Big request for 60 owners

swank60 · 03-20-04, 03:43 PM

I finally got a chance today to peer into the engine bay with the emissions control manual from Toyota. At first glance and a little vac hose tracing, it looks like I've got really hard core problems. I traced about 3-4 lines that were totally plugged into the wrong places. Systems that aren't supposed to be connected are connected - kind of looks like the PO's mechanic put it all back togehter by memory, not by the book.

So here's my request for any 60 owner who's feeling extra charitable and has a digital camera: I need some good, high-res photos of your vac lines and what they're hooked too - just the stuff on the driver's side in front of the carb - just the small line stuff (like the air injection and EGR stuff). The layout in the manual doesn't exactly match what I've got (the manual, according to Toyota, covers 80-85, but there's a few things that just don't match up from my truck to the manual. I need a real world example to look at instead of a tech manual.

Unless there's someone in Fort Worth who's willing to let me look under the hood of their 60 and have a little comparison time...

I know it's a lot to ask...but I want to make sure before I start pulling vac lines off...you know?

devo · 03-20-04, 04:59 PM

I've lived the nightmare. I can't sent you pictures but I can suggest you order the factory 2F emissions manual. It tells all and shows the proper way to diagnose all the vacume switches that go bad and mess up the vacume lines. Sorry I sold my manual with the 2F I removed.
devo

Jman · 03-20-04, 06:20 PM

I love the SOR site:

This picture is from this page: http://www.sor.com/sor/cat048c.tam?xax=26677

Also, buy the emissions manual (the 1981 manual is good for all FJ60s).

Good luck!

swank60 · 03-20-04, 06:57 PM

I've got the 2F emissions manual - that's how I've found what's wrong thus far - but the manual isn't exactly clear. That's why I'm wanting photos to look at.

But the SOR site might be just the ticket - it's a lot more clear than the emissions manual...

Mike S · 03-20-04, 08:29 PM

I have a very stock 2F - I'll try to get some useable pics in the AM.

Mike S

jwest · 03-20-04, 08:54 PM

Here's another... when you're talking about fj60 emissions, you can't have too much information. BTW, your engine bay diagram should be the most accurate, provided it's still legible. I've gone through the same ordeal where i've found misrouted vacuum lines and other foul-ups left by the dealership. I've since checked each system for routing and functionality and replaced all the vaccum lines in the process. Truly a relief when corrected. Make sure that all the VTV and vacuum check valves are in their proper orientation, too.

The upper right shows the vacuum lines to the carb on the valve cover side.

JDay · 03-20-04, 11:15 PM

Check your email. I am not sure if the pic attached will help, you will probably need a lot more angles.

pismojim · 03-20-04, 11:52 PM

You might want to check out this thread:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?bo...5526#msg115526

Not for the faint of heart.

I recommend patience and system by system trace using the emission book.

swank60 · 03-21-04, 08:38 AM

It is a pain, but it comes more and more clear as I look at it.

What started it all was failing the smog test - and I've gone through just about everything...it all keeps coming back to the air injection system...and while I was looking all of the lines over, I noticed one free line...no idea where it goes, can't figure it out from the book...then I start tracing lines that I can find (process of elimination) and it's so out of whack, I was wondering how the truck ran at all...

One thing that I found - a big one - was that my ABV, which is part of the AI system, was hooked to the vac switch, which is part of the Decel Fuel Cut system...and the VSV that it was supposed to be hooked to was broken...

That was just taking 5 minutes to look under the hood before a run to the store...

One question though: it doesn't look like it in the manual, but does anyone know if any of the systems are connected at all? (like the AI being connected - by vac - to a component of the EGR system) or do they run independently (other than a connection to the computer)? - if that makes sense...

2mbb · 03-21-04, 08:49 AM

I agree with pismojim about needing patience for this job. There's a quote from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" referencing instructions that came with a bicycle: 'Assembly of a Japanese bicycle takes peace of mind'. Find that peaceful place and take your time. I also recommend taking the time to label the hoses, so when you take things apart, it goes back together much easier. I used some cloth/adhesive wire labels that I got at the hardware store. There is usually a single letter or digit port number associated with each of the vacuum devices.

jwest · 03-21-04, 09:55 AM

[quote author=2mbb link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124667#msg124 667 date=1079884177]
There's a quote from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" referencing ...[/quote]

Interesting, I've always thought that Phaedrus could have just as easily taken that trip with his son in a Land Cruiser.

[quote author=swank60 link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124665#msg124 665 date=1079883501]...does anyone know if any of the systems are connected at all? (like the AI being connected - by vac - to a component of the EGR system) or do they run independently (other than a connection to the computer)? - if that makes sense...[/quote]

EGR and Spark Control for example are connected since they both deal with timing. They share the upper BVSV on the thermostat housing as well as the main diaphragm of the vacuum advance.
But AI and EGR are separate systems. You may be confusing the VSV's? AI uses 2 VSV's while EGR uses 1 and they're located in the same area.

Mike S · 03-21-04, 04:30 PM

[quote author=Mike S link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124496#msg124 496 date=1079839753]
I have a very stock 2F - I'll try to get some useable pics in the AM.

Mike S
[/quote]

Great pictures, but I am having software problems and can't download. Sorry.

Mike S

swank60 · 03-22-04, 08:16 AM

That's cool Mike, I appreciate it. I've been emailed a few photos already, and I'm starting to iron out some of the details...

I'll let you all know how it goes...

sandcruiser · 10-03-04, 04:11 PM

In Guatemala (of all places) I noticed a mechanic using fingernail polish to mark vacuum lines before he took apart a motor. I think it was a hyundai van or something, but the principal is the same. Raid your woman's fingernail polish for a dozen bottles (or hit the grocery store) and dab a generous amount of various colors on the lines/connection points while they are still connected.
Of course, this doesn't really help you figure out where they go now, but should help once you've finally figured it out.
Best of luck!

JDay · 10-03-04, 04:57 PM

This may not be much help, but here you go. I can email you direct with a full res. pic. if needed.

WALoeIII · 10-03-04, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDay

This may not be much help, but here you go. I can email you direct with a full res. pic. if needed.

LOL - I have about 1/8th that many hoses under the hood.... oh well!

Tinker · 10-03-04, 06:31 PM

I took 24 8x10s of the smog lines in my 84 FJ60 before taking it to the 4x4 shop to have the engine swapped into my 83. You're welcome to borrow them.

Didn't read the other responses, but I also have the factory shop manuals if you want copies of the smog section.

Email me back or call me at work, 6:30AM-5:00PM, M-F 303 688-0675.

Steve Meyer
Larkspur, CO

patride71 · 10-03-04, 06:55 PM

GOOD LUCK!

mine is desmoggd and i will probably leave it that way and drive it around illegally until i get back down to texas. then i'll just drive it with illinois plates down there until i get another DD.

i just can't see me having the patience or time otherwise. i'll just take my chances.

Landpimp · 10-03-04, 07:40 PM

82 fj40 same as 81-87 40/60, all OEM smog correctly hooked up(even working), fj60 carb(same as 40 but AC idle up), but the AC idle up is wired for a elec hand throttle)

BMAN · 10-03-04, 11:59 PM

Thank God for SBC!

The motor swap seemed easier to me than trying to figure out what I was missing. Good luck, you are a better man than I just for trying.

HZJ60 Guy · 10-04-04, 12:08 AM

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Jim_Phillips · 10-04-04, 07:16 AM

HZJ60Guy

I was thinking the same thing. Just in case someone with a diesel has the same question. Here is where the pipes go..

MR.FJ60 · 10-04-04, 07:40 AM

Thanks sooooo much for those pictures guys!! I actually know that some of my hoses are plugged in the wrong place but i wasn't for sure on where they actually went in to. once again Thanks!

PHBeerman · 10-04-04, 08:37 AM

Swank,

What were the numbers on your failed emmissions?

Tapage · 08-04-05, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HZJ60 Guy

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for sure .. never see that amount of hoses in my engine room .. !

almost one .. or 2

Mace · 08-04-05, 10:28 AM

And why I am going to the megasquirt TBI system..

CruisinTiger · 08-04-05, 01:04 PM

Damn Landpimp that is a pretty green and a pretty engine. That took sometime..Congrats

joel hj60 · 08-04-05, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapage

for sure .. never see that amount of hoses in my engine room .. !

almost one .. or 2

What he said, diesel!

03-20-04, 03:43 PM	#1
swank60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: One of Four Presidential Flying Saucers Posts: 1,459	Big request for 60 owners I finally got a chance today to peer into the engine bay with the emissions control manual from Toyota. At first glance and a little vac hose tracing, it looks like I've got really hard core problems. I traced about 3-4 lines that were totally plugged into the wrong places. Systems that aren't supposed to be connected are connected - kind of looks like the PO's mechanic put it all back togehter by memory, not by the book. So here's my request for any 60 owner who's feeling extra charitable and has a digital camera: I need some good, high-res photos of your vac lines and what they're hooked too - just the stuff on the driver's side in front of the carb - just the small line stuff (like the air injection and EGR stuff). The layout in the manual doesn't exactly match what I've got (the manual, according to Toyota, covers 80-85, but there's a few things that just don't match up from my truck to the manual. I need a real world example to look at instead of a tech manual. Unless there's someone in Fort Worth who's willing to let me look under the hood of their 60 and have a little comparison time... I know it's a lot to ask...but I want to make sure before I start pulling vac lines off...you know?

03-20-04, 04:59 PM	#2
devo IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: denver Posts: 573	Big request for 60 owners I've lived the nightmare. I can't sent you pictures but I can suggest you order the factory 2F emissions manual. It tells all and shows the proper way to diagnose all the vacume switches that go bad and mess up the vacume lines. Sorry I sold my manual with the 2F I removed. devo

03-20-04, 06:20 PM	#3
Jman I m m o d e r a t o r Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: If ya don't know, I ain't tellin' Posts: 1,087	Big request for 60 owners I love the SOR site: This picture is from this page: http://www.sor.com/sor/cat048c.tam?xax=26677 Also, buy the emissions manual (the 1981 manual is good for all FJ60s). Good luck!

03-20-04, 06:57 PM	#4
swank60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: One of Four Presidential Flying Saucers Posts: 1,459	Re:Big request for 60 owners I've got the 2F emissions manual - that's how I've found what's wrong thus far - but the manual isn't exactly clear. That's why I'm wanting photos to look at. But the SOR site might be just the ticket - it's a lot more clear than the emissions manual...

03-20-04, 08:29 PM	#5
Mike S IH8MUD Lifer - No Appeal Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,497	Big request for 60 owners I have a very stock 2F - I'll try to get some useable pics in the AM. Mike S

03-20-04, 08:54 PM	#6
jwest IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 681	Big request for 60 owners Here's another... when you're talking about fj60 emissions, you can't have too much information. BTW, your engine bay diagram should be the most accurate, provided it's still legible. I've gone through the same ordeal where i've found misrouted vacuum lines and other foul-ups left by the dealership. I've since checked each system for routing and functionality and replaced all the vaccum lines in the process. Truly a relief when corrected. Make sure that all the VTV and vacuum check valves are in their proper orientation, too. The upper right shows the vacuum lines to the carb on the valve cover side.

03-20-04, 11:15 PM	#7
JDay IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Henderson, NV TLCA# 11633 Posts: 164	Big request for 60 owners Check your email. I am not sure if the pic attached will help, you will probably need a lot more angles.

03-20-04, 11:52 PM	#8
pismojim the dude abides Join Date: Oct 2002 TLCA# 6433 Posts: 726	Big request for 60 owners You might want to check out this thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?bo...5526#msg115526 Not for the faint of heart. I recommend patience and system by system trace using the emission book.

03-21-04, 08:38 AM	#9
swank60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: One of Four Presidential Flying Saucers Posts: 1,459	Re:Big request for 60 owners It is a pain, but it comes more and more clear as I look at it. What started it all was failing the smog test - and I've gone through just about everything...it all keeps coming back to the air injection system...and while I was looking all of the lines over, I noticed one free line...no idea where it goes, can't figure it out from the book...then I start tracing lines that I can find (process of elimination) and it's so out of whack, I was wondering how the truck ran at all... One thing that I found - a big one - was that my ABV, which is part of the AI system, was hooked to the vac switch, which is part of the Decel Fuel Cut system...and the VSV that it was supposed to be hooked to was broken... That was just taking 5 minutes to look under the hood before a run to the store... One question though: it doesn't look like it in the manual, but does anyone know if any of the systems are connected at all? (like the AI being connected - by vac - to a component of the EGR system) or do they run independently (other than a connection to the computer)? - if that makes sense...

03-21-04, 08:49 AM	#10
2mbb IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: WC, CA TLCA# 6404 Posts: 1,942	Big request for 60 owners I agree with pismojim about needing patience for this job. There's a quote from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" referencing instructions that came with a bicycle: 'Assembly of a Japanese bicycle takes peace of mind'. Find that peaceful place and take your time. I also recommend taking the time to label the hoses, so when you take things apart, it goes back together much easier. I used some cloth/adhesive wire labels that I got at the hardware store. There is usually a single letter or digit port number associated with each of the vacuum devices.

03-21-04, 09:55 AM	#11
jwest IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 681	Big request for 60 owners [quote author=2mbb link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124667#msg124 667 date=1079884177] There's a quote from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" referencing ...[/quote] Interesting, I've always thought that Phaedrus could have just as easily taken that trip with his son in a Land Cruiser. [quote author=swank60 link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124665#msg124 665 date=1079883501]...does anyone know if any of the systems are connected at all? (like the AI being connected - by vac - to a component of the EGR system) or do they run independently (other than a connection to the computer)? - if that makes sense...[/quote] EGR and Spark Control for example are connected since they both deal with timing. They share the upper BVSV on the thermostat housing as well as the main diaphragm of the vacuum advance. But AI and EGR are separate systems. You may be confusing the VSV's? AI uses 2 VSV's while EGR uses 1 and they're located in the same area.

03-21-04, 04:30 PM	#12
Mike S IH8MUD Lifer - No Appeal Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,497	Big request for 60 owners [quote author=Mike S link=board=1;threadid=13445;start=msg124496#msg124 496 date=1079839753] I have a very stock 2F - I'll try to get some useable pics in the AM. Mike S [/quote] Great pictures, but I am having software problems and can't download. Sorry. Mike S

03-22-04, 08:16 AM	#13
swank60 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: One of Four Presidential Flying Saucers Posts: 1,459	Re:Big request for 60 owners That's cool Mike, I appreciate it. I've been emailed a few photos already, and I'm starting to iron out some of the details... I'll let you all know how it goes...

10-03-04, 04:11 PM	#14
sandcruiser IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tamarindo, Costa Rica Posts: 1,900	In Guatemala (of all places) I noticed a mechanic using fingernail polish to mark vacuum lines before he took apart a motor. I think it was a hyundai van or something, but the principal is the same. Raid your woman's fingernail polish for a dozen bottles (or hit the grocery store) and dab a generous amount of various colors on the lines/connection points while they are still connected. Of course, this doesn't really help you figure out where they go now, but should help once you've finally figured it out. Best of luck! __________________ 91 fj80 w/ 93 1HD-T. OME 850/860 w/ 1" front spacer, LEDs, HIRs, Hankook MT's 31x10.50r15, Tuffy center, ARB rear locker (in progress), in garage: lightforce lights, full rack, superwinch X9, maggiolina tent, hella horns. WTB: Tan DS mirror & housing '88 HJ60, "Louie" For Sale in Costa Rica.

10-03-04, 04:57 PM	#15
JDay IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Henderson, NV TLCA# 11633 Posts: 164	This may not be much help, but here you go. I can email you direct with a full res. pic. if needed. Attached Images __________________ SNLC.org 87 FJ60 'squirted', premium floor mats, synthetic leather wrapped steering wheel, authentic pine air freshner 96 LX450

08-04-05, 10:28 AM	#26
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,984	And why I am going to the megasquirt TBI system.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

10-03-04, 06:31 PM	#17
Tinker IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Larkspur, CO Posts: 2,199	2F Vacuum Lines I took 24 8x10s of the smog lines in my 84 FJ60 before taking it to the 4x4 shop to have the engine swapped into my 83. You're welcome to borrow them. Didn't read the other responses, but I also have the factory shop manuals if you want copies of the smog section. Email me back or call me at work, 6:30AM-5:00PM, M-F 303 688-0675. Steve Meyer Larkspur, CO

10-03-04, 06:55 PM	#18
patride71 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 686	GOOD LUCK! mine is desmoggd and i will probably leave it that way and drive it around illegally until i get back down to texas. then i'll just drive it with illinois plates down there until i get another DD. i just can't see me having the patience or time otherwise. i'll just take my chances. __________________ 85 FJ60 "Bertha" TLCA #14740

10-03-04, 07:40 PM	#19
Landpimp IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gig Harbor WA TLCA# 5506 Posts: 11,422	82 fj40 same as 81-87 40/60, all OEM smog correctly hooked up(even working), fj60 carb(same as 40 but AC idle up), but the AC idle up is wired for a elec hand throttle)

10-03-04, 11:59 PM	#20
BMAN IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Greg's place Posts: 2,632	Thank God for SBC! The motor swap seemed easier to me than trying to figure out what I was missing. Good luck, you are a better man than I just for trying. __________________ COPPER STATE CRUISERS Founding member A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. Edward Abbey Ontario Knife Company can KISS MY ASS!!!

10-04-04, 12:08 AM	#21
HZJ60 Guy Tank Buster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Seattle area TLCA# 13102 Posts: 2,335	Diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, dieseldiesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel, __________________ 2001 VW TDI Bora 1987 Toyota HZTJ-60 I'm a democrat member of the House of Representatives, and I've got what it takes to take what you've got!

10-04-04, 07:16 AM	#22
Jim_Phillips IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 619	HZJ60Guy I was thinking the same thing. Just in case someone with a diesel has the same question. Here is where the pipes go.. __________________ 1979 BJ40 - Now in Morocco 1989 HJ62 - Now in Pieces The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

10-04-04, 07:40 AM	#23
MR.FJ60 IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: IOWA Posts: 481	Thanks sooooo much for those pictures guys!! I actually know that some of my hoses are plugged in the wrong place but i wasn't for sure on where they actually went in to. once again Thanks!

08-04-05, 01:04 PM	#27
CruisinTiger IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clemson, SC Posts: 1,384	Damn Landpimp that is a pretty green and a pretty engine. That took sometime..Congrats __________________ Yee Haw!!! 1968 fj40 with 33's 1986 fj60 all stock and 31's...340,000 miles Cruisers....gotta love 'em!