NO front brakes / NO fluid during bleed - I've searched and searched for the answer

DblTap · 04-16-08, 07:05 PM

Okay, I have searched this until I am blue in the face!

I cannot find the answer and I can't be the only person this has ever happened to. I took my calipers completely off of the truck when I replaced the front pads. When I put them back on, I now have no front brakes whatsoever. When jacked up with the brake pedal pushed all the way down, the wheels still spin freely. I bled the rear brakes just fine. The front ones have no fluid coming out of them when I try to bleed them. It has been suggested that I perhaps put them on the wrong sides when I reinstalled them. I don't believe that is the case as the bleeder nipples are on top. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

smtyblt · 04-16-08, 07:19 PM

1. it is possible u emptied out the master cylinder and it now has an air pocket

2. double check your bleeders and make sure they are not clogged

3. if all else fails fill master break the bleaders loose and walk away for 30 or 40 minutes they will eventually self bleed if there is a pocket.

4. worst case your master took a shit and it is internally bypassing ( I dought it thow)

cfdlighthouse · 04-16-08, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smtyblt

1. it is possible u emptied out the master cylinder and it now has an air pocket

2. double check your bleeders and make sure they are not clogged

3. if all else fails fill master break the bleaders loose and walk away for 30 or 40 minutes they will eventually self bleed if there is a pocket.

4. worst case your master took a **** and it is internally bypassing ( I dought it thow)

x2 fill the master up and open your bleeders walk away and fluid should flow. if no fluid flows check the lines for any crimps if that hard line to the caliper gets in a bind when you screw the line back in you can twist the line internally effectively sealing it off. i almost did that when i put my new calipers on.

just a thought

good luck

djanis99 · 04-16-08, 07:57 PM

when you replaced the calipers and disconnected the lines did fluid come out? If you disconnect the lines at the calipers does fluid come out if yes than problem is with calipers. Take the bleeder screw completely out(it just unscrews) how about now? process of elimination also I beleive on a 60/62 there is a proportioning valve to adjust brakes for weight of truck

DblTap · 04-18-08, 05:27 PM

Okay, I took out the bleeders and replaced them with new ones. One of the old ones was obstructed and the other one was stripped due to PO using regular wrench instead of brake line wrench. I left them completely open for an hour before putting the new ones in. NO FLUID! No, there is no fluid coming out when disconnecting the lines from the calipers. One other quick note: Prior to this whole fiasco, I was having problems with the front brakes locking up every time I drove it. I "THINK" that was due to an air bubble but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, I am not having that problem any more since I disconnected the calipers. It's just now that I have absolutely NO front brakes. I'm pulling my hair out! (what little I have left.

)

Mace · 04-18-08, 05:48 PM

you probably broke a chunk of crud loose.

Fill the cup
Start working your way back from the brake line T on your axle (flex line to axle)
Figure otu where the clog is and either clear it out, or better, replace the offending unit..

DblTap · 04-18-08, 05:54 PM

A Co-worker suggested blowing out the lines with the air compressor. Is this a good idea and if so, is there anything I should know prior to starting?

Mace · 04-18-08, 05:57 PM

if your pedal won't blow the lines out, the compressor wont.

Start disconnecting the lines working your way back to the master.

DblTap · 04-18-08, 07:54 PM

Thank you for taking the time to help me. I really appreciate it! After 2 1/2 hours, the drivers side started to leak fluid. However, the passenger side did not. When I disconnected the line to the caliper, I immediately got fluid so I would say it is down to the passenger side caliper has an obstruction. How do I get it out? Thanks again.

DblTap

Mace · 04-18-08, 10:03 PM

if your caliper is clogged you pretty much need to either rebuild it or replace it.

My vote is replace.

Lance Lucas · 04-18-08, 11:18 PM

I would at least try closing all of the functioning lines/bleeders and leaving the offender open while pumping the pedal for awhile.

DblTap · 04-19-08, 09:03 AM

Okay, this is where I'm at. brake fluid comes out of the line going into the caliper when I disconnect it and I can blow air and residual fluid out of one opening on the caliper by by blowing compressed air into the other opening on the caliper. I have left the bleeder screw out of the caliper for a couple of hours and still no fluid. Did that on the other side and fluid trickled out find. Soooooo, air is going through the passenger side caliper fine but fluid is not for some reason. Any idears????????

I forgot to mention, the pedal is hard even when the bleeder is out on the offending caliper.

Disregard! I FINALLY got it!! Blowing the air through the caliper must have pushed the blockage through. I let it set with the bleeder out some more after than and fluid FINALLY came through! WoooooHooooo! What a PITA! Thanks to all who offered their assistance......

baxter650 · 04-19-08, 10:25 AM

I just now read your post and think you may want to have a close look at your flex lines, i have seen them collapse from the inside and not let fluid pass, they can also create a condition were the brakes won't release.

DblTap · 04-19-08, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baxter650

I just now read your post and think you may want to have a close look at your flex lines, i have seen them collapse from the inside and not let fluid pass, they can also create a condition were the brakes won't release.

Thanks for your help. My buddy said the same thing. I just "THOUGHT" I had finally gotten it figured out. I just spent two hours and three bottles of brake fluid trying to get all of the air out of the lines. After all of that, I STILL had fluid shooting out of the farthest wheel each time I would crack open the bleeder. I have new lines. I am going to go put them on now and KEEP BLEEDING I guess!

Mace · 04-19-08, 12:20 PM

how are you bleeding your brakes?

DblTap · 04-19-08, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

how are you bleeding your brakes?

I'm taking the cap off of the master cylinder, and then going back to the passenger side rear wheel to start. I have my wife pump the hell out of them until they are hard and then hold them down while I open the bleeder valve, let the fluid/air shoot out and then close the valve. She then lets up on the brake pedal and we repeat the process.

Mace · 04-19-08, 12:31 PM

all other bleeder valves are closed right?
Everything else hooked up?

DblTap · 04-19-08, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

all other bleeder valves are closed right?
Everything else hooked up?

Yessssir!

Dynosoar · 04-19-08, 01:46 PM

Bleed order on a FJ60 (NO LSPV) is 1. Driver side rear (U.S. Driver side) 2. Pass. side rear 3. Driver side front 4. Pass side front.

Dynosoar

DblTap · 04-19-08, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynosoar

Bleed order on a FJ60 (NO LSPV) is 1. Driver side rear (U.S. Driver side) 2. Pass. side rear 3. Driver side front 4. Pass side front.

Dynosoar

Thank you

MANUCHAO · 05-10-08, 10:29 PM

Ok Im bringing this thread back....
Im bledding my brakes and have done everything posted above...
Im finally getting fluid coming out of the calipers but as soon as I put the speed-bleeders back (they are brand new) I get no fluid coming out...
I get fluid coming out from the old bleeders but fluid just seems to come out due to gravity (no pumping actions noted).... it just drips slowly....
Im wondering if my MC is toast

I get fluid pumped out of the rear brakes but its rather a weak squirt

....
I got lots of grime from the lines and the reservoir and I have used 3 bottles of brake fluid DOT 3.
All the fluid comes out nice and clean now...after working my way from the caliper all the way to the MC........ the pedal moves the fluid in the reservoir but not enough to get a pumping action at the end of the caliper...

Do you guys think that the brake booster needs to be operational?
As some of you know im in the middle of an engine swap and the truck has been sitting for over a year and I changed the brake lines about a month ago.
So the brake system has bee sitting dry for that month...would that make a difference with the brake booster/MC ??

Any info and advice is welcome and thanks in advance...

At this point Im thinking if I should get a repair kit for the MC or be better off getting the MC replaced ???

Mace · 05-11-08, 08:41 PM

I hate rebuilt MC's. But there are others that have had some luck apparently.

When you bleed the brakes with speed bleeders, only have one nipple open at a time.
Pump it till the fluid runs out with no bubbles. if bubbles persist, start checking lines for leaks..

if you are using conventional bleeders, your second person will pup the brakes three times then hold pressure on the pedal. You will then crack the bleeder for a second or two. Just till the "squirt" begins to subside. Then tighten the nipple again to prevent air from getting back into the line/cylinder.

It really is not a horrible thing. If fluid is pumping, you are fine. if nothin, then something is clogged/leaking.

MANUCHAO · 05-12-08, 09:41 AM

Hey Mace... Im not a big fun of rebuilt MC's either...

Yah, I had only one speed bleeder open at a time...
That's the thing, I pump and nothing comes out, but when I take the speed bleeder fluid flows out.

With conventional bleeders fluid comes out as soon as I open them (0ne at the time) but no pumping action noted...
I disassemble the front lines a second time from the caliper to the MC and also pushed some compressed air through the caliper and it looks like its all good....

Is now a good time to upgrade to a 4runner fj80 MC?
I did a thread search and found info on this upgrade...sounds like it is very popular and a one banana job....
I see Marlin Crawler and Ma-a-Fre both offer the MC upgrade............

Mace · 05-12-08, 11:32 AM

LArger master is only worth it if you have done a rear disk brake conversion..

89GASHOG · 05-12-08, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANUCHAO

Do you guys think that the brake booster needs to be operational?

No. I just went through this myself and replaced all bleeders with speed bleeders. Not as much fluid comes out with them cracked as with the regular ones, but it should definitely squirt out nevertheless. My original right front bleeder was dry, but after removing it and giving the brakes a pump fluid appeared. I knew there was a pocket of air in my lines, and eventually heard it come out of the bleeder in the driver's rear. Be sure to tighten the speed bleeders up real tight, otherwise they will eventually leak.

04-16-08, 07:05 PM	#1
DblTap IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pueblo West, Colorado Posts: 68	NO front brakes / NO fluid during bleed - I've searched and searched for the answer Okay, I have searched this until I am blue in the face! I cannot find the answer and I can't be the only person this has ever happened to. I took my calipers completely off of the truck when I replaced the front pads. When I put them back on, I now have no front brakes whatsoever. When jacked up with the brake pedal pushed all the way down, the wheels still spin freely. I bled the rear brakes just fine. The front ones have no fluid coming out of them when I try to bleed them. It has been suggested that I perhaps put them on the wrong sides when I reinstalled them. I don't believe that is the case as the bleeder nipples are on top. Any help would be greatly appreciated. __________________ '84 FJ60 - 4 1/2" of lift, 33" BFG Mud Terrains, fender mounted bottle opener and a chinese lucky frog hood ornament! Add me to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/landcrushers

04-16-08, 07:19 PM	#2
smtyblt IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Locust Grove Virginia Posts: 372	1. it is possible u emptied out the master cylinder and it now has an air pocket 2. double check your bleeders and make sure they are not clogged 3. if all else fails fill master break the bleaders loose and walk away for 30 or 40 minutes they will eventually self bleed if there is a pocket. 4. worst case your master took a shit and it is internally bypassing ( I dought it thow) __________________ 1988 FJ62 buggy SOA front 4-link rear crawl box lockers C3 beadlocks 38"TSL/SX ram assist 30 splined chromo rears 6 studded rear disc Warn RC rear Warn 8274 front Baja SS seats G-Force Race harnesses 1989 FJ62 Ome HD 4" w/35's 1991 FJ80 w/33's 2006 F350 King Ranch

04-18-08, 05:27 PM	#5
DblTap IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pueblo West, Colorado Posts: 68	Okay, I took out the bleeders and replaced them with new ones. One of the old ones was obstructed and the other one was stripped due to PO using regular wrench instead of brake line wrench. I left them completely open for an hour before putting the new ones in. NO FLUID! No, there is no fluid coming out when disconnecting the lines from the calipers. One other quick note: Prior to this whole fiasco, I was having problems with the front brakes locking up every time I drove it. I "THINK" that was due to an air bubble but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, I am not having that problem any more since I disconnected the calipers. It's just now that I have absolutely NO front brakes. I'm pulling my hair out! (what little I have left. ) __________________ '84 FJ60 - 4 1/2" of lift, 33" BFG Mud Terrains, fender mounted bottle opener and a chinese lucky frog hood ornament! Add me to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/landcrushers

04-18-08, 05:48 PM	#6
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	you probably broke a chunk of crud loose. Fill the cup Start working your way back from the brake line T on your axle (flex line to axle) Figure otu where the clog is and either clear it out, or better, replace the offending unit.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

04-18-08, 05:54 PM	#7
DblTap IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pueblo West, Colorado Posts: 68	A Co-worker suggested blowing out the lines with the air compressor. Is this a good idea and if so, is there anything I should know prior to starting? __________________ '84 FJ60 - 4 1/2" of lift, 33" BFG Mud Terrains, fender mounted bottle opener and a chinese lucky frog hood ornament! Add me to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/landcrushers

04-16-08, 07:57 PM	#4
djanis99 IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 77	when you replaced the calipers and disconnected the lines did fluid come out? If you disconnect the lines at the calipers does fluid come out if yes than problem is with calipers. Take the bleeder screw completely out(it just unscrews) how about now? process of elimination also I beleive on a 60/62 there is a proportioning valve to adjust brakes for weight of truck

04-18-08, 05:57 PM	#8
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	if your pedal won't blow the lines out, the compressor wont. Start disconnecting the lines working your way back to the master. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

04-18-08, 07:54 PM	#9
DblTap IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pueblo West, Colorado Posts: 68	Thank you for taking the time to help me. I really appreciate it! After 2 1/2 hours, the drivers side started to leak fluid. However, the passenger side did not. When I disconnected the line to the caliper, I immediately got fluid so I would say it is down to the passenger side caliper has an obstruction. How do I get it out? Thanks again. DblTap __________________ '84 FJ60 - 4 1/2" of lift, 33" BFG Mud Terrains, fender mounted bottle opener and a chinese lucky frog hood ornament! Add me to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/landcrushers

04-18-08, 10:03 PM	#10
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	if your caliper is clogged you pretty much need to either rebuild it or replace it. My vote is replace. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

04-18-08, 11:18 PM	#11
Lance Lucas IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Beaverton, OR Posts: 48	I would at least try closing all of the functioning lines/bleeders and leaving the offender open while pumping the pedal for awhile. __________________ 1990 Land Cruiser 2004 WRX

04-19-08, 09:03 AM	#12
DblTap IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pueblo West, Colorado Posts: 68	Okay, this is where I'm at. brake fluid comes out of the line going into the caliper when I disconnect it and I can blow air and residual fluid out of one opening on the caliper by by blowing compressed air into the other opening on the caliper. I have left the bleeder screw out of the caliper for a couple of hours and still no fluid. Did that on the other side and fluid trickled out find. Soooooo, air is going through the passenger side caliper fine but fluid is not for some reason. Any idears???????? I forgot to mention, the pedal is hard even when the bleeder is out on the offending caliper. Disregard! I FINALLY got it!! Blowing the air through the caliper must have pushed the blockage through. I let it set with the bleeder out some more after than and fluid FINALLY came through! WoooooHooooo! What a PITA! Thanks to all who offered their assistance...... __________________ '84 FJ60 - 4 1/2" of lift, 33" BFG Mud Terrains, fender mounted bottle opener and a chinese lucky frog hood ornament! Add me to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/landcrushers Last edited by DblTap; 04-19-08 at 10:09 AM. Reason: FINALLY fixed it!

04-19-08, 10:25 AM	#13
baxter650 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Posts: 419	I just now read your post and think you may want to have a close look at your flex lines, i have seen them collapse from the inside and not let fluid pass, they can also create a condition were the brakes won't release. __________________ 1980 PU 9" lift 383 38" Swampers 1993 FZJ80 6" slee lift 37s 2000 XR671L 83 BJ60 under construction 2008 XR650L

04-19-08, 12:20 PM	#15
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	how are you bleeding your brakes? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

04-19-08, 12:31 PM	#17
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	all other bleeder valves are closed right? Everything else hooked up? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

04-19-08, 01:46 PM	#19
Dynosoar V8J60 - TPI Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SoCal TLCA# 17857 Posts: 1,496	Bleed order on a FJ60 (NO LSPV) is 1. Driver side rear (U.S. Driver side) 2. Pass. side rear 3. Driver side front 4. Pass side front. Dynosoar __________________ '82 V8J60 - TPI 350 with a Turbo 400 attached to a splitcase, Cable Locker FF rear end, 4" SUA (National Spring), Copper Metalic Has been south to Cabo San Lucas, BCS and North to Port Angels,WA.

05-10-08, 10:29 PM	#21
MANUCHAO No way Eh !!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: c0vina, CA TLCA# N0PE Posts: 494	Ok Im bringing this thread back.... Im bledding my brakes and have done everything posted above... Im finally getting fluid coming out of the calipers but as soon as I put the speed-bleeders back (they are brand new) I get no fluid coming out... I get fluid coming out from the old bleeders but fluid just seems to come out due to gravity (no pumping actions noted).... it just drips slowly.... Im wondering if my MC is toast I get fluid pumped out of the rear brakes but its rather a weak squirt .... I got lots of grime from the lines and the reservoir and I have used 3 bottles of brake fluid DOT 3. All the fluid comes out nice and clean now...after working my way from the caliper all the way to the MC........ the pedal moves the fluid in the reservoir but not enough to get a pumping action at the end of the caliper... Do you guys think that the brake booster needs to be operational? As some of you know im in the middle of an engine swap and the truck has been sitting for over a year and I changed the brake lines about a month ago. So the brake system has bee sitting dry for that month...would that make a difference with the brake booster/MC ?? Any info and advice is welcome and thanks in advance... At this point Im thinking if I should get a repair kit for the MC or be better off getting the MC replaced ??? __________________ MaNu !!! '85--FJ60 E-mail: viviendo.de.mar.a.cordillera@gmail.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AuXYN3DMCw manamana tút turút too manamana !!!!

05-11-08, 08:41 PM	#22
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	I hate rebuilt MC's. But there are others that have had some luck apparently. When you bleed the brakes with speed bleeders, only have one nipple open at a time. Pump it till the fluid runs out with no bubbles. if bubbles persist, start checking lines for leaks.. if you are using conventional bleeders, your second person will pup the brakes three times then hold pressure on the pedal. You will then crack the bleeder for a second or two. Just till the "squirt" begins to subside. Then tighten the nipple again to prevent air from getting back into the line/cylinder. It really is not a horrible thing. If fluid is pumping, you are fine. if nothin, then something is clogged/leaking. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

05-12-08, 09:41 AM	#23
MANUCHAO No way Eh !!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: c0vina, CA TLCA# N0PE Posts: 494	Hey Mace... Im not a big fun of rebuilt MC's either... Yah, I had only one speed bleeder open at a time... That's the thing, I pump and nothing comes out, but when I take the speed bleeder fluid flows out. With conventional bleeders fluid comes out as soon as I open them (0ne at the time) but no pumping action noted... I disassemble the front lines a second time from the caliper to the MC and also pushed some compressed air through the caliper and it looks like its all good.... Is now a good time to upgrade to a 4runner fj80 MC? I did a thread search and found info on this upgrade...sounds like it is very popular and a one banana job.... I see Marlin Crawler and Ma-a-Fre both offer the MC upgrade............ __________________ MaNu !!! '85--FJ60 E-mail: viviendo.de.mar.a.cordillera@gmail.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AuXYN3DMCw manamana tút turút too manamana !!!!

05-12-08, 11:32 AM	#24
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,579	LArger master is only worth it if you have done a rear disk brake conversion.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."