how can one tell when knuckle needs rebuilt?

[saint60]

i posted a thread a few weeks ago about how to rebuild a knuckle. here are my symptoms. the outside of my wheel is coverered with little grease splatters, the drive is shaky (feels like power steering pump is bad, but the pump is new), when i leave it parked after driving, there is a small pool where something has leaked around the inside where the knuckle is. something is wrong, will rebuilding the kunckles remedy the symptoms. thanks in advance guys!

[Landpimp]

A big YES but you need to do it all, wheel/knuckle bearings, seals ect ect.

Three words.

INNER AXLE SEAL.

[saint60]

sounds like you guys have dealt with this before. so should i get a knuckle rebuild kit? who has the best one? the ones i've looked into don't include bearings. do i have to replace them or just repack them or what? are there any threads as to what i need to do?

[vtcruiser60]

Try Kurt at http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/ I got my rebuild kit there, cheapest I could find. Easy guy to work with....and will walk you through some of the steps.

Also, check the write up by Jim Phillips on rebuilding knuckles. I think it was posted originally on the Sor. archive (now offline). If you send him a PM I am sure he would put it up again.

And....buy some shop towels, and some more towels.

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by vtcruiser60

Try Kurt at http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/
And....buy some shop towels, and some more towels.

The cheapest to use is toilet paper, just use it in one pass. TP is not meant to be used as a rag, one wipe and it's done.

Dave

[Jim_Phillips]

Someone remembers my write up! That was really thanks to Beowulf and CDan in the 80s section. I was a beginner and they persevered with me to help me through the job. They wrote so many messages telling me what to do that I just put them all together in order.

It is still in the technical links section: http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/birf-repack.php

I have just about finished this job on my 60. I got my kit from SOR. I didn't change any bearings - I didn't expect I would need to and found the existing ones to all be in good working order. The whole purpose of the job is to replace the inner axle seal - that's what has caused the problem. I would buy a spare one just in case you bend one when tapping it in.

This time around I bought an inexpensive seal driver set - cost about $15 and is well worth having. I went through 10 rolls of kitchen paper. Only used 2 tubs of moly grease (in the write up it says buy 4). Cleaning the parts is about half the job - buy a bucket of degreaser and be patient.

Have a go and let us know if you have any problems - not that you should have...

Jim

[Doc]

It's really too bad that you have to dig so deeply into the axle to replace that pesky inner axle seal.

But, yes. That's your problem. You have gear oil in your knuckle, and probobly grease in the differential. After re-building the knuckle you'll need to drain and fill the differential too.

[jhstatts]

I suspect I am in need of this procedure too. I checked my front diff last weekend and the oil was grayish and thick. How do I know which side is the culprit? Or do I just do both for good measure? Thanks.

I don't think I could do this task on my own. How much does a shop charge for this kind of thing?

By the way, Jim, great link.

[jesterb]

Do both of them seals. They both got put on at the same time right?
You dont want to know what a shop would charge. You can do it yourself I promise. In addition to Jim's write-up Morgan Fletcher has a really good one too. Print both of these. Buy a Factory Service Manual(FSM) and dont be afraid to post a question or twelve. Start gathering up all of your tools and supplies during the week. Get your work area clean and ready. Do one side at a time so you can see how it should look when going back together. Its a long greasy job but really not all that difficult. I give it only because of the time involved.

[jhstatts]

Thanks, Jester. I really should do it myself... just scares the hell out of me.

Can I order an FSM from Toyota? Or CDan?

[Doc]

I bought my FSM from C-dan, as well as the entire knuckle kit, bearings and all. You can source bearings locally cheaper, but I didn't want to worry about it.

Toyota wants about $1200 to do it. I did the entire job for about $350. Parts were about $260 or so, and I bought synthetic greases and fluids, so it can be done cheaper if you HAVE to.

You will need some special tools to get the hub retaining nuts off (54mm socket, right?) and a brass bar (drift) or two. I'd also order a 3 lb brass hammer while you were at it. Also a set of snap ring pliars, about 4 rolls of shop towls, 1-2 gallons of de-greaser, about 25 paris of latex gloves ( I like to change mine frequently), two good jackstands, and a case of Killians Red.

[jhstatts]

Doc...

Cool. I think I could do it. Just reading all the steps and looking at all the pics involved makes my head hurt. But I guess that's where the case of beer (Yeungling Lager for me) comes in, huh?

Is there a one-stop shop I could order all my suppiles from (tools, grease, etc.)? I will order the kits and manual from C-Dan.

I need new rotors, too, so I guess I can install those while I am at it.

Thanks, all. Sorry for a bit of a hijack.

[Doc]

I just went to the local auto parts store for all of my grease and rags. I used e-bay as a source for the brass tools needed, as the local sears didn't carry them.

Most Sears stores will carry a set of brass drifts, I think sears calls them 'punches'.

The 3 lb brass hammer is VERY nice for getting those stubborn cone washers loose.

I have never done any real 'in-depth' maintenance on a car before, the guys here walked me through it and now I feel very confident in my ability to do it. Enough that I will offer you my phone number to call if you get stuck- PM me if you need to.

There are a hundred little bolts and washers on this job, and for me all the little parts were the most overwhelming. Once you've done one side you'll realize why it's not as hard as it first seems, however. You'll know so much about your front axle when done that you'll be amazed. Take the money you save and buy yourself an ARB front bumper as a reward.

[Cascade Cruiser]

I second vtcruiser60, CruiserOutfitters has a high quality (Koyo knuckle bearings, etc) knuckle rebuild kit for a great price. OEM seals and gaskets will set you back at least $100 more from Cdan, not worth it IMOP when there is a high quality alternative. Also, you can make your own seal driver set for about $3 worth of pipe fittings from your local hardware store. Just a few $$$ saving tips...I know I'm a still a student Good Luck

[lovetoski]

I've done the front axles on both my cruisers. Was really aprehensive for the first one (mywife's DD). But, as it had thick green junk in the diff, it was clear I needed to do it pronto. Nothing like an axle rebuild in the driveway in November in rainy Seattle. It was not fun.

Read all the posts you can, and get all the stuff you think you might need before hand. You can waste a lot of time driving all over town trying to get a few last minute things.

I did both sides at the same time. I was very systematic about laying the parts out IN ORDER as I took it all apart. The reason I did it this way was due to tool efficiency. Once I had the tools for removing (for example) the hub on one side, I just grabbed all of the tools and did a repeat on the other side. This meant I had fewer times getting up to go find the tool I needed.

Cleaning is very time consuming. A cheap parts washer is nice to have. ($50 bucks around here.)

Cleaning the birf...to take a part or not? I didn't take mine apart. It took a loong time to get them clean, and then to work new grease deeply into the birf. I used my fingers and a spatula to work in the grease. In hindsight, compressed air would have been helpful in cleaning it out.

Read through the FSM before hand, and write down all the torque values. It's easy to get them confused, and if you are working outside in the rain, you can't have the FSM sitting on the ground beside you...

On the snap ring pliers, make sure you get ones that have a flat side.

Freeze the bearing races, (not the bearings) they'll be a little smaller and fit in better.

Pay attention to which way the oil seals face when you remove them.

I did not remove my knuckle arms from the tie rod. This was a little more cumbersome, but the TRE's were newer, and it saved time.

I did not remove the brake line from the Caliper - I just hung the caliper on a coathanger from the shock. I didn't want to be bleeding brakes after working for 2 days in the rain.

There is an axle guide on the inside of the axle tube, it's oval shaped. You can see it when everything is removed, if you shine a flashlight inside. On my 80, this guide came loose - not sure why. It is NOT POSSIBLE to reinstall the axle w/out this guide in place. Christo had his come loose also. It is spot welded in place. Don't knock it loose. Just watch out when you slide the axle back in - once the axle is through the oval hole, you'll be good to go.

I had an easy time reinstalling the short side axle/birff. However, it took many frustrating tries (on both the 80 and the 60) to get the long side all the way in. I don't have the "touch" it appears.

Since you have "grey" diff fluids, you need to get the diff cleaned. Best way is probably to do the whole re-install, and use cheap diff oil. Run for 100 miles, drain and refill, then maybe do it again.

Hope this helps. A virgin solo front axle rebuild is stressful, but you'll be able to do it, and you'll feel great afterwords!

[jhstatts]

Thanks, Doug.

Do I need wheel bearings AND knuckle bearings? Or just wheel bearings. I am talking to C-Dan for all the parts. Should I be looking elsewhere? I hate to have him look it all up and then end up buying from another place.

[Doc]

If you ONLY do one set of bearings, do the knuckle bearings. They take most of the abuse and wear.

But, if you don't know when they were changed last, and your cruser has more than 60K miles, do them both.

[Cruiserdrew]

Some great points made in this thread! I've done more Land Cruiser knuckles in the last few months then I care to admit so a few more tips.

You cannot go wrong getting your parts from C-Dan.

It would be crazy to go to all this work and not replace the knuckle bearings.

The kit sold by Marlin and Cruiser Outfitters and Mudrak is good but has non Toyota seals. I bought a kit from Marlin, and 2 "Wiper kits" and hub grease seals from C-Dan. Getting the wiper kit gets you Toyota rubber seals, felt seals and new "Half moon" seal retainers for a very pro look that lasts 10 minutes off the road. I used the Taiwan felts and rubberseals to make up my own trail knuckle kit, also reusing the best two of the 8 used knuckle bearings I had. I sprung for some Toyota oil seals for my "kit" and it lives in the spares box.

Replace your knuckle studs. C-Dan will hook you up. Roughly $2 each, you will need 16. Keep the old ones for trail spares. Someone will need them. Very nice hex drive on the new ones to seat them firmly in the knuckle which is an upgrade by Toyota of their original hardware. Subtle cool factor.

Someone commented about hanging the caliper while you do this job. While it works fine on the 80, you can't do this on the 60-you will have to open the brake lines to remove the caliper, no big deal. Consider replacing the hard lines from the caliper to the backing plate. They arn't expensive.

Wheel bearings last a long time when properly adjusted. I had one go bad on my 60 recently at 190k but replaced both to be sure. Again C-Dan can get you replacements, and Autozone has a good price on the Timkins. Remember the Timkins were OEM on later 80 series so the're good quality.

Invest in a TRE puller. I splurged and bought the OTC one (I can get the part # if desired), It makes the job easier.

Enjoy!

[saint60]

you guys are awesome! thanks for all of the great advice. thanks to jhstatts for asking all of the q's i would have asked if i would have viewed the thread earlier.

[jhstatts]

Wow. Thanks everyone. And thanks, gamberro... I thought I was hijacking your thread.

I will do all bearings. I just wanted to be sure. I am cetain I will have questions once I get started, so please stand by.

[KLF]

Just wanted to add a few tips since I've done this job a couple of times in the past month.

Muffin pans are excellent for keeping all the small parts organized. Check yard sales to get some cheap.

Before I get started and all greasy, I photocopy the exploded view diagram out of the FSM, highlight or write all the torque numbers on it, then tape it to the fender. Saves you from having to look the stuff up later and getting your expensive manuals all greasy.

Get a couple of M10x1.25 threaded studs (mini-truck exhaust studs work great), loosely screw them into the knuckle before you start putting the backingplate/gasket/spindle/seal sandwich back on the knuckle. This will hold it all in place, you can get 6 of the 8 bolts installed, then remove the studs and put the last 2 bolts in.

[Cascade Cruiser]

Originally Posted by lovetoski

Pay attention to which way the oil seals face when you remove them.

this is good advice

[kevin g]

Originally Posted by KLF

Before I get started and all greasy, I photocopy the exploded view diagram out of the FSM, highlight or write all the torque numbers on it, then tape it to the fender. Saves you from having to look the stuff up later and getting your expensive manuals all greasy.

That is a great idea. Too bad I didn't think or hear of that before I did mine. My FSM is filthy.

[Doc]

A filthy FSM is a loved FSM.

[Haskins1111]

One little hint about the retaining clip, mine didn't have holes in it to use my retaining clip puller so i drilled two small holes on each side and bam i was able to put them back in now problem.

[donphillipe]

I have a ’90 FJ62 and I am 2 days into the knuckle rebuild. I found these differences in the online photo examples posted here and what I encountered:

- the brake calipers had to be removed because the caliper was attached to a stainless line that led from the caliper where it was attached to a clip on the brake shield and that clip was welded (with a brad) to the shield (could not be detached from the shield). At this point, the brake line was screwed into this junction which was part of the clip attached to the shield. From the braded clip, the brake hose could not be unscrewed because the brake hose went over to the axle housing where it was fastened with a U clip on one side and a E clip on the other side. Screwed into the other side of this brake line was the stainless line that went toward the deferential. I had to detach the line on the differential line going into the brake hose, remove the 2 clips and only then could I slide the brake hose and shield assembly
- one of the clips had rusted to the point where it broke in half when I tried to remove it (looking for one now)
- I found that the bottom plate that supports the lower knuckle bearings on this model did NOT have cone washers
- I found an indention had been ground into the axle where it passes the inner seal. This concerned me so I cleaned up the birfield assembly and took it to the local Toyota service center and hunted down the Land Cruiser specialist. He told me to “sand it off and it would be OK”. It appears to be around 1/32” deep as if the seal has rubbed a grove in the axle.

Curiosity: I have only owned this cruiser for only a couple years. It has around 210K miles on it and I know it set up for around a year once. I see that the outside of the knuckles have become a bit rusty and pitted. This didn’t look good when I started my final cleanup of the area, so I got into sanding it and some of it came off with sandpaper. Should I be concerned about this and should I keep grinding away until it comes clean (or should I say clean-er)?

One spotted problem leads to another so with everything undone now, I also found a seeping caliper. So I decided to replace them too. I got to looking at the rotors, and they had been ground before too thin, so I ended up having to buy new rotors too. The brake hoses have large cracks so I ordered replacements for those too. Should be here tomorrow.

Hope to be done by the weekend!

[RS41AB]

And it will take you at least a weekend if you've never done it before. BUT... It's worth it for piece of mind and damn your axles will look nice afterwards.

Did I tell you it was a really messy ball busting job? No? It's really messy and ball busting.You will drink this many