the author? Here's a crappy scan but it's all I got. It basically said to use '92 V6 4Runner calipers as they are the biggest pistons but you may need to update your mastercylinder to a larger bore to push enough fluid, your wheeel may hit the larger calipers and you have to trim the backing plates.



EDIT: after re-reading the above link it appears to be the same thing. The scan adds a little more info on how and why. I used these and had to grind very, very little to clear my 15X10 MT Classic II wheels.

The next best may be Toyota Lancruiser Vented Rotor Swap

[Godwin]

The 60s already have vented rotors.

I did the 4Runner swap and only had to trim the backing plate. Both stock wheels and the old style wagon spoke wheels fit with no rubbing.

The caliper swap made a noticeable, but not dramatic, difference with stopping but I'm still using the stock 60 series MC.

[Mace]

Yeppers, not a huge difference but a slight one.

If you are having braking troubles with anything under 35" tires, you might want to look at the system itself.

Also, it is not just the runner calipers. Most of the V6 mini calipers (if not all) use the same large bore calipers.

I am running the large calipers on Bob with the stock master.

[agent orange]

In hindsight im not sure i needed to use the larger mc. I think the lspv is preventing me from getting full utililty from my braking system, plus i cant seem to keep my drums in adjustment even though i have new hardware in them, i think im just gonna swap in some disk brakes in the rear.

[Tinker]

Although the big discount parts houses have them cheaper, the Stealer (at least mine) will accept any Yota caliper in trade for their remans. I tend to trust Toyota & will prolly use their calipers on my 4-way disc swap.

P.S. Is this the thread you're looking for?http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wa...r-upgrade.html

[89GASHOG]

Dieseldog has been very impressed by TLC's "monster" calipers. They're quite expensive-almost $600!
No need to change master cylinder.

[dgangle]

Bling yes, any quantitative benefit, probably not. I know people with less than that in their whole trail rig. I wonder how many they actually sell a year and how one justifies that kind of coin for ?? benefit.

[CruisinFJ60]

Originally Posted by dgangle

Bling yes, any quantitative benefit, probably not. I know people with less than that in their whole trail rig. I wonder how many they actually sell a year and how one justifies that kind of coin for ?? benefit.

agreed.

I am gonna personally run the 95 v6 4x4 4 runner calipers, my cost through work is meerly like 40 bux a pop from o'riely for a loaded caliper with theyre ceramic wagner pads.

[S&S1stCruzer]

I have some calipers that I took my 2002 tacoma that kept when I upgraded to Tundra calipers. Next time I have the wheel off I'll see if they would work....hmmm if the tacoma calipers end up fitting, them maybe the tundra calipers would fit also?

[cody c]

i did the v6 4runner front calipers and monte carlo RDB's, they work well and stop 39.5's better than you'd think. Still running stock mc. I bought an 80 series MC but havent bothered to swap because the stock one seems to do the trick.

[Tinker]

S&S -
Should "fit", but the big question is whether the wheel would contact it like with a stock 4rnr caliper.

The mounting bolts are spaced 90mm & the rotor thickness is 20mm IIRC.

[DirtyLittleSecret]

Did the 4Runner mod today, but need to get my studs pressed. Looks as though it will fit up nicely with new Raybestos Pro calipers, ceramic pads, and new rotors. Will keep my MC.

[GAS-A-LOT!]

4runner calipers in mine...

I can lock my wheels now.

[ntsqd]

Originally Posted by S&S1stCruzer

I have some calipers that I took my 2002 tacoma that kept when I upgraded to Tundra calipers. Next time I have the wheel off I'll see if they would work....hmmm if the tacoma calipers end up fitting, them maybe the tundra calipers would fit also?

No and No. I've looked into this, had the local brake parts place pull samples, measured various dims etc. Taco & Tundy caliper's are not bolt-on calipers. I've a write-up in mind for when I get the time.

I wouldn't bother with a larger bore MC for the V6 calipers unless you're determined to get back closer to where you started from. The whole point of the V6 caliper swap is to get more piston area, which is more force multiplication. Going to a larger MC bore reduces the force multiplication.

[Tinker]

NT -
I think the whole question of MC bore goes back to rear discs: when installed with the 4runner fronts they add significant piston area & make the stock MC borderline inadequate.

I'd love to have a local brake parts place where I could look at all manner of Toyota calipers. Instead, I'll have to go to the typical Toyota junkyard where some monkey will tell me "that whole pile is Tacundra stuff" & I'll believe him until I get it home.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Mace

If you are having braking troubles with anything under 35" tires, you might want to look at the system itself.

Exactly...




If you do not use the parking brake, or crawl under the truck and manually adjust the rear drum brake shoes, your rear brakes are likely not doing anything to help stop the vehicle.

Many times people bring me Land Cruisers and Mini trucks that have poor brakes and they want to spend all sorts of money on upgraded brake components. I adjust the rear brakes for them and they cannot believe the difference in pedal height or stopping ability of the vehicle.

[Butt Ugly Chuck]

Originally Posted by Poser

Exactly...




If you do not use the parking brake, or crawl under the truck and manually adjust the rear drum brake shoes, your rear brakes are likely not doing anything to help stop the vehicle.

Many times people bring me Land Cruisers and Mini trucks that have poor brakes and they want to spend all sorts of money on upgraded brake components. I adjust the rear brakes for them and they cannot believe the difference in pedal height or stopping ability of the vehicle.

x2. Without upgrading parts, I seriously improved braking performance just by following Mud'structions and the FSM to get adjustment of the rear brakes right. I got little tires though so I may need to upgrade someday when I go bigger

Butt

[lehiguy]

Originally Posted by Poser

Exactly...




If you do not use the parking brake, or crawl under the truck and manually adjust the rear drum brake shoes, your rear brakes are likely not doing anything to help stop the vehicle.

Many times people bring me Land Cruisers and Mini trucks that have poor brakes and they want to spend all sorts of money on upgraded brake components. I adjust the rear brakes for them and they cannot believe the difference in pedal height or stopping ability of the vehicle.

Amen to that. I drove for ten years with the same 1/16 inch of brake shoe material. In other words, it didn't work. Oddly enough, the park brake worked flawlessly, but I could never get the stupid things to work right otherwise. When I swapped axles, I put on rear disks and I couldn't believe the difference! I'm not terrified to tow heavy loads anymore.

[GAS-A-LOT!]

what axles? rear disks?
from where....

sorry, hijack over.

[Randy88FJ62]

I just got ahold of a rear FJ62 axle with disk conversion. It's GM stuff (TSM.) They took old GM brakes and bored out the center to fit onto our axles. It can be done. Pics are in my SOA prep thread right now.

[ntsqd]

Originally Posted by Tinker

NT -
I think the whole question of MC bore goes back to rear discs: when installed with the 4runner fronts they add significant piston area & make the stock MC borderline inadequate.

I understand that desire, but I've seen posts on going to various larger bore m/c's w/o rear discs.
IME going to larger bore to satisfy the needs of the brakes that do maybe 20% of the high speed work is going at things the wrong way. Make the fronts work the way you want (pedal feel & travel distance), then chose and adjust the choice of the rear parts to work without changing the front set-up. Because of the inter-relatedness of the front & rear systems I realize that it isn't as easy I as I make it sound, but it is the correct priority sequence - it just may take several iterations to get there. Toyota doesn't hit it spot-on the first time, every time with a new vehicle. They will have to try different combo's in the prototype stage. No reason to think that we will get it right first time out of the box.

I'd love to have a local brake parts place where I could look at all manner of Toyota calipers. Instead, I'll have to go to the typical Toyota junkyard where some monkey will tell me "that whole pile is Tacundra stuff" & I'll believe him until I get it home.

It's local brake/suspension parts warehouse that also sells retail. Your local non-chain retail parts places get some or most of their stock from local to semi-local warehouses, could be they're listed in the yellows. They may or may not want to sell to you, but they might be willing to pull parts for you to look at.

FWIW the GM 14BFF drum brakes are the same way about being in adjustment. Can't believe how good those brakes can get when they're adjusted correctly. And contrary to the parts installed, they really do not self-adjust.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by ntsqd

I understand that desire, but I've seen posts on going to various larger bore m/c's w/o rear discs.
IME going to larger bore to satisfy the needs of the brakes that do maybe 20% of the high speed work is going at things the wrong way. Make the fronts work the way you want (pedal feel & travel distance), then chose and adjust the choice of the rear parts to work without changing the front set-up. Because of the inter-relatedness of the front & rear systems I realize that it isn't as easy I as I make it sound, but it is the correct priority sequence - it just may take several iterations to get there. Toyota doesn't hit it spot-on the first time, every time with a new vehicle. They will have to try different combo's in the prototype stage. No reason to think that we will get it right first time out of the box.

I installed a 1" bore Minitruck MC when I did the 4Runner caliper upgrade, and it was fantastic as far as pedal travel and feel. I still had the stock drums, which I had broke down and inspected to make sure they were still well within limits as far as wear, and properly adjusted.

Then when I upgraded to rear discs, the pedal feel was still okay, but travel was more than I cared for. This was with Eldorado calipers (with the built in ebrake). I'm now using Monte Carlo calipers, which appear to have a larger bore than the Eldo calipers, which increased pedal travel even more. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a larger bore Toyota MC available that will bolt onto our boosters.

While rooting around the intertubes, I saw that Sky Manufacturing sells a Toyota/GM adapter that allows you to install a GM MC from a hydroboosted vehicle onto the Toyota vacuum booster (I'm figuring that the pushrod length is what's dictating the need for a hydroboost MC as opposed to one from a vacuum boosted vehicle. Anyhow, I looked at the different GM MCs available that should be compatible with the adapter, and found one for an '86 1-ton that has a 34mm bore. It sounds large, but there are smaller (and yes, even larger) bores available, so I figured since that's about middle of the road, I'd use that as a starting point. I'm going to try the adapter with the 34mm bore MC and eee how well it works. Like you said initially, the key is to finding the right MC for the front brakes, and then going from there. For gradual, low speed stops I'm not concerned about front/rear brake proportioning, but for situations where I'll have to dynamite my brakes, I'll leave my Wilwood proportioning valve installed on the rear line so that I don't get rear wheel lockup before the front even engage.

It'll be a trial-and-error process, but I'm hoping the end result will be the best brakes you can end up with on a 60 series, properly proportioned and everything.

[Randy88FJ62]

Is an LSPV used when you have rear disks? Something I haven't considered.

[Cruzerman]

I could be wrong, but I thought that the T-100 MC was a bolt on deal and was even larger than the 4Runner.

That being said, I put the 4Runner calipers in the front, rebuilt the rear drums, and am using the stock MC. Works just fine on my 33s.

[ntsqd]

The key is when you get the front brakes working the way that you want, and it'll potentially be somewhat masked by the rears falling down on the job, to then find a rear caliper with a piston size that puts the hydraulic balance of the system pretty close. You can tune a too-large rear caliper down with a p-valve, but you'll be giving up some flexibility on the system. If you tune it to work well at trail speeds it'll be too much rear brake at highway speeds. I believe that the better the hydraulic match of the rear caliper, the less proportioning needed. There will probably almost always need to be some, but the best is to use as little as possible. That means that the fluid volume needed is as low as possible resulting as short of a pedal travel as the maximum hydraulic leverage can offer.

[3pits]

most of these vehicles are 20 yo PLUS, double check your rubber hoses, I found all of mine to be cracking and one to be disentigrating internally,

I put 4 runner calipers on 6 months ago, it was an ok upgrade,, my axel oil seals started leaking and then my calipers locked up,,,bad MC, I said F it, and decided to replace all of it at the same time so I would know it was done right at the same time,,,
new calipers
new pads
new ss lines
new rotors

I decided that that meant I should replace the ss lines too,,,

I replaced them all with ss lines, 92 4 runner calipers upfront, wagner top of the line pads, ( I bought the shoes but just needed adjusting) and even though I bled them properly I can still stop my 33's from 70mph VERY fast,,, a WHOLE lot faster than new LC calipers, I did not replace the cylinders, but did replace some springs in the rear that were either missing or disintigrated

my op check the rubber lines first then second replace the calipers for 4 runner calipers

[Vicm]

We just got an 86 HJ60 lately, I put new calipers and pads on the front and redone the rear brakes. Now she stops on a dime.
I have ran toy calipers in the rear of my fj40 and an 89 Toy truck. I hate the rear brake setup on those toy trucks where the adjusters are at the bottom and doing the 60 rear brakes for the first time, IMO , thats a lot better setup.The auto adjusting is a lot better. But one should check adjustment every few months.
I am still considering putting discs in the rear while keeping the e-brake setup on the 60 .
I have been looking for the supra calipers that will work with the existing e-brake cables to do a rear dics conversion on a friend's toy truck.
I can't seem to get them through the parts suppliers around here. They show pics, but they can't get them.
Once I get my hands on those supra calipers , the 60 will have discs in the rear.
If someone can shed some light on those supra calipers, please do so.
I believe 79-81 surpa calipers are the best candidates for what I am trying to do.
Thnks in advance for any help or insight.

Vic

[Tinker]

We're getting pretty far from Dirty's original question which has been answered repeatedly. I'm going to start another thread on the prototype TSM brackets for 60/62 calipers for my FF but haven't made any progress lately (typical). Still looking for smaller calipers with the same mounting specs so I don't have to run a prop valve.