Now THAT'S seized!--HELP!

[Jman]

I went to use the FJ60 to run an errand--LOUD SQUEALING, AFTER 30 SECS, LOTS OF SMOKE! It was dark out, and I didn't have time to poke around much, but from what I can tell, something seized super-bad--bad enough that one of the belts was smoking on the crank pulley when I shut it off. Everything worked fine this morning. >:(

Anyway, my questions are:

1. I assume this is the smog pump--there was a squeal coming from that side when I started it up, then the belt squeal/smoke came later. I had AC tensioner and belts done last summer, and I've never had an alt seize up that bad, so smog is my guess. Anyone disagree? (I'll check tomorrow in the daylight anyway).

2. What's the "limp home" fix? This is an 87 FJ60 w/ AC, it has three belts. Is there a belt I use to bypass the smog pump? (I did see something like this in another post--50"x17mm--but it mentioned driving water pump and alt., which seems impossible for my engine). So, if there is a bypass, how difficult is this quick fix?

3. If I just cut the belt, how long do you think I could run it before getting into trouble? I need to move the truck from one side of the street to another--do you think I could run it for 1-2 minutes without a water pump? That would allow me to avoid getting a ticket until I had time to fix it on Saturday.

4. I don't want to choke on the price for an OEM smog pump--is there an aftermarket (NAPA) air pump that works?

Thanks for your help and patience. I tried the search function on this, got some answers, but nowhere near enough.

[Poser]

You should not have any problem running the engine for a few minutes to move it without having the water pump operating.

Good luck!

-Steve

[MrZero]

SOR will rebuild your old one. Can't remember the price off the top, but it's still pricey. DOn't know about aftermarket. I have a thread not too old here about the very same thing. Only after my SP went, I ended up with a rebuilt head. I decided to plunk down the dough for a brand new OEM smog pump rather than ever worry about this happening again or at an inopportune time.

BTW, check your Power Steering pump for leaks. The idea that the PS will leak into the SP and cause it to seize after some time has been thrown up here. Might be true, I dunno, but I can say that my PS had been leaking pretty badly for about 3-4 months before my SP went.

--ZERO

[lowtideride]

cant ya just run the rig with out the air pump? by pass it or just get new bearings put in(so you can use it to tighten the belt). if ya dont have emissions???

[Cruiserdrew]

I put a NAPA rebuilt airpump on my FJ40. For the last 2 years, it's worked just fine. I doubt it will last 180k like the first one, but then it only cost $75. At that price, I can replace it every 4 years. OEM is close to $500

[swank60]

if you need to limp it anywhere, you can use panty hose as a belt to bypass the smog pump and run your water pump...and if it is the smog pump, congrats and welcome to the higer levels of 60 ownership.

If you bypass it altogether, you'll see a drop in your milage (well, since I got mine working, I seem to be getting better milage) - and it forces air into your exhaust ports...so you'll run rich, clog your cat with carbon, plug your plugs with carbon, carbon all over the head/combustion chamber, you'll have to change oil all the time - that carbon will wind up there too...unless you go with a webber carb and can bypass all of the dynamic/vac adjustments your truck makes while running/driving. It relies on the air pump for the air injection system which pretty much is figured for at the carb and the dizzy. Basically, you'd have to desmog the whole thing, not just the one part.

Also, if you ever want to pass an emissions test, without the air pump, you're not going to do it.

[jwest]

Should be easy enough to do an on site field repair assuming it is a siezed air pump. Buy a new belt and pump, take some tools.
If you cut the belt and drive, you also disconnect the water pump, so that's your call.

Napa 51768 $88.99 + 20. core.
AutoZone 33768 (cardone) $70.99 + 20. core.

[fsusteve]

Jason, a friend of mine had an 87 also but the clutch on his a/c froze up. Don't know if maybe there were issues with that year or not. I do know the smog pumps are pretty common.

[landcruiserdude]

Jman,

I just pulled a working aftermarket smog pump of my 83 FJ60. I was about 5 years old, and was still working fine. It's a cardone brand. I was planning on selling it for $20 plus shipping from 75057, if you're interested.

Landcruiserdude

[jjbodean1970]

here's a link to a smog pump being sold on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...478179351&rd=1

[jeffroid]

Looks like you got plenty of good advice, but no one mentioned that you can remove the air conditioner compressor belt and use it to run the water pump and alternator to get home, using the alternator to tension it, of course. You don't have power steering, but you can drive it like that for a while. I have had to do that a couple of times. The reason is that I use cheap aftermarket pumps from Shucks/Checker/Krager, etc. They don't last as long, but they are lifetime guaranteed, as long as you are not filling them full of oil from excessive blowby past your piston rings. Check and see if your air cleaner is full of oil.

[e rock]

JMan -
Where are you located? I don't mean to highjack LCdude's sales pitch, but I've got one I'll sell cheap - I'm in the Seattle area. It came with a motor I bought, and seems to work fine although I've never used it.

Eric

[fsusteve]

[quote author=e rock link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154373#msg154 373 date=1084286449]
JMan -
Where are you located? I don't mean to highjack LCdude's sales pitch, but I've got one I'll sell cheap - I'm in the Seattle area. It came with a motor I bought, and seems to work fine although I've never used it.

Eric
[/quote]

He's in NYC area.

[Jman]

Okay, just spoke to NAPA, they can get pump by Thursday (thanks jwest), and they're within "biking distance" which is a plus. I can get a pump and a belt for under $120 and probably get the beast running again in a couple hours. :

It'll have to wait until Sat. morning, so I'll limp around the neighborhood with no belt until then.

Jeffroid--thanks for the tip on the AC belt, luckily I won't have to go that route this time, but it's good to know.

Thanks to all those who stepped up finding replacement pumps--if this were not my DD, I'd take you up on it. Anyway, a truly great group of guys on this board.

Once I get my OEM off, I might see if there's a way to rebuild it just in case my NAPA pump craps out in a few years. Anyone know if this can be done?

[60wag]

I've never seen a new smog pump first hand but I've been through several "rebuilts" on several trucks. They might replace the bearings and the carbon seals when rebuilt, but I doubt the phenolic paddles are replaced with new ones. This is probably why the pump output barely meets the Toyota spec for testing an air pump. If you have to get an $79 Cardone rebuilt, I now disassemble the thing when I get it home. If it looks really bad inside, or parts are missing ( I got one with 2 of the 3 paddles once) take it back to exchange for another. I use a high quality, high temp roller bearing grease and make sure all the bearings are properly lubed, and check the main shaft for burrs and gouges from old failed bearings. Take you time putting it back together and make sure all the bolts are tight. I've had good luck since I started doing this. Also don't turn in the old seized pump until you've been able to inspect the replacement. You might need to swap some parts - like the hose elbows. Sometimes you get these unversal elbows that point in the wrong direction. Sometimes the phenolic vanes in you old pump are better than the replacement - just make sure the little roller bearings are in good shape.

[Jman]

[quote author=60wag link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154448#msg154 448 date=1084291294]Also don't turn in the old seized pump until you've been able to inspect the replacement. You might need to swap some parts - like the hose elbows. Sometimes you get these unversal elbows that point in the wrong direction. Sometimes the phenolic vanes in you old pump are better than the replacement - just make sure the little roller bearings are in good shape.
[/quote]

No one gets my old parts! I'll pay the NAPA core charge and keep my OEM in my "dead parts graveyard" in the basement until I get a rainy weekend to open it up.

[landcruiserdude]

Jman

The PO who installed the cardone air pump that I just took off my FJ60 tossed the original smog pump. I would have tried to rebuild it and put it back on myself, because the original smog pump hose routing is much better than the cardone. The reason I bit the bullet and bought a new OEM smog pump to put back on my FJ60 was that I was unsatisfied with the cardone hose routing. I couldn't even adjust the belt tension properly with the cardone, because the hose routing hit the steering gear box. I could have bought a shorter belt, but I figured I neede to go back to OEM anyway.

I beat my dealer down on the price quite a bit, otherwise, I would have bought a used pump from SOR or Cruiserparts.net. I bet Toyota sells bearings and seals to rebuild if you check with your local dealer.

[Beanie]

Wow this sounds familiar, mine did the same thing on Thanksgiving. I pulled the pump and emptied it, the main bearings were fine, so it wasn't a big deal, it still looks like it's there, just doesn't do anything. I haven't had to have it smogged (until this month) so I don't know if it'll pass, but I don't think it'll be a problem.

[Jman]

Anyone know if I'll need new hoses, brackets, or other hardware for the NAPA pump, or is it a bolt-in job?

I am SOOOOOOOO glad this happened right in front of my house.

[rightlane]

if you're not in big hurry, or you'd like to rebuild you're bad pump, checker and napa sell an alternator for an 85 '60 with a dual pully. just swap pulleys with your alt. and return the new one. a small spacer will push the alt back to realign the pulleys and that will drive your water pump. i just went through this and didn't see a big performance drop. it will give you plenty of time to figure out your seized sp. you will need to measure for new belts but once you reinstall your sp you will have a backup system if it ever seizes again.

[landcruiserdude]

Jman,

The generic rebuilt unit should contain the extension hose and 90 degree pipe elbow and instructions on how to hook it up. It's kind of a cheap workaround, but it should work. The problem I had was using OEM Toyota belts. I couldn't get the smog pump belt to tension enough, because the cardone smog pump hose elbow sticking out the side interfered with the powersteering gearbox, not allowing any more tensioning. If you have the same problem as I did, you could probably use a shorter belt to solve the problem.

[jeffroid]

I mentioned above that I have used cheap aftermarket pumps. Once, or maybe even twice, the pump that arrived at the parts store (Schucks, in this case) was as described in another post here with the extension hose and elbow adaptor, etc. It looked like it might have worked, but I didn't like it. I simply showed the friendly guy behind the parts counter the difference. He didn't know what to do so he just tried re-ordering it, and low and behold the correct pump arrived, even though the two different versions had the same part number. I seem to remember him saying something about one being a Cardone, or whatever, but I don't remember which one was which.

[Jman]

[quote author=jeffroid link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154361#msg154 361 date=1084285960]
Looks like you got plenty of good advice, but no one mentioned that you can remove the air conditioner compressor belt and use it to run the water pump and alternator to get home, using the alternator to tension it, of course. You don't have power steering, but you can drive it like that for a while. I have had to do that a couple of times. The reason is that I use cheap aftermarket pumps from Shucks/Checker/Krager, etc. They don't last as long, but they are lifetime guaranteed, as long as you are not filling them full of oil from excessive blowby past your piston rings. Check and see if your air cleaner is full of oil.
[/quote]

I had some time tonight, so I put some chalk on each belt/pulley, bumped the starter, and sure enough, the smog pump belt didn't budge.

I took out ALL the belts, put the AC belt on the crank/alt/water pump, and started it up--WHOA! Sounded much better with just that one belt! No air pump/PS pump/AC pulley noise, much quieter.

Just when I was cursing those Toyota engineers for putting the water pump and smog pump on the same belt, along come this elegant solution.

Anyway, this will buy me some time to do the job right.



And, just for the heck of it, another question: I assume when I remove the smog pump, I have to take out the PS pump as well?

[landcruiserdude]

Jman,

I managed to remove/replace my smog pump last week by leaving the power steering pump in place. I did have to remove the hard line coming out of the back of it temporarily to create enough clearance to remove/put in place the smog pump. I also removed all the smog pump hoses, to get sufficient clearance to work. I also loosend the bracket on the fender which holds the ABV and other stuff, to get enough clearance. I figured it was easier doing it that way, than dealing with removing/replacing the power steering pump. Anyway, it took me about 3 hours to do the job. I probably could have done it faster, but I was interrupted several times.

[dd113]

I have had OK luck with NAPA pumps. As the previous post mentioned take it apart and check it out. Most work well for a long while. You need to look at why the pump went out. Either blow by gasses or PS pump leaking onto it. Usually the PS pump. Good remans from NAPA.

[jeffroid]

In regards to the question about removing the power steering pump, I've done the job more times that I would have cared to, and I never had to remove the PS pump or any of the ABV stuff. I do remember that I lowered the air pump (minus the hoses) down and fished it out between the exhaust pipe and the frame somehow, but I don't recall now exactly which route I took - whether it was straight down or back by the firewall. I then of course snaked the new one in the same way the old one came out. Don't mess with the PS pump. You either have to leak PS fluid all over the place or remove that bolt that is right next to the exhaust manifold, which is actually humanly impossible to do.

[rightlane]

i agree, don't touch the ps pump, i just fished mine out and up in front of the ps pump. it takes a couple of rotations of the smog pump but it will fit. it did take me about 30 min to get the lower bracket bolt back into the new pump. i ended up loosening the shroud to get more space to work with.

[Jman]

Okay, no touchy the PS pump! Whew! I was afraid I was going to have to move it, what a relief!!!

I love you guys! (Woody, we need a hug smiley here.)

[Jman]

Note to those who want to try this at home: running with one belt means no power steering; trying to parallel park an FJ60 with armstrong steering is, uh, interesting.