V8 Swap Confusion

[jacksfj62]

I am planning on a V8 + 5-speed swap in a few months. However I am completely confused as to which way to go. I know 350TBI is probably the cheapest but what is recommended by the majority of you that are doing swaps. I have called around a lil here and there trying to get decent prices on engine packages, even found a tundra 4.7 for $1600 with 36K on it but don't know if anyone has done a Toyota 4.7 swap yet. I have done quite a bit of research but really want to get the opinions of what most of you are running what works and what is reliable for expedition/long range camping rig

[rchalmers3]

Wow! An all Toyota conversion! You will probably want to get the entire engine package with mounts, wiring, ECM and so on. Will you be under the auspice of the state for emissions compliance when you are done? If so, you may want to bone up on the conversions laws and methods of re-certification. Make sure you have uncle Sam's blessing, as it were.....

Rick

[jacksfj62]

I am not saying that I am doing a Toyota V8 conversion just looking around. I would like to but don't know how feasible it would be. I don't have to worry about the smog police since I have the option of registering in the south (perk of being military). My main question is just what is going to be the #1 Most Reliable V8, #2 Doesn't cost $10K, #3 Is Easy to repair in the field

[rchalmers3]

Originally Posted by jacksfj62

My main question is just what is going to be the #1 Most Reliable V8, #2 Doesn't cost $10K, #3 Is Easy to repair in the field

That would be the SBC for sure. On all points but especially on install price and future repairs.

Rick

[philos1]

vortec.



See Elbert's thread as well as Manuchao's and mine. Also don't forget all of Iaintscared's swaps. Everything you need should be in those threads.

[Toadhopper]

X2 on the vortec.
It seems to be the best power and feul efficency combo.
The 5.3L is a good one to look for.
Spend a couple hours going through everyone's posts so you can see whats involved.
I'm currently looking for a 5.3L right now, after selling a 383 stroker I had already started (D'oh)
Bryan

[PPFJ60]

I have a 383 TBI and it is straight forward to two work on. The TBI works great on and off road.

[lehiguy]

The beautiful part about building a Chevy is you can pick and choose from so many different sources. TBI is a wonderfully effective, reliable and relatively simple system that can be adapted to run motors with up to 350 horsepower quite easily. In stock form, no TBI Chevy was very impressive on the dyno, but they produced tons more power than a stock 2F ever had in it's wildest fantasies. Pick a good block. The Gen II blocks ('92 and newer Camaros, '96 and newer trucks with 350s) had four bolt main bearing caps, one peice rear main seals and roller lifters. Vortec heads are readily available, have fantastic flow rates and are probably the best cast iron head you can get. A mild cam, around 210 to 215 duration at .050, will put you around 300 to 330 horse with this combination using TBI (you will need a custom chip for your ECU and likely a larger throttle body or one from a big block, but these are easy things to do). I have been running this combination for years with a carb, the TBI part is going on this summer. Check out www.tbichips.com for some great information about what can be done with TBI. What's more, I found out after conversing with an engineer at the air quality division of the local health dept. that my mods did not break any laws. In fact, he thought what I had done was great because even with a carb I get better milage with the 350 than the 2F ever got. The TBI will increase it even more.

[PhilC64]

With the 4.7 you might run into problems with connecting the trans to the current t-case. If you take the Tundra t-case, it's a center output for the rear axle so you have to change out the rear as well. The 4.7 is a nice motor but it would be more difficult mating it to your 62 than what it's worth.

Go with the SBC to save yourself a headache

[rover67]

look at the vortec swaps.

mine was pretty cheap.

thread title was "new heart same soul"

ask me any questions if you have them.

[CruisinFJ60]

Originally Posted by lehiguy

The Gen II blocks ('92 and newer Camaros, '96 and newer trucks with 350s) had four bolt main bearing caps, one peice rear main seals and roller lifters. Vortec heads are readily available, have fantastic flow rates and are probably the best cast iron head you can get.

yes and no...

The LT1 found in 94-97 camaro's and t/a's ect did not have a 4 bolt main. It was a 2 bolt main and the block requires lt1 heads vortec's will not bolt onto this block. also the vette, camaro, forumla, t/a all had alum heads where as the caprice's and impallas with the lt1 has cast heads. again vortec heads will not bolt up to any LT1 (5.7l 350 )or L99(4.5l V8 from external view looks identical to Lt1 came in some caprices and i think some impallas as well) blocks.the vortec heads will bolt up to any gen 1 motor tho. and will bolt on to all the 5.7l 350 motors prior to the 5.3l.

The vortecs on the 5.7 have a tendancy to crack when they get hot as well so unlike some other heads if you get it hot you better pull the heads. I do agree however that the vortecs are a great addition to any regular 350 motor as they do flow much better. also on the vortec heads there are 2 dif designs and casting numbers. the cast number i do not know but i do know the better flowing head has a "sawtooth" type design on either end of the heads so it is easy to tell which one are which.

[TBIFJ40]

The 5.3 would be the best option for power to fuel efficiency. If you use something like painless wiring, its probably not a lot more expensive than a TBI. I do all my own wiring, so the TBI is the easiest, but Ive never tackled a vortec engine. Deffinitely worth looking at, tho. They (vortecs) are a little more expensive to maintain because there are more sensors, more injectors, and run higher fuel pressures than TBI, but picking up 5-8 MPG might be worth it.

[rchalmers3]

While the vortec may be the cats ass, I did a TBI swap and used the Chevy Blazer harness to save on the Painless? harness purchase. I simplified the harness by stripping out the unused circuits and wires, leaving me with a free harness that both plugged and played!

I'm mentioning this to reinforce what you already know and stated in your first post: The TBI conversion is the cheapest route to HP. Might be a good first project for you as well, since they are simpler than the vortec.

Rick

[jacksfj62]

Thanks for all the inputs. I am getting my TBI set up for my Scout in my sig in a couple weeks so that will be interesting. But for the Cruiser I was looking for what is going to be best all around since this will be my daily driver I like the 5.3L and 4.8s and would definately lean that way if there is no kidding 6-8 MPG over a TBI set up. What are most of you guys getting MPG wise for your respective swaps. That will probably be my biggest driver is to look at cost vs. MPG and balance the 2 out since gas is over $4/gal. I am not looking for a ton of power but just give her a good can O whip @$$

I have read most of the mentioned swaps on here with the exception of iaintsacared's and this is what really got me thinking of a v8

I have learned a lot and will continue until I get to break into my own version of the so called Chevota and Tahota

[Darkrealms]

Talk to Curt at Cruiser Outfitters about anything. He's helpful and was cheaper on all the parts I needed for my 383 small block swap.

My carb is a 650 Edlbrock and running like crap, very rich, and I'm about ready to dump it. I'm getting around 8-9 mpg. Mines a bad example but that’s what its at.

This is also a real consideration got propane. Check your states laws but even in California it is legal if done right. Check your local laws. Plus $900 + tank and its $2.50-2.75 a gal + tax (here in Oregon).

[CruisinFJ60]

Do NOT get the 4.8l it is underpowered and not worth it IMOP. if your gonna go newer do the 5.3. It really is an easy swap to do. It even uses teh same bellhousing adapter as the regular SBC.
It will yeild a lil better fuel miledge (dunno bout 6-8) which will varry depending on ones driving habits, gears, transmission, ect.

[jacksfj62]

Originally Posted by lehiguy

The beautiful part about building a Chevy is you can pick and choose from so many different sources. TBI is a wonderfully effective, reliable and relatively simple system that can be adapted to run motors with up to 350 horsepower quite easily. In stock form, no TBI Chevy was very impressive on the dyno, but they produced tons more power than a stock 2F ever had in it's wildest fantasies. Pick a good block. The Gen II blocks ('92 and newer Camaros, '96 and newer trucks with 350s) had four bolt main bearing caps, one peice rear main seals and roller lifters. Vortec heads are readily available, have fantastic flow rates and are probably the best cast iron head you can get. A mild cam, around 210 to 215 duration at .050, will put you around 300 to 330 horse with this combination using TBI (you will need a custom chip for your ECU and likely a larger throttle body or one from a big block, but these are easy things to do). I have been running this combination for years with a carb, the TBI part is going on this summer. Check out www.tbichips.com for some great information about what can be done with TBI. What's more, I found out after conversing with an engineer at the air quality division of the local health dept. that my mods did not break any laws. In fact, he thought what I had done was great because even with a carb I get better milage with the 350 than the 2F ever got. The TBI will increase it even more.

Did you order your 350 or build it yourself, just curious since you were talking cams and did you run dual exhaust or a 2 into 1? Mind if I PM you to get some more info on the 350 itself.

[lehiguy]

Originally Posted by jacksfj62

Did you order your 350 or build it yourself, just curious since you were talking cams and did you run dual exhaust or a 2 into 1? Mind if I PM you to get some more info on the 350 itself.

I went cherry picking on my parts. I found a Gen II block for the roller lifters, four-bolt mains and one piece rear main seal, Vortec heads because they're available and make lots of power. I choose a cam based on the reccomendations of Comp Cams, an Extreme 4X4 roller cam with 206/210 duration at .050, .458 lift on a 111 degree LSA. The intake is an Edelbrock aluminum dual plane manifold for Vortec heads. The exhuast is block hugger headers into a single 3" pipe as room is limited and duals seemed like too much work. Carburation is Rochester because I understand them, they are insanely tunable if you learn how, they are virtually flood proof and there is 800 CFM available if you make the secondaries open all the way, but most 350s won't ever need that much. I got an HEI distributor and played around with different advance curves untill I got what I wanted. All in all, I love this engine, it has been so efficient and willing to power over anything, tow anything, go anywhere all on less fuel than the 2F used on it's best day. You can send a PM if you want, it's fine either way.

[rover67]

i got 16.5mpg cruising at about 70mph on my last trip.

5.3l vortec motor and h55f tranny rollin 35's SUA wiht th estock gears in the 60 in 4th.

[jacksfj62]

Originally Posted by rover67

i got 16.5mpg cruising at about 70mph on my last trip.

5.3l vortec motor and h55f tranny rollin 35's SUA wiht th estock gears in the 60 in 4th.

Not bad numbers at all with a brick on 35s.

I could handle that since I get 9-12MPG w/33x10.50 ATs stock gears and 2 1/2" OME

[oldwineo]

I have an '81 FJ60 with a stock 350 TBI from a '93 Chevy K1500 truck. NV4500 and stock t-case.
With the 33 inch BFG's I was getting 16 MPG on the Highway.

Not much difference in off road power/torque. But It's nice to be able to drop it down to third on the freeway and pass on a grade.

The funny thing is a ran a stroker 383 for a few years and highway mileage was close to the same.

The Vortec looks nice and might give you 1-2 more MPG then the TBI, but the only way you're going to get 18-20+ MPG is with a Diesel.

Ken

[lehiguy]

Originally Posted by rover67

i got 16.5mpg cruising at about 70mph on my last trip.

5.3l vortec motor and h55f tranny rollin 35's SUA wiht th estock gears in the 60 in 4th.

You're turning 35" tires with 3.70 gears? Yikes! No wonder you can't pull 5th gear. I just switched my H55 and Toyota T-case for an NV4500, NP241 and a semi floater six lug Chevy rear axle. My mileage went up by about 2 mpg to 17 MPG on my last trip to Moab. I'm running 4.56 gears, 35" tires and a carburated 350. A healthy 350.

[Downey]

Jacksfj62, after you purchase your engine (most popular swap being done now days is 5.3 with 4L60E, plus ECU and Harness---nothing cut---nothing missing), then call me for one of my famous A and B list. The A list is the things you might purchase from Downey (i.e. items not on the shelf in your home town). The B list is items we also offer, but if it's the economy plan, you might find some of this stuff on e-bay, swap meet, or hanging on your buddies garage wall.
Jim
(562) 949-9494

[jacksfj62]

Originally Posted by Downey

Jacksfj62, after you purchase your engine (most popular swap being done now days is 5.3 with 4L60E, plus ECU and Harness---nothing cut---nothing missing), then call me for one of my famous A and B list. The A list is the things you might purchase from Downey (i.e. items not on the shelf in your home town). The B list is items we also offer, but if it's the economy plan, you might find some of this stuff on e-bay, swap meet, or hanging on your buddies garage wall.
Jim
(562) 949-9494

I will definately keep Downey in mind I have been looking at the website and what you offer for the conversion

[lehiguy]

Originally Posted by CruisinFJ60

yes and no...

The LT1 found in 94-97 camaro's and t/a's ect did not have a 4 bolt main. It was a 2 bolt main and the block requires lt1 heads vortec's will not bolt onto this block. also the vette, camaro, forumla, t/a all had alum heads where as the caprice's and impallas with the lt1 has cast heads. again vortec heads will not bolt up to any LT1 (5.7l 350 )or L99(4.5l V8 from external view looks identical to Lt1 came in some caprices and i think some impallas as well) blocks.the vortec heads will bolt up to any gen 1 motor tho. and will bolt on to all the 5.7l 350 motors prior to the 5.3l.

The vortecs on the 5.7 have a tendancy to crack when they get hot as well so unlike some other heads if you get it hot you better pull the heads. I do agree however that the vortecs are a great addition to any regular 350 motor as they do flow much better. also on the vortec heads there are 2 dif designs and casting numbers. the cast number i do not know but i do know the better flowing head has a "sawtooth" type design on either end of the heads so it is easy to tell which one are which.

I think the cracking part is mostly rumor. I heard it years ago, and I recently asked a machinist who does nothing but heads. He said they are not any more prone to cracking than any other cast iron head. Anything can crack if you get it hot enough, but these are not troublesome that way.

[jacksfj62]

Finally ended up with a 5.3 Vortec/4L60E combo and will start on the conversion within the next couple of months while getting the rest of the parts together.