[GLTHFJ60]

Just finished tuning up my truck after gutting the entire emissions system, manifolds and rebuilding the carb. I reused the carb insulator plate, even though half of it is missing, but I think that all in all it came out pretty awesome.

Here are the headers: New Headers. The gasket that they come with is a pretty low quality unit, and is not the same as the one pictured. The one they send doesn't have crush rings. The gasket is probably going to leak, but I like working on my truck and without emissions it's going to be an hour and a half minute job to swap out the manifolds now.

Before putting the headers on, I painted them with some 1200 degree header paint so slow the rusting process. Note: let the paint fully cure before running the engine. Burning header paint smells horrible.

As for the emissions, I kept some of the systems because some of them actually help the truck run better. I kept the PCV, EVAP, SC, HAC, HAI, HIC, CB and the Deceleration Fuel Cut systems. I also tried to hook up the Choke Opener system, but it was eating too much vacuum so I plugged it. I'll figure that out another day. In short, there's still some tubes under my hood and it does look a bit like spaghetti, but for now it's working really well!

Tomorrow I'm having a new 2.5" exhaust put on with a 40 series flowmaster, so I'll post up some pics when that is done. Without an exhaust at all, it's LOUD!! Holy hell do the headers resonate.

The story is in the pictures, and you guys have all done the manifold install before, so it's not too much different.

[GLTHFJ60]

More pics....

[GLTHFJ60]

the last one...

As you can see, I modified the PCV tube that bolts to the front of the intake manifold. Like others, I cut off and capped the portion that used to go to the EGR valve.

Anyone else install headers for a desmog??

[klinetime574]

i'm in the process of it.



gotta rebuild the engine first

[lehiguy]

The original F gasket is the best you can get for that. It has the siamesed exhaust ports separated with a steel wrapped rib and will work well with your headers. I never had one fail as long as I got the header tight against the head.

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by lehiguy

The original F gasket is the best you can get for that. It has the siamesed exhaust ports separated with a steel wrapped rib and will work well with your headers. I never had one fail as long as I got the header tight against the head.

Really? I wish I heard about that before I put mine on. Oh well, like I said the process probably takes a bit more than a couple of hours now, so when this one fails I'll swap out to that one.

For everyone else, has anyone else installed headers on their 60? How do you like them??

[jasheehan]

Within the past 2 months, I:

-desmogged
-rebuilt carb (Jim C)
-recurved dissy (Jim C)
-new intake gasket
-tune up parts (plugs, wires, rotor, dissy, filters)
-added MAF 2 piece ceramic headers
-added fluid heat riser kit

It runs great. Other than having trouble getting the dissy put back in correctly, I didn't have any major issues. I just (2 days ago) put a new exhaust on it from the Cat back and that made a noticeable improvement. My muffler must have weighed 25 pounds when I pulled it off. Overall, I'm very pleased. I went back in and retorqued everything on the intake and all seemed well. Good luck. I can't comment on the longevity of a header, but I like mine. Pre desmog, I got 10 mpg, and now I get around 15 mpg.

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by jasheehan

Within the past 2 months, I:

-desmogged
-rebuilt carb (Jim C)
-recurved dissy (Jim C)
-new intake gasket
-tune up parts (plugs, wires, rotor, dissy, filters)
-added MAF 2 piece ceramic headers
-added fluid heat riser kit

It runs great. Other than having trouble getting the dissy put back in correctly, I didn't have any major issues. I just (2 days ago) put a new exhaust on it from the Cat back and that made a noticeable improvement. My muffler must have weighed 25 pounds when I pulled it off. Overall, I'm very pleased. I went back in and retorqued everything on the intake and all seemed well. Good luck. I can't comment on the longevity of a header, but I like mine. Pre desmog, I got 10 mpg, and now I get around 15 mpg.

Excellent! I'm planning on buying the fluid heat riser kit to help with cold weather starting. I am also going to do a complete tune up and re-curve the dist, but I have to let my bank account heal up after this stage. When I went to go start it up my old battery died so I sprung for an Optima, . Hopefully it works as well as they say it does!

I just got my new exhaust put on yesterday. It's a 2.5" system with a 40 series flowmaster and no cat. I love how it sounds!! Idling, it sounds like a v8. I also filled up yesterday, so we'll see what type of mileage I get. I got about 13 in the city, so I'm hoping for about 15 now. Nothing spectacular, but each additional mpg is about another 20 miles or so out of a tank, so I'm hopeful!

[GLTHFJ60]

So I've put about 180 miles on it so far and I love how it sounds. The power is there at slow speeds, but above about 45 mph, it feels really flat. I'm not sure if it's the timing or if it's the carb adjustment. After a desmog, do you guys drill out the idle mix screw and adjust it? What do you set the timing to, 7 deg advanced?

I can't wait to calculate the mileage. It's looking good!

[Overlord]

If you haven't already, when installing the fluid heat riser, I would use RTV. I didn't and it has leaked for over a year. Not a whole lot, but I need to fix it.

[IndianDoc]

See you are ahead of me again. Must work harder, smarter, etc. All kidding aside great shots of the install, noted that I need to move a stud if yours are in the right place. Luck for nowyou will be before me fer sure.

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by IndianDoc

See you are ahead of me again. Must work harder, smarter, etc. All kidding aside great shots of the install, noted that I need to move a stud if yours are in the right place. Luck for nowyou will be before me fer sure.

You're going to have to move a stud?? Alrighty then, well good luck! The stock setup has two studs, and those two are right where mine were. Makes it real easy to put manifolds or headers on; hang them on the studs there, thread in all the bolts and finally go ahead and torque them down!

By the way, I've got 200 miles on my setup already.Lookin' like it will be close to 15mpg city!!

[PAFJ]

Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60

You're going to have to move a stud?? Alrighty then, well good luck! The stock setup has two studs, and those two are right where mine were. Makes it real easy to put manifolds or headers on; hang them on the studs there, thread in all the bolts and finally go ahead and torque them down!

By the way, I've got 200 miles on my setup already.Lookin' like it will be close to 15mpg city!!

You running a cat?

[IndianDoc]

Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60

You're going to have to move a stud?? Alrighty then, well good luck! The stock setup has two studs, and those two are right where mine were. Makes it real easy to put manifolds or headers on; hang them on the studs there, thread in all the bolts and finally go ahead and torque them down!

By the way, I've got 200 miles on my setup already.Lookin' like it will be close to 15mpg city!!

Great, yea the shop that did the head work lost the studs and the mounting bolts, and I've misplaced my FSM so the photo was a big help. Maybe someday I'll get to hear your rig in person. LOL

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by PAFJ

You running a cat?

Nope. Got it inspected at my local midas the day I tore it apart, and when I did I asked about emissions equipment. They literally laughed at me and said "No way man. They only care about that downstate."

I had the exhaust installed at that same midas and they did a great job. Tucked it right into the body and kicked it out behind the tire.

Originally Posted by IndianDoc

Great, yea the shop that did the head work lost the studs and the mounting bolts, and I've misplaced my FSM so the photo was a big help. Maybe someday I'll get to hear your rig in person. LOL

I gotta tell you man, after the exhaust, my rig almost sounds like it has a 1HZin it!! I love it, and so does everyone I've shown so far.

Good luck with your head! The bolt pattern is really simple, so you shouldn't be too far behind.

[GLTHFJ60]

Little update: evap, choke opener and spark control systems are going to leave as well due to some advice from Kevin. I'm also going to advance the spark to 13 deg BTDC to try to get a bit more power and mileage out of this pig.

My carb leaks gas out of the two bolts in the float bowl, but changing out the crush washers should fix that.

On a good note, I've gotten 13.79, 14.23, 14.56 and 14.89 mpg on the past 4 tanks, so that's an improvement! That's mostly city too, so that's about a 1-2 mpg improvement.

After I get my lazy butt off of the forum, I'll go make those tweaks and report on the mileage.

[humper99]

I would not advance your timing beyond the 7 deg BTDC. With a desmog your going to pick up some detonation and advancing the timing will only worsen this. Sounds like you may have a bad vacuum advance on the dizzy or hooked up a vacuum line wrong. When my advance went bad it would flat spot like a bitch above 1800 rpm. Double check your vacuum line routing and that the advance is working properly first, then save up and send your dizzy to Jim C. for a recurve.

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm planning on removing the vacuum lines for the time being, therefore disabling the advance entirely. I don't have any detonation currently, so I'll advance until I get detonation then back off a degree or two. At this point, the flat spot isn't terribly noticeable, but it's there.

How do you test if the advance is bad?

As for Jim C, I'm confident that he does great work, but I prefer learning how to do things myself so that if it breaks, I can fix it. I've successfully rebuilt two carbs and currently my rig is getting better than stock mpg in the city, and it's 21 years old!!

[fliphkd778]

Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60

As for Jim C, I'm confident that he does great work, but I prefer learning how to do things myself so that if it breaks, I can fix it. I've successfully rebuilt two carbs and currently my rig is getting better than stock mpg in the city, and it's 21 years old!!

That's how I feel. Did you make any changes to make a carb desmogged?
I rebuilt mine and didn't see many too much to change...

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by PAFJ

You running a cat?

Originally Posted by fliphkd778

That's how I feel. Did you make any changes to make a carb desmogged?
I rebuilt mine and didn't see many too much to change...

I was going to drill out the idle mixture screw plug and play with that, but with 14.5 mpg in the city, I saw no need to! I did the standard rebuild then tuned the idle circuit, simple as that.

I went to CMCC this year, which was AWESOME (Thanks Dave, Jon, Mark and everyone who made that event amazing!) and the rig performed flawlessly. I bent up the tailpipe a bit and blew a motor mount, but there was plenty of power and no hiccups from the carb at any point during the trip.

Still gotta take off those systems, so there will be updates at some point.

[chitown40]

I usually drill out the idle-mixture screw when I rebuild as I've found that I needed to make a few small adjustments to the mixture after the rebuild.

As far as your power-drop off over 45mph, check your secondary on the carb and make sure it is opening.

[chris777]

I am curious to know why the "new style Headers" are called "new style".

I bought my headers from Man-A-Fre in 2002 and I love them. They were tuned, smog approved, came with the TOYOTA OEM gasket, had a laser cut flange, were two piece, and were hot jet coated inside and out. I haven't had the lightest problem with them in 6 years. They show no signs of rust. I do have them retorqued every couple of years. But I am a big fan of them and highly recommend them. Also bought the heat riser option and the cold weather starts are easy. The were $350 6 years ago, glad I didn't go the cheap route, though.

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by chitown40

I usually drill out the idle-mixture screw when I rebuild as I've found that I needed to make a few small adjustments to the mixture after the rebuild.

As far as your power-drop off over 45mph, check your secondary on the carb and make sure it is opening.

I might go back and try tuning the idle mixture screw then. I'm pretty happy with how it runs now, so it's probably going to be a while, but I'll do it. Thanks for the tip!!

As for the lack of power over 45, it seems to have gone away after putting some miles on it. Not sure if I'm just noticing it less, but either way I don't feel it anymore. Wierd, right?

Originally Posted by chris777

I am curious to know why the "new style Headers" are called "new style".

I bought my headers from Man-A-Fre in 2002 and I love them. They were tuned, smog approved, came with the TOYOTA OEM gasket, had a laser cut flange, were two piece, and were hot jet coated inside and out. I haven't had the lightest problem with them in 6 years. They show no signs of rust. I do have them retorqued every couple of years. But I am a big fan of them and highly recommend them. Also bought the heat riser option and the cold weather starts are easy. The were $350 6 years ago, glad I didn't go the cheap route, though.

The difference between your headers and mine is that your set has two separate collectors that requires a y-pipe after them to make a single tailpipe. While yours as well as mine have the same two-piece flange, my headers come down into a single collector, eliminating the need for a y-pipe.

[fliphkd778]

I liked what you did so much, I'm going to follow. I'm ordering a pair of maf headers tomorrow.
Also rebuilt a spare cylinder head for a little refreshment.

[GLTHFJ60]

Wow! A little more involved than my project, but I can guarantee that you'll love the results.

Three things though, while you have the head off, tap and plug the oil galley plug in the head. I forget what size tap fits in there, but there are a ton of threads on it. Secondly, when you're putting the headers in, hang them on the two manifold studs so that you can get those two small manifold bolts threaded first. Those little bastards made it difficult to get the manifolds on the first time I did this. Finally, the headers won't fit unless you take the EGR system completely out. The cooler is too big and interferes.

Other than that, good luck and keep us posted!!

[fliphkd778]

Read my mind; I was just going to ask about that cooler...
Excellent tips, much appreciated, I'll probably post up on the manifold when it comes in.
Does anyone remember the torque for the manifold studs/bolts?

[GLTHFJ60]

50 ft/lbs (California spec, but can't hurt with the headers), but do you remember the pattern?

[fliphkd778]

I didn't think there was a pattern, I was just going to alternate

[chris777]

Originally Posted by GLTHFJ60

The difference between your headers and mine is that your set has two separate collectors that requires a y-pipe after them to make a single tailpipe. While yours as well as mine have the same two-piece flange, my headers come down into a single collector, eliminating the need for a y-pipe.

I am of the opinion that you are placing way too much importance on that single collector. what is wrong with using a y-pipe if it works?

You are overlooking more important differences. The tuned ceramic headers by ManAFre that I have been running for 6 years are better in the following ways than your "new style header":

1. they are tuned (equal exhuast pressure in each pipe)

2. they are hot jet coated with ceramics inside and out. Mine have no signs of any rust after 6 years. they are still pretty.

3. mine came with the Toyota OEM gasket

4. mine has the heat riser option that allows for easy cold starts. (but perhaps yours does too.

5. I still like the idea of a true two piece header. Wouldn't it more likely mate perfectly with the head? I can't say for sure, but the above 4 reasons are enough for me.

The only downside is that they cost over $550 today with the heat riser and the y-pipe (plus delivery).

so, by "New Style Headers", you mean that these are the new style inexpensive and inferior headers. these are the ones I bought MAF Tuned Ceramic Coated Headers F and 2F Engines

I don't see what you are placing so much importance on mine needing a Y-pipe. I think the best thing about the "new style headers" is that they have borrowed the flange design of the headers I bought from them. It is thick. Doesn't say laser cut, but at least its thick. I think that is the most important design change of the new style headers.

If you are expecting more power and fuel economy it willl be so small you won' notice it. I went with these headers because I was sick of developing exhaust leaks with that inferior design of the factory exhaust manifold/header. I haven't had an exhaust leak since. Mine have been trouble free. I just make sure that they are re-torqued every 18 months or so.

I don't think that headers are something you want to save money on, because if you do, it could end up costing you a lot more time, money and hassle in the long run.

[GLTHFJ60]

Originally Posted by chris777

I am of the opinion that you are placing way too much importance on that single collector. what is wrong with using a y-pipe if it works?

You are overlooking more important differences. The tuned ceramic headers by ManAFre that I have been running for 6 years are better in the following ways than your "new style header":

1. they are tuned (equal exhuast pressure in each pipe)

2. they are hot jet coated with ceramics inside and out. Mine have no signs of any rust after 6 years. they are still pretty.

3. mine came with the Toyota OEM gasket

4. mine has the heat riser option that allows for easy cold starts. (but perhaps yours does too.

5. I still like the idea of a true two piece header. Wouldn't it more likely mate perfectly with the head? I can't say for sure, but the above 4 reasons are enough for me.

The only downside is that they cost over $550 today with the heat riser and the y-pipe (plus delivery).

so, by "New Style Headers", you mean that these are the new style inexpensive and inferior headers. these are the ones I bought MAF Tuned Ceramic Coated Headers F and 2F Engines

I don't see what you are placing so much importance on mine needing a Y-pipe. I think the best thing about the "new style headers" is that they have borrowed the flange design of the headers I bought from them. It is thick. Doesn't say laser cut, but at least its thick. I think that is the most important design change of the new style headers.

If you are expecting more power and fuel economy it willl be so small you won' notice it. I went with these headers because I was sick of developing exhaust leaks with that inferior design of the factory exhaust manifold/header. I haven't had an exhaust leak since. Mine have been trouble free. I just make sure that they are re-torqued every 18 months or so.

I don't think that headers are something you want to save money on, because if you do, it could end up costing you a lot more time, money and hassle in the long run.

I didn't mean to say that mine were better than yours, because they're not! Mine are called the new style headers, in my opinion, because they are the newer base line header.

If you want to talk about saving money, then I won't participate because they were a present. I can tell you that mine was rigid, however allowed for a tiny amount of flex which should be fine. Let's be honest, the head on our 2f's aren't exactly bending like waves.

The y-pipe is a minimal difference, but one more step that needs to be taken. It's not major at all.

As for power, probably no difference, but efficiency, ABSOLUTELY! 14.5 mpg city driving? That's better than the EPA rated our trucks to get in the 80's.

Now that you're done putting my recent upgrades below your own, have anything else to say?