[Spook50]

Originally Posted by wyomingben

If you don't mind me asking, why are you doing this mod?

Several reasons. The main two being to free up some power that gets eaten up by the belt driven fan (for long hauls uphill when driving through the passes), and for quicker warmups in the winter. With the factory clutch fan, when you've got the engine warm and it's moving air, it takes quite a bit of oomph to get it spinning (add that to having the A/C on and in hot weather, it eats up a lot of power when it's locked up). I'm hoping this will free up some high end HP for highway driving (and maybe net me an extra mile or two per gallon). Even when the engine is cold when you start it up, the fan is still moving a bit of air as well. With the electric, no air is moving through the radiator until the engine is warm and the fan starts coming on.

[wyomingben]

Thanks for the reply, be sure to post up the results and if you get better MPG's.

[lehiguy]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Spooky -

I love SS fasteners, too. But there's one thing I learned on my '56 F100: if you use air wrenches to tighten them up the heat generated causes bolts & nuts to fuse together & strip. Dunno if you should use anti-seize & whether it would foil the NA feature (Nylon Aircraft "locker").

I too learned this the hard way. I used SS fasteners on my headers where they connect to the collector pipe. Bad idea. I could have just welded the stupid thing together for all the pain I went through getting them off. Now I just stick with grade eight and torque 'em down.

[ntsqd]

Originally Posted by lehiguy

I too learned this the hard way. I used SS fasteners on my headers where they connect to the collector pipe. Bad idea. I could have just welded the stupid thing together for all the pain I went through getting them off. Now I just stick with grade eight and torque 'em down.

As long as we're hi-jacking; SS fasteners are basically a Grade Zero bolt. Using SS bolts & nuts together nearly always results in them being seized unless anti-sneeze or similar is used.
For exhaust I use brass nuts on either SS or G5 bolts. I've never, ever had one come loose. Patch has had 6 bolted together couplers in it's exhaust system for 3-ish years & I've done this on previous vehicles. My theory is that the brass expands more than the steel when hot which actually increases the tension in the bolt. And since brass can't rust to the bolt, the joints always come loose.
Resume Thread?

[Tinker]

Wy Ben -
No telling why the Spook is, but El Bert & I have 5.7 Vortecs & it's the easiest way to get (more than) adequate cooling.

El Bert -
I'm with ya on the OEM Contour mounts, but I'm too lazy to go to the junkyard & then fab up something that would be as much or more trouble than the angle you used. I'm going to look for 3/4x3/4 aluminum angle (have the Ron Davis rad like you) tomorrow & mount mine like the Spook, except in addition I'll put the angle on the top & bottom to cover the gaps. Also planning on using the plastic in the tabs I cut off to plug all the little holes (melt it down with a temp-controlled soldering iron). Gonna mount the 2nd controller on the radiator bulkhead, though (1 Flex-a-Lite can only handle 1 Contour fan) & have the passenger side come on at a lower temp.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Wy Ben -
No telling why the Spook is, but El Bert & I have 5.7 Vortecs & it's the easiest way to get (more than) adequate cooling.

El Bert -
I'm with ya on the OEM Contour mounts, but I'm too lazy to go to the junkyard & then fab up something that would be as much or more trouble than the angle you used. I'm going to look for 3/4x3/4 aluminum angle (have the Ron Davis rad like you) tomorrow & mount mine like the Spook, except in addition I'll put the angle on the top & bottom to cover the gaps. Also planning on using the plastic in the tabs I cut off to plug all the little holes (melt it down with a temp-controlled soldering iron). Gonna mount the 2nd controller on the radiator bulkhead, though (1 Flex-a-Lite can only handle 1 Contour fan) & have the passenger side come on at a lower temp.

For plugging the holes, I just used JB Weld. Ain't pretty, but I know it'll never come undone

[Moby]

I used adhesive foam to fill the minor gaps between the fan shroud and the rad on my install.

Just a quick update on my setup - I'm currently on a road trip. A couple of weeks before I left we got some 90+ degree weather in Seattle. I've been running my built motor, Ron Davis rad, Contour fan/DCC controller for a year and a half but it had never seen really hot temps so I gave it a test. I turned the a/c to high and drove out I-90 into the mountains. And I hit 215 degrees on my Nordskog gauge (plumbed into my tstat housing). Max I had seen previously was ~200 for short periods. Normally I'm stable at ~190.

I knew that I was going to see sustained 100+ temps on this trip so I started thinking about how to increase my cooling capacity. Waterpump was replaced with the rebuild, all belts and hoses in good shape, but there is my 12x12 tranny cooler blocking airflow to the rad. So I ditched it and mounted a Derale heat sink cooler behind the front bumper (after the in-rad cooler). Not as good as what I had but much better airflow to the rad. So fingers crossed we headed out...

I am not easy on my engine. 12+ hours at 2500rpms (70) with long pulls at ~3300rpms. Worst conditions were probably between Redding and Sacramento - temps over 100. With the a/c on Hi and hauling at 70mph engine temp was stable at ~198. Max that I saw was 207 on one of those long 3300rpm pulls.

So far I'm pretty happy with how this setup is working in hot temps with sustained high engine loads. More in a week or so when I'm back.

[ntsqd]

I'm wondering how the trans temp was doing during those times?

[Moby]

Originally Posted by ntsqd

I'm wondering how the trans temp was doing during those times?

At highway speeds the torque converter is locked up. This reduces slippage which cuts down on the heat. I'm also running a Rodney stage I Extreme valvebody which also reduces the heat by increasing clapping force on the clutch packs and giving me 3rd gear lockup in addition to the stock 4th gear lockup. So while I know I'm not getting as much cooling with the heat sink cooler I figure I've still got better than stock cooling. I do have tranny temp gauge ready to go in though, if I don't like what I see from that I'll go to a cooler with an integrated fan and mount it under the bed.

[Spook50]

Aaaaaaaand steering the thread back on track.......time for an overdue update

I finished replacing all the coolant hoses (finally) so I can get back to the fan conversion. I pulled the dash out to install the indicator light for the fan (also ordered from DC Control) and since I had it out, beefed up and repaired all the weak spots with JB Weld (that plastic's brittle after 21 years). The dash is reinstalled and all the interior wiring is finished. I already had a hole in my firewall for the cruise control wiring, so I fed the fan wiring through that and wrapped it all in electrical tape to protect the wire insulation from the metal edge (couldn't get a grommet in there like I would've preferred). I mounted the light right near the temp area of my quad gauge just so everything stays organized aesthetically.


Couple pics of the kill switch mounted in place of the factory transfer button. If I could match the paint color and label it better, I coulda made that thing look factory...




Don't mind the duct tape on the steering column cover. The screw posts are broken and I'm still trying to find a replacement
I'm just down to "de-ghetto-izing" the wiring in the engine bay from when I added the ignition and made some band-aid repairs in the past. Then I just have to add the last of the connectors and mount the fan assembly in there for good. Everything is crimped, soldered and shrinkwrapped, except for the Weatherpak connectors, since they've got a damn good hold on the wiring and are sealed against the elements to begin with.

Really hope this thing works after all this effort I've put into "doing it right the first time"...

[effjay60]

I'm all hot to do this, literally. But I can't find any info on the web regarding delta's products. All I get is a page that says: "
Email
Now serving:
Corral.net
Stangnet.com
Pro-Touring.com"

is that all there is to the website?

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by effjay60

I'm all hot to do this, literally. But I can't find any info on the web regarding delta's products. All I get is a page that says: "
Email
Now serving:
Corral.net
Stangnet.com
Pro-Touring.com"

is that all there is to the website?

If you go to the main website that's what you end up with. You have to actually go straight to the 'index.html' to get their home page. I got duped by this for quite some time and was thinking they had gone out of business or something.

[Chupatngy]

Hey Spook,
I just got my FK-35 in the mail last night. Those of you looking to order one expect 3-4 weeks before it shows up on your door step. Here is the link to the install page from there you should have no problem ordering it. Just a quick question on your wiring. It looks like you are running a fuse from battery + to battery -. Am I just looking at it wrong?

[Chupatngy]

Nevermind my question I didnt realize that you had the FK-60. I was looking at the install for mine and looked at your pictures. Oh and for the record I was wrong on the website also,main page for DCC is Delta Current Control.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by Chupatngy

Nevermind my question I didnt realize that you had the FK-60. I was looking at the install for mine and looked at your pictures. Oh and for the record I was wrong on the website also,main page for DCC is Delta Current Control.

Yeah it's a little doohicky that's necessary for running a dual fan assembly. Basically a current filter is my understanding. I think Moby was the one who found out it's needed when using dual fans.

[snowbored]

Thanks to this thread and the other Contour fan ones my SBC FJ60 is now running cooler. Before I had to run my heater at about 3/4 the way to hot to stay cool in traffic. With this setup I no longer have to do that, and I got to ditch the flex fan the PO had used. Thank you all so much. I cheapened out and used the Hayden 3652 from Amazon (we'll see how long it lasts). I almost sh*t a brick as I slipped spreading the fins and thought I was going to need a new radiator But all was good.

[MiniPigg]

Dude.. This is BY far one of the most AWESOME mods I have ever done on any of my cruisers. The fans are a perfect fit. Easy to install and wire up. I had my two fans wire to two separate switches. That way I would be able to keep the lower power fan on for most of the time. If need be I would be able to turn on the bigger fan. Now I have the smaller fan wire to a thermostat and it turns the first fan on at 185. It is hard wired to the battery for now. I like it this way so far because after I turn the truck off when the water gets hot due to lack of circulation the fan will turn back on and cool the radiator and blow air on the engine. I also have a small lamp that lights up when the smaller fan is on.
I still have the other fan that pushes more air to a switch.

After the install... I took a sheet of paper, turned on the fans, held it outside the front of the FJ62 grill, about 6 to 7 inches, dropped the paper and it sucked the paper against the grill. If that isnt moving some serious air I am not sure what is.

Now I need a damp towel.... brb

[Spook50]

Well after a bit of trouble today with rewiring my Mallory ignition box (cleaned up all the crimped connectors and put on new soldered butt connectors and Weatherpak stuff, and cleaned up the mess of multicolored spaghetti under the hood), I fired up the engine, burped the cooling system, let it warm up, and it works beautifully! I haven't driven it yet because my tabs are expired (going to go get new ones tomorrow, along with pics of the final installation), but I'm eager to see how my mileage fares when I drive across the state on Friday, which is a 300 mile trip. Going over the pass should be interesting too, as I'm told the extra HP really helps with long hill climbs. I have yet to dial in the best temperature for the fan to maintain (I have the adjustable controller that uses a potentiometer to set the temperature), but so far it's awesome. Kicks right to 50% power when I turn n the A/C and man this thing MOVES air.

Overall I'm very happy with the install and the fact that I took my time to do the job right. It looks almost factory, the wiring is neat and tidy, and the fan assembly itself is secure as all hell.

I'm still going to keep my eyes open for a set of Bosch motors to swap into the housing, just for the peace of mind and reliability. It looks like both motors are identical, so I'm going to get a couple spares to keep with me as well, just in case.

Again, pics tomorrow. I've gotta bolt for now so I can try to talk the GF into cooking some dinner...

[Spook50]

This is the last pic update after testing and driving around today with the Contour fan. IT ROCKS!

I'm definitely glad I got the indicator light, if for nothing else that I can tell when the fan is coming on. It usually comes on at low power when I'm sitting in gear at a stop light or lugging up a fairly steep hill. Only time I've seen it go up to 100% is when I turn on the A/C while using the jumper on the controller (which will run the fan at 50% at all times, higher when needed, and 100% all the time when the A/C is on) I don't use the jumper. Haven't seen a need for it yet, but I do keep it handy in the front lip of my Tuffy.

The indicator light showing the fan is off. The green color is fairly dim. Just bright enough to see in daylight, but looks like it should be easy to tolerate at night. I'll find out tonight on my way to work I guess.


At 50% power (a yellow/orage color).


And at 100% power. It get continuously brighter as it moves from green to red, which is why there's hardly any difference between this pic and the last one. It's very easy to see when you're looking at it in person though. I also noticed that as power increases, the light actually fades between the colors, giving a faily accurate measurement of what power level the fan is at once you get used to the shades the light travels through. Where the temp gauge is at is where it stays when I'm driving it. Just a hair under that line, even when lugging up a steep hill. Can't wait to see how it holds when I'm cranking up Steven's Pass in 3rd gear.


Like I said, I took my time to make sure the wiring is in tip-top shape and as clean an installation as I could get it. Notice that I used a Weatherpak connector for the A/C, light signal input, and IGN input leads. I freakin love these things.


And the power connector. I ziptied the tubing to one of my A/C lines just to keep it from flopping about as I drive. Think I have enough shit running off of my battery?


And last of all, a quick show-off pic to show how I cleaned up the wiring under my hood. I redid my ignition wiring and made a run of split loom going the full length of the wire run. Looks far better than before IMHO. The stuff on the hood is Dynamat Hoodliner in the recessed spots and Dynamat Xtreme on the ribs. The ribs are also filled with Great Stuff expanding foam. Looks messy, but it works awesome. Very quiet when my hood is down, and even when the engine is at its hottest (like after 300 miles of going about 75MPH), the top of the hood is nice and cool to the touch. I also went ahead and removed the carb/manifold cooling fan, since I've only seen the thing come on once in the 10 years I've owned the truck. Freed up some space, and it's one less thing that can possibly short out and drain the battery (which it did with my old battery several years ago when the sensor went bad).

[Spook50]

Just thought I'd through in some more info and some observations from my drive across the state today, now that I've driven the truck more and been able to see more of how the assembly and controller work in the real world. this thing is fantastic. My driveway has a short, steep slope to get out of it, so I usually gun it to get out. The first time I drove my 62 with the electric fan in it, I gunned it to get out of the driveway like usual, and damn near launched it into the parking lot across the road. Losing the clutch fan frees up a ton of low end power so you can get moving quickly off the line. Highway power is significantly increased too. I was able to hold hills far better than before and spent alot less time in 3rd gear going up the passes than I usually do. Cruise control is great and holds speed far better as well. I'm a good ways farther up the hills before I actually have to put my foot on the gas to keep up speed.

Here's the real kicker though: Since I put 31" mud terrains on my 62, I'd been averaging 10 MPG. Since fixing the fuel pressure surge dampner, I would average 12 MPG (on a good day) on long highway hauls. I figured my mileage today after driving 300 miles across Washington State, and I got 15.8 MPG! At first I thought I punched a number in wrong on the calculator, so I did it again. Sure enough. Over a 3 MPG increase in fuel economy thanks to losing the clutch fan. It's possible my clutch was starting to go out on me, but when I removed it I could still easily turn it by hand, when when it was installed and the engine running cool, it spun very slowly until things heated up.

Something I've noticed though with the indicator light that I'd like to correct is that when I'm at highway speeds, the air moving through the radiator will spin the fan blades, which (if no power is being put to the motors by the controller) will generate a current with what seems to be a reverse voltage in the power and ground leads for the fan motors. This is causing the indicator light to go out when I'm above 55 MPH. I slow down below that and it comes back on. Or, if the fan is actually running, no matter what speed I'm at, the light works as advertised. I think this could be solved with the right diode in the light's signal wire (which is connected to the fan motor power output on the controller), or perhaps a large (or several small ones mounted in parallel) diode on the power leads to both motors, to prevent any current from flowing backwards through the power leads. Any electrical gurus care to chime in on this?

[Tinker]

I was under the impression that the OEM fan clutch disengaged once the air flow from the truck moving exceeded that of the fan driven by the engine. An electric fan compounds the inefficiencies of the alternator with the inefficiencies of the fan motor(s). A mechanical fan only has friction (& blade & shroud design) for power loss. So your power gain when you leave your driveway may be due to the engine still being cold causing the fans to be off.

So it sounds like your mechanical fan clutch was toast. And I didn't realize 62s had carb fans without float bowls for the gas to boil out of. If you don't vapor-lock, you don't need it.

Can't wait to get the aluminum angle to mount my Contours. I've overheated at low speeds in the mountains with the single Spal & crapo shroud that doesn't even cover the whole radiator core.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by Tinker

I was under the impression that the OEM fan clutch disengaged once the air flow from the truck moving exceeded that of the fan driven by the engine. An electric fan compounds the inefficiencies of the alternator with the inefficiencies of the fan motor(s). A mechanical fan only has friction (& blade & shroud design) for power loss. So your power gain when you leave your driveway may be due to the engine still being cold causing the fans to be off.

So it sounds like your mechanical fan clutch was toast. And I didn't realize 62s had carb fans without float bowls for the gas to boil out of. If you don't vapor-lock, you don't need it.

Can't wait to get the aluminum angle to mount my Contours. I've overheated at low speeds in the mountains with the single Spal & crapo shroud that doesn't even cover the whole radiator core.

I'm sure it was due to the fan being off. I'm honestly surprised with how little it really comes on, with my engine staying at a good constant temperature. It's interesting that the fan mostly comes on after I've been stopped in gear for about 20 seconds, and for maybe a bit less than a minute once I start moving again, then it stays off. Highway speeds if I'm not lugging up long hills in 3rd gear, the fan stays off. I think that the alternator powering the fan motors still puts alot less drage on the engine than the clutch fan does, even when disengaged. From what I could tell with my OEM fan clutch and others that I've looked at a junkyards, there's still always just a tiny bit of friction on the clutch that makes the fan slowly turn when it's not hot enough to engage the clutch.

As far as the carb fan, my impression is the same as yours. I don't know why toyota left it there on the 62s. Maybe for helping with high exhaust manifold temps (reduce heat soak perhaps?) in hot weather, since the sensor for it is mounted right above the manifold. It's never been hot enough for mine to come on (except the couple times the sensor shorted out and kicked the fan on...and left it on and killed my battery), so I pulled it completely.

[Moby]

I've now overheated (>215 degrees) twice with my Contour fan. Even the the engine never reach the critical point the temp was climbing like a rocket and the fan was running full steam but wasn't able to control the temp so I had to pull over. Both times were highway speeds, A/C on, loaded down, pulling hills in 3rd full throttle in 85+ degree weather. The first was with my 11x11 aux tranny cooler up front, the second was after I removed it (this was after my post above).

These are not typical conditions for me. For the majority of the last 2 years that I've run this fan I've had no problems (the fan doesn't run much either around town or on the highway, typically the same as what Spook reports above). However I do see conditions like this at least once a summer on road trips. Also somewhat disturbing was the constant 200 degrees that I saw during sustained 70mph driving in 100 degree temperatures.

My engine was rebuilt 9,000 miles ago and is very healthy & strong. My cooling system is in good shape (belts, hoses, rad cap, and water pump were all replaced during the rebuild, water pump/alt belt is still in good shape and tight). I'm also running a Ron Davis aluminum rad and a 175 alt amp that both went in during the rebuild.

Prior to next summer I'm probably going to pull this fan and replace it with either the Mark VIII that is sitting in my shop in a custom shroud or a custom shroud with dual 12" SPAL H.O. fans that pull ~1900cfm (per fan) and are designed for high static pressure (like my very crowded engine compartment). I'm also going to be installing hood vents.

Anyway, there is my experience to date. I've never had a problem at slow speeds regardless of air temp. Maybe I've got something going on with my particular setup, I'm not sure. I'm more inclined to think that for 98% of the time this fan is more than adequate but that there are some scenarios that it can't handle.

[Moby]

[quote=Tinker;3672497]
So it sounds like your mechanical fan clutch was toast. And I didn't realize 62s had carb fans without float bowls for the gas to boil out of. If you don't vapor-lock, you don't need it.[quote]

The "carb fan" is there to combat vapor lock in the EFI fuel rail.

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by Moby

I've now overheated (>215 degrees) twice with my Contour fan. Even the the engine never reach the critical point the temp was climbing like a rocket and the fan was running full steam but wasn't able to control the temp so I had to pull over. Both times were highway speeds, A/C on, loaded down, pulling hills in 3rd full throttle in 85+ degree weather. The first was with my 11x11 aux tranny cooler up front, the second was after I removed it (this was after my post above).

These are not typical conditions for me. For the majority of the last 2 years that I've run this fan I've had no problems (the fan doesn't run much either around town or on the highway, typically the same as what Spook reports above). However I do see conditions like this at least once a summer on road trips. Also somewhat disturbing was the constant 200 degrees that I saw during sustained 70mph driving in 100 degree temperatures.

My engine was rebuilt 9,000 miles ago and is very healthy & strong. My cooling system is in good shape (belts, hoses, rad cap, and water pump were all replaced during the rebuild, water pump/alt belt is still in good shape and tight). I'm also running a Ron Davis aluminum rad and a 175 alt amp that both went in during the rebuild.

Prior to next summer I'm probably going to pull this fan and replace it with either the Mark VIII that is sitting in my shop in a custom shroud or a custom shroud with dual 12" SPAL H.O. fans that pull ~1900cfm (per fan) and are designed for high static pressure (like my very crowded engine compartment). I'm also going to be installing hood vents.

Anyway, there is my experience to date. I've never had a problem at slow speeds regardless of air temp. Maybe I've got something going on with my particular setup, I'm not sure. I'm more inclined to think that for 98% of the time this fan is more than adequate but that there are some scenarios that it can't handle.

I would think, especially with the new radiator (aluminum and higher performance, isn't it?) maybe your thermostat is buggered up? Not opening all the way or something like that. Or maybe there's an air bubble in your cooling system (not likely, since I'm sure you haven't drained it since putting your cooling system back together, but just throwing it out there). One thing I did because it's supposed to help maintain constant engine temps and somewhat help with cooling is add some Water Wetter when I filled the cooling system this time. I can't testify that it works, but I haven't even come close to overheating while climbing up steep hills in the same conditions as you described, but only about 85 degrees or so. What's your factory temp gauge showing when you hit 215 degrees? Is it coming up on the red?

[Tinker]

Moby -
This may sound ridiculous (kinda like checking to see if the TV is plugged in), but are the fans pulling air through the radiator and not pushing? I know the connectors on my Dorman Contour fans aren't identified +/-: just had to test 'em to tell how to wire 'em.

Waggoner was running a 502 Merc with his Contour setup & never saw it overheat in Texas. There's gotta be something else wrong.

[snowbored]

Moby, if you turned the heater on, was that enough more cooling to start it coming back down? Just curious how much more cooling you need. Last weekend when I went for my first test run I really pushed it up some big hills here (technically mountains) and while I did go up from 185 to 200, that seemed acceptable for how hard I was pushing it. My engine bay is pretty empty with my old school carbed 350, but I have an old radiator and a TH350 that doesn't leave me low reving at high speeds. Now you've got me nervous :(

[Elbert]

I have the same fans, on an aluminum radiator with 350 vortec, mine runs about 200, it has a 195 thermostat. Will get to around 210 on long steep hill, I've never seen it go past 210. I run SPAL relay harnesses with a SPAL temp switch in the passenger cylinder head that turns the fans on and off. I did have a older model SPAL fan controller unitil it went up in smoke. I don't have my A/c up and running yet, but the condnesor is in front of the radiator and I have an engine oil cooler in front of that, on one side. I would make sure the fans are running like they should and you have the proper guage wire. I ran about half the summer with this setup, prior to that I had an aftermarket 4 core brass radiator with one large 16 inch SPAL high performance fan and a fabricated shroud, which let the single spal fan pull air through the entire radiator. Due to the size of the spal fan and the proxcimity of the fan to the water pump I could not mount the spal fan in the center of the radiator. I ran approx the same temps... but a litte hotter on the hwy. THe SPAL high performance fans work, but they also take plenty of power and they make some noise. The ford fan setup is better I think , because it pulls air better across the entire width of the radiator. I bet the dual SPAL fan 12 or 13 inch fans would be good too, I almost went with those.

For those with the I-6 stock engine...
I have a 140 Amp Alternator on my 350... I know the stock LC alternators are like 55amps.. How do you have enough AMPS to really power electric fans appropriatley. That may be your problem?

[Spook50]

Originally Posted by Elbert

For those with the I-6 stock engine...
I have a 140 Amp Alternator on my 350... I know the stock LC alternators are like 55amps.. How do you have enough AMPS to really power electric fans appropriatley. That may be your problem?

Stock for a 60 is 55 IIRC, and stock for a 62 is 80, with a 140 available from Mean Green and a (now difficult to find) 120A flavor that used to be available from Beck/Arnley. I run the 120A, and now that I've had it completely rebuilt by a good local shop, it charges beautifully. I also augmented my charging system by adding a 1AWG welding cable from the alt to the batt+ terminal, in addition to the stock chargeing cable.

[snowbored]

Another thought about your issue Moby. Do you only have distilled water in your rig? Other water with impurities could change the boiling point and mess things up. You shouldn't be so close that that would be an issue, but another thought.