[77TLCFJ40]

First I would like to be sure to let everyone know that I have extensively searched these subjects including the FAQs. Hours of good reading but with few questions answered…

My FJ40 currently sits on a 2.5 inch lift springs with 33x10.50 x15 BFG MTs. I should have listened to friends who said that 4 inch lift springs and 35s would be on my wish list within a year. I would like to list a few mods that could be combined to provide the Ultimate SUA Suspension. SOA is currently not an option. The intended use of this FJ40 is a general all-around rig. It will see a good deal of street use, non-paved roads, mud, and one to two TLCA Events per year usually crawling rocks. My goals are good articulation, maximizing ground clearance, and a reasonably comfortable ride. If you have direct experience with any of the below listed mods, please chime in with your ideas, opinions and pictures if possible. Thanks in advance.

The starting point is a 6/77 FJ40 with 4 inch lift leaf springs running 35x12.50x15 mud tires. Please assume the brand of 4 inch lift springs or tires are not up for debate. I am willing to trim the rear fenders, but prefer to keep the fronts uncut.

1) SHACKLES/ANGLE – Considering +1.5” for additional fender clearance and spring flex. +2.5” in the rear to level if necessary. Greaseable hardware will be used. What vendor has the best prices? What mods are recommended to correct shackle angle if necessary. Mud posts and web sites I have seen recommend 4 degree shims for +1.5 to +2 inch shackles and 6 degree shims for +2.5 inch shackles for caster correction. Any need to shim the rear axle to improve the driveshaft angle? Other than removing/relocating the shackle hangers, can anything be done to improve shackle angle?

2) SHOCK MOUNTING LOCATIONS – Longer shocks equate to longer travel if done correctly – right? Extended front mounts are available via F250 towers. Where is the optimal front lower shock mount? Assuming stock lower mount, what shock are you running with F250 towers? Rear lower mounts range from the U-bolt plate to the axle housing. What’s best? Rear upper mounts on the crossmember result in an angled but longer shock. Is there a better place? What is a good shock on a tight budget?

3) U-BOLT FLIP KIT – Opinions? With 4 inches of lift on 35s a little extra clearance would be nice. Other than Man-A-Fre, who makes a kit? What are the opinions on rear lower shock mounts with this kit? Do these kits require a shorter shock?

4) FLIPPED REAR SPRINGS – Adding 3.5 to 4 inch wheelbase for better on-road handling and off-road departure angle? Other benefits or drawbacks? It also has the added benefit of centering the wheel in the rear which I think looks better. I do realize that the rear fenders will need to be cut. Do any flares fit after the flip? TJ flares? Pics?? What should a re-tube to lengthen my existing driveshaft cost? I was quoted $150 locally and thought that was high. Any OEM shaft bolt right up? Other than drilling and welding new upper shock mounts to the rear of the crossmember, are there other shock mounting options? Can I swap and spin spring plates side to side and mount the shocks in front of the rear axle using stock upper shock mounts?

5) What am I forgetting? Please don’t say skip all that and go SOA!

Thanks very much for the shared knowledge on MUD.

[DSRTRDR]

wider tires - more wander (or is it wonder? ) on the road........

[Isotel]

ill try my best to answer some of the questions,

First thing being, that a poperly done SOA ( i had to) can ride great on the road, and near perfect with swaybars etc.. my truck rides great, and i cruised out to Moab with no issues last year..

Treeroot has a dam Flexy SUA, so consult him if he dosent see this thread..

shocks only limit travel, they can not by themselfs increase it.

Shackle angle should be about 45 degrees or maybe a bit less..

Rather than flipping the rear springs, why not put in some longer ones to help out with the flex.. Great Mod, im now at 100" WheelBase, should be great on the trail!

[77TLCFJ40]

isotel & all,

If I were to spec longer springs for better shackle angle and more flex, how much longer would you go? Is 2 or 3 inches longer too long? Will I loose lift with longer springs or would they be arched more to compensate?

Thanks

[4x4Poet]

Custom spring makers like Alcan Spring can shape their springs with the shackle length in mind to keep castor and pinion angles at oem specs. This eliminates the need for shims. Shims and off-the-shelf springs are MUCH less expensive. Just not the best solution.

Advanced Handling used to make u-bolt plates that located the end of u-bolts to the side of the spring packs but not below the spring. Increases under spring clearance. The basic design can be fabbed, obviously.

[77TLCFJ40]

Anyone have any experience or a link to the Advanced Handling kit mentioned by 4x4Poet? Thanks

[DSRTRDR]

there are other U-bolt flip kits out there.............

[77TLCFJ40]

And the names of the other U-Bolt Flip Kit vendors are......

[Fast Eddy]

Return the '77 to stock with 31s for the street, then buy another one and do a spring over, welded rear, hydraulic steering and a fuelie v8 for wheeling.

[treerootCO]

I can't get any flex out of my SUA

[treerootCO]

I think the new paint made it flex even better

[treerootCO]

ok.....

37x12.5 MTRs with Allied bead locks
The rear tub has been clearanced to the inner fender.
Metal-tech front fenders
Both front and rear springs have been flipped
Ford shock towers up front Bilstein 12" model
Angled rear shocks in back 12" Bilsteins
U-bolt flip kit 4+ sold by Man-a-fre
4" SUA Northern Spring (used to be sold by TPI)
DO NOT BUY Pinnacle springs - ask just in case
Downey Cantilever shackles - yes they help but you can achieve the same thing with longer springs and a stock shackle or by moving your hangers.
New springs do not flex, you have to break them in.

My front springs are doing great, the rear is starting to sag. I plan on springing over the rear to correct that.

[brisveganbj42]

okey dokey.. where to start..

i have been through the same process you are investigating at the moment and heres what ive done and somethings ive learnt. the state laws here don't allow SOA and i wanted to get the most out of my SUA setup. I also do the same type of all rounder wheelin, beach, gravel, rocks, mud, and its my daily driver. i want to keep my COG low as possible so that rules out a body lift with this setup. if i wanted to run 35's id probably find longer leaves again and get them reset to 4" with longer shocks to help maintain the articulation twith the similar setup.

original setup was a bj42 with an aftermarket 2" lifted springs.

changes made:
- extended greasable anti-inversion shackles
- mixed spring pack comprising of 60+75series leaves in the rear and 75+40series leaves in the front.
- moved each end 2.5 for a 5" increase in wheelbase
- custom front/rear shafts
- using longer shocks but using original shock mounts front and rear
- custom reset of all spring leaves to give level ride and a little bit of lift (probably about 2-3" of spring lift + 2" longer shackles give 3-4" lift overall)
- no changes to standard steering setup (resulting in bent draglink and dented shocks)
- doubled all brakelines by piggybacking 2 std flex brake lines.
- rear guard chop to accomodate 33x10.5xr15 jungle trekkers
- no front guard mods
- 3+deg castor plates for the front only

things id change:
- 60series steering conversion to stop the front drivers shock rubbing on the draglink
- ford shock towers in the front and longer shocks
- change rear shock mount to allow more droop in rear
- still yet to extend bumpstops by about an inch front and rear,

the ride and results:
- daily driving is noticabily more comfortable.. you dont feel the bumps as much as before
- articulation is greatly increased and i keep my tires on the ground heaps more than before (still no lockers yet)
- when turning under compression it stresses power steering pump (box is now leaking).
- steering is fine at speed and quite pleasant with the 3* castor plates and damn scary without them.
- there is a bit of tyre rubbing on the front steering components at full lock and the front fender support when compressed. the rear rubs when its tucked up in the wheel well.

some pics:
here are the front spring packs:

rear end with no shocks:


how it sat after changing front and rear leafpacks:

when i went to get my springs reset to level the ride.. the spring place put too much lift in the springs.. this is with approx 4" overall lift.

heres the more conservative lift id asked for originally.. approx 2-3" lift as it sits now (maintain conservative COG)

and some measurements for the spring place to reset the springs to my required height. you guys might find this useful.





i think the flex on the front is great!



but the rear end is lacking:




all the changes made wheeling this particular spot a bit easier:



hope all this info has helped.. im happy with the results so far and think its a good way to improving the on and off road handling and articulation of my 40. if you have any questions about my particular setup feel free to ask! :P

cheers,

Andrew

[bretty]

is your cruiser remote controled. every pic theres nobody in the drivers seat................... loooks good

[77TLCFJ40]

Thanks for the responses so far.

Lets hear from more of you with first hand experience!!

Still waiting for the other vendors with U-bolt flip kits.... DSRTRDR??

Thanks

[my64fj40]

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=20517

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...ght=ubolt+flip


I think this the most quality one...

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_acces...oltflipkit.htm

Not to sure how this is a flip kit, but here's a link anyway

http://www.customsuspension.com/stor...x.php/cPath/74

http://69.50.175.2/forum/showthread.php?t=325146

Uno mas

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.p...ask=view&id=49



Hope some of this helps


-my64fj40

[77TLCFJ40]

The lcadvancedhandling.com kit looks promising. I can't get any of the links to work and a google search for them was not successful. Anyone have a good link to LC Advanced Handling?

Thanks for the great links my64fj40. Good reading

[handcannon]

77TLCFJ40 --- Are you looking for Ross Stuart of Land Cruiser Advanced Handling? If so, he closed his shop here in town and is driving dump truck. I don't know if he is doing anything on the side or not. I installed new kitchen cabinets for him this last winter. He was telling me about developing his front shackle reversal kit, but didn't say anything about u-bolt flip kits. He also showed me his 40 with a GM 6.2 deisel shoehorned into it. Sweet!

[77TLCFJ40]

handcannon,

Please ask him if he will weld up some of his version of the U-bolt Skid Plate for a 77 FJ40. He does not even need to paint them.

Maybe others that read this thread will want a set as well????

Lets hear it... Who wants a set?

I'm in for a set of 4.

Thanks

[4x4Poet]

brisveganbj42, that's some detailed history! (the good Aussie type)

[65swb45]

I just picked up a used set of Ross's U-Bolt plates last week, but I'm more than likely gonna hang onto them for the 45. Should have thought of that before I sold off the old kit.

The design is a simple upside down tophat shape that wraps around the spring pack, bringing the u-bolt nuts alongside the leafs. Ross' parts look like they could have been made a little beefier, but I never had one fail on me for the years that I ran them on the 40.

The Astro stuff that showed up on Pirate looked promising, but I didn't follow up on it so I can't really comment on that.

And as far as flex goes, I've got the same problem as treeroot:

[niblik]

if ya lookin for flex, especially at the rear, check this site out...

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/shackles.htm

these things are gonna be on my 40 when completed...
front and back (only with 60# steering on the front though).. they'll give ya extra droop..

killer...

[brisveganbj42]

Originally Posted by bretty

is your cruiser remote controled. every pic theres nobody in the drivers seat................... loooks good

HAH! not quite.. dont forget we have RHD's over here. its hard to take pics of your vehicle if your the only one with the camera, you often get everyone elses car but yours.

Originally Posted by 4x4Poet

brisveganbj42, that's some detailed history! (the good Aussie type)

THanks 4x4Poet, i hope its been of some use to you and others. i learnt a lot from here so it was an opportunity to give something back to the ih8mud community.


for those interested here is a quick vid of my setup flexing a few ruts n stuff.

http://ironpaw.dopegoat.com/clips/ormeau_flexin.avi (8mb divx)
(you will need the divx codec from download.divx.com - download and install the free player bundle and your ready to go) with more trip vids available here http://ironpaw.dopegoat.com/clips/

[2badfjs]

Originally Posted by niblik

if ya lookin for flex, especially at the rear, check this site out...

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/shackles.htm

these things are gonna be on my 40 when completed...
front and back (only with 60# steering on the front though).. they'll give ya extra droop..

killer...

ONLY $499. FOR A PAIR!!!!

why spend that kinda $$ on a shackle that will unload on inclines?

a good spring mod will get you where you want to be.

[FJBen]

Alcan 4" springs, longer shackles...all I was running on my piggie...

not bad flex...better shackle angles would have helped. definitely reccomend them.

[CruisinGA]

Originally Posted by 2badfjs

ONLY $499. FOR A PAIR!!!!

why spend that kinda $$ on a shackle that will unload on inclines?

a good spring mod will get you where you want to be.

I've handled them and driven a truck with them installed. (DD113's FJ62)

They are top notch, and not like any other "revolver"shackles out here.

That said, i still don't know if I would spend the money on them.

[2badfjs]

Originally Posted by CruisinGA

I've handled them and driven a truck with them installed. (DD113's FJ62)

They are top notch, and not like any other "revolver"shackles out here.

That said, i still don't know if I would spend the money on them.

they looked like the revolvers, thats why i said that. (i'll recant my statement)

pricey fo sure!!!

[slickrock]

Originally Posted by treerootCO

I can't get any flex out of my SUA

it looked better in print

[treerootCO]

Originally Posted by slickrock

it looked better in print

where did you see that?

[4x4Poet]

Superior's website info does not mention their shackles' behavior on inclines. I can't see how their not like Revolvers off road.

I do like the lock-out pins for on road travel stability, though I'd like to know if the shackles rattle around their pins while driving with them locked for road use.