propane daily driver

[Wile E Coyote]

Originally Posted by ontherox

Umm?? is it leagal to have a propane car as a daily diver??

Look closely at the next city bus or taxi you see in a large town, or any city. Many have been running LPG for quite some time. It's 100% legal if you use a supplier that sells LPG for vehicle use (only difference is it's taxed like other auto fuels). Otherwise, the LPG found at you're local station for general use is technically illegal to use d/t no tax levied. The more uptight suppliers will not fill your tanks w/ untaxed LPG if they clearly see how you're using it.

[samibattlemaiden]

any body know if 'pain is ca legal? ive heard speculation that it's not but wondering if any one knows for sure?

[GAS-A-LOT!]

thats the deal.... If I do it, I go dual fuel and get it smoged like nothings changed... CAll it a day. Kind of like when you ad an turbo to your non turbo car that does not have a CARB No. you just do it.... just a though...

[dp777usa]

Dual fuel is the only way to go. You still need to run gasoline through the engine every couple of fuel-ups or so. The liquid gasoline does lubricate the top end of the engine better than the propane gas, which is a dry burn with higher octane. In Argentina a lot of cars run on dual fuel--but it is natural gas compressed. Propane is different than natural gas, and much more volatile. Propane is a waste product (by-product) of the gasoline refining process. Natural gas comes out of the ground as natural gas. They tax propane as motor fuel if you buy it for your car. Otherwise it is a little cheaper if you are just buying it for your BBQ, but it is the same stuff. A Dual fuel system usually involves shut-off valves which shut off the gasoline flow and allows the propane gas to the air intake.

[GAS-A-LOT!]

Any one part numbers? What exactly does it need.... cheaper if you source the parts seperatly? Propaneguy says something like $800?

Natural Gas???? WTH? how n the hell you do that? If I could fill up at home (Natural gas) That would be pimpin! Any how back to propane....

Complete list of part No... anyone?

[Wile E Coyote]

Originally Posted by GAS-A-LOT!

...Natural Gas???? WTH? how n the hell you do that? If I could fill up at home (Natural gas) That would be pimpin! ...

Somewhat similar to propane/LPG. One big difference is that NG nets a roughly 25% power loss.

dp777usa: Care to share your source regarding the necessity for running gas every few fill-ups? I've not heard that one, and even as an admitted novice, remain skeptical. I bet the guys that run straight 'pane for the lifetime of some motors would disagree.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote

Somewhat similar to propane/LPG. One big difference is that NG nets a roughly 25% power loss.

dp777usa: Care to share your source regarding the necessity for running gas every few fill-ups? I've not heard that one, and even as an admitted novice, remain skeptical. I bet the guys that run straight 'pane for the lifetime of some motors would disagree.

5 years of straight pane and no worries yet. hell, the motor is cleaner than it was before...

the gas thing is a fallacy. Gasoline is more of a solvent than anything else. The only time it is handy is when you are dealing with a fuel injected motor that needs the fuel to prevent the injectors from sticking. Not typically a problem in this group..

Propane is a component of natural gas.. And, nat gas is kept as a gas instead of a liquid.. so, you have a larger tank for the mileage and the BTU's of nat gas are less. So you do have a decrease in power over propane.

Pane is not "much more volatile" than nat gas.. Nat gas is a higher octane so it does burn slower, but that is like saying that 87 octane gas is much more volatile than 92 octane gas..

[GAS-A-LOT!]

part No's?

[fjdemon]

Down in Colombia South America it is very common to run on propane. I had posted these pictures a long time ago, but they seemed to just get pushed to the bottom of the thread list. I'll post them again. I talked to a guy I met and he said it cost around $1500 u.s. to have it converted. However, that is in Colombia, and it was parts and labor. Doubtful you can get it for that price in the states.

[GAS-A-LOT!]

you could prolly get it for that much not including the tank.....

I take it that the 62 had a heart transplant.... looks doable..

[Nolan B.]

A relative of mine just did a compressed natural gas conversion and didn't notice in change in power.

[Sherpa 60]

Originally Posted by ontherox

Umm?? is it leagal to have a propane car as a daily diver??

Ditto on California. I believe the conversion has to be tested and certified by CARB for it to be legal here. Be interested to hear if anyone has done it?

[krookedpandas]

Originally Posted by GAS-A-LOT!

thats the deal.... If I do it, I go dual fuel and get it smoged like nothings changed... CAll it a day. Kind of like when you ad an turbo to your non turbo car that does not have a CARB No. you just do it.... just a though...

You know I was thinking... How many inspection shops are actually going to know you are running on propane?

I would say none...

[Max.Powerzz]

I don't want to rub it in but Utah has the cheapest propane in the country, something like .60 (that's not a typo, sixty cents!). I checked into it only very briefly and a conversion was going to cost around $7k, but that was with a very limited search and having a shop do everything. However, it would probably pay for itself. You can do the conversion in UT, but you can't buy propane cars off the lot here. Apparently you can only buy a propane car in California and a few other states, although hopefully that will change soon. All of the used propane cars in the states are being snapped up by Utahns and brought into the state. There are only a few stations in SLC that sell propane, but supposedly you can build a setup so you can fill up from home! Now if I just had an extra $7k lying around...

[motoloco]

I spoke to a LPG guru last weekend and he explained why dual fuel DOES NOT work well, made since why every one quit using dual fuel systems in the late 80's. Basically the motor HAS to be set up for propane ONLY to get the full benifits, you need a "mixer" instead of a carb and you run the timing at like 12 degree's advanced, this way you get as much or more power and MPG. The old school dual fuel will work but they dont do great on either fuel that way. I dont think you would have emmiss. issues seeing as LPG burns way cleaner than petrol burners. I checked into this because I want to propane my V8 80 series possibly.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by motoloco

I spoke to a LPG guru last weekend and he explained why dual fuel DOES NOT work well, made since why every one quit using dual fuel systems in the late 80's. Basically the motor HAS to be set up for propane ONLY to get the full benifits, you need a "mixer" instead of a carb and you run the timing at like 12 degree's advanced, this way you get as much or more power and MPG. The old school dual fuel will work but they dont do great on either fuel that way. I dont think you would have emmiss. issues seeing as LPG burns way cleaner than petrol burners. I checked into this because I want to propane my V8 80 series possibly.

Okay, the reason dual fuel is not the best option is that a motor has to be optimized to use pane. The higher relative octane of propane allows for a greater amount of advance without pinging and a higher compression ratio. Bu making these simple modifications you can reclaim some of the power loss issues. If you do not optimize the motor for propane. You will loose a bit of power. In most cruisers, that power loss is not huge by any means. They are a low power motor to begin with. A loss of 5 hp will not be significant.

Depending on the adjustment, a car on propane can give off at least as much is not more emissions than a well tuned gasser. It is all about adjustment. if it is running efficently, the decrease to pollutants is not that impressive.

$0.60/ gal and I would be driving my 40 all over the town. 7K for a conversion is nuts. www.propaneguy.com or Propane Conversion Kits Both are good guys..

[motoloco]

Thats pretty much what I said, although there is a reason they can run pane indoors commercialy, less noxious fumes (maybe not less harmfull to the enviorment?) where are you getting it that cheap?

[GAS-A-LOT!]

well... uh yeah...., dual fuel......
or....
straight pane and when it's time to smog, throw in the carb.... tee... heee. wont take that long any ways....

The wife and I decided to take the plunge... I'm looking at about 1600 including a 700 dollar dot approved pane tank..... has to be above 20 gal... that perticular one is 26 gal.... but I still need to look for the best fit.....

I'm thinking I will start searching for the tank in about 3 weeks...

[krookedpandas]

Well straight propane is not really a problem for me, I know where propane dealers are in just about every area that I travel to. However, I don't want to be running around the state without the peace of mind of having some gasoline if I need it. Lets say I was to do the dual fuel system and tune my engine to propane, but so need it that I need the gasoline I could just tune it back to its current setup. Would that be to much of a hassle? What all adjustments would need to be made?

[Mace]

easiest thing to do is run dual fuel set for pane and then bring some octane booster with you.

[krookedpandas]

Originally Posted by Mace

easiest thing to do is run dual fuel set for pane and then bring some octane booster with you.

well st I didn't even think about that...

[GAS-A-LOT!]

10-4!!! Mace, I like your style... The way you roll!

Since I got the rear storage upgrade, I can put some of that space to good use!

Mace, what kind/size, mixer are you using? I talked to pane guy and well... he's a pane guy. Not a cruiser guy... So I need to know how to ask for the right kit... set up? size?

also, my carb... I think she works fine.... should I rebuild? will it make a difference? It would have to go to the carb guru her on mud.

[Mace]

Another thought that I might have missed before.
If you are running dual fuel it is a good idea to run it on gasoline every so often to keep the carb gaskets fresh. if you run on pane for extended periods of time through the carb (the entire carb, not just the butterflies) the gaskets and seals will dry up in the carb. then it will run horribly when you switch it to gasoline.

I am running an impco 425 mixer. It is sized reasonably well for my motor. However, that motor is turbocharged remember, so I use a bit more fuel than a typical 2F.
Impco model E vaporizer. And use whatever flow controll valve you want (electric or vac operated)
The 425 bolts to a Holley 4 barrel baseplate/butterflies. Which makes it simple for me (good thing).

See if the pane guys have a size for the Jeep six. Shoudl be easily adaptable. I know thepropaneguy did a conversion of a cruiser carb to propane for LT. Donno if he still has it or remembers the necessary conversion or not.

[GAS-A-LOT!]

Just talked to him... should be ordering the kit from him in about 2 weeks... while I look for a tank.... will keep dual fuel. Asked about DOT.... guess his kits are not DOT? don't matter anyways.. I will be running dual fuel... pane when off-road and gas on-road

oh and he mentioned a 200? a little small? I will follow up with him latter.... who is LT? just the size of the mixer is what I'm looking for....

[krookedpandas]

Originally Posted by GAS-A-LOT!

Just talked to him... should be ordering the kit from him in about 2 weeks... while I look for a tank.... will keep dual fuel. Asked about DOT.... guess his kits are not DOT? don't matter anyways.. I will be running dual fuel... pane when off-road and gas on-road

oh and he mentioned a 200? a little small? I will follow up with him latter.... who is LT? just the size of the mixer is what I'm looking for....

Haha Your going to beat me to it! I'm looking at another month or so of work before I do anything. When you get all of your final stuff could you post up a price?