[RUSH55]

I'm planning out a medium performance 2F rebuild, and am curious about what off-the-shelf performance cams some of you guys are running, and how you like them.
So far, I'm pretty interested in Downey's Torquer cam, which has a lift height of right around 0.5" and a shorter duration than stock. Then MAF has it's RV grind with an advertised duration of 262, but I don't know what the lift height is.
My goal is to pump out as much bottom and mid-range torque as possible (naturally aspirated) up to around 3000. I really don't plan on running RPM's higher than that for what I normally do. I live in AZ, and there really isn't much mud to go flying thru. I just would love to be able to pull 6 percent grades, in my fully loaded 55, in 4th gear at about 2500 RPM's, and then run up to around 3000+ on the flats if I need to. Right now, as it is, I can pull hills all day long in 3rd gear at 2700-3000.
I'm just out to hear peoples experience with aftermarket 2F cams, that's all.
Thanks.

[fj40owner]

When I ran the 2f I installed the MAF RV camshaft and LOVED IT!!
I don't know the lobe specs, but the thing was a torquey little beast! So long as you're not doing any highway driving you'll be satisfied. I also installed Mel's electronic ignition (sold by JT Outfitters for $99) which made it run smoother.

[2badfjs]

x2 on the man a fre rv cam

very pleased

[dfmorse]

RUSH55;

Have u thought about an Edelbrock dual port manifold?

I put one on my '73 and it was amazing (stock exhaust) . As long as u keep the rpm's above 2000, it would pull Floyd hill (a steep hill near Denver) in top gear (3rd) at 55 and increasing. Sand and mud in low range were vastly improved.

Before the new manifold, I had to be in 2nd at 40-45 mph to get over the hill.

That manifold and a new cam would be great.

...

[RUSH55]

-So long as you're not doing any highway driving you'll be satisfied.-

FJ40owner, why do you say this?

-Have u thought about an Edelbrock dual port manifold?-

I haven't even heard of it! It's for the 2F? For a 2 barrel or 4 barrel?

[Cornbread]

I know you said off the shelf... But if you have the time send the cam to Delta Cams in Tacoma Washington. they did a medium rv grind on mine, rewelded some lobes, did it on a one day turn around, and for a lot less than MAF. www.deltacam.com

[Mark W]

A 262 degree (advertised) duration cam will wake your 2F up nicely and will happily pull to and beyond 5000 if the rest of the motor is matched to it.

I would not even consider a cam of lesser duration than stock, and I can't believe anyone would grind one.

Limiting yourself to 3000 is a bad idea. You are throwing away most of your power. Even the factory rated stock motors at 3600 for peak horsepower.

The Dualport is an Offenhauser manifold, not an Edelbrock. It is specifically for a four barrel carb. Not a particularly high flowing manifold (the C series is much better) but it lets you use a 4bbl and gain notable midrange and top end without low end losses.



Mark...

[Poser]

Originally Posted by dfmorse

RUSH55;

Have u thought about an Edelbrock dual port manifold?

I put one on my '73 and it was amazing (stock exhaust) . As long as u keep the rpm's above 2000, it would pull Floyd hill (a steep hill near Denver) in top gear (3rd) at 55 and increasing. Sand and mud in low range were vastly improved.

Before the new manifold, I had to be in 2nd at 40-45 mph to get over the hill.

That manifold and a new cam would be great.

...

Please post up info on this....part number, where you picked it up, how much, etc.


THANKS!


-Steve

[Mark W]

He's talking about the Offy Dualport. You can get it through Jegs. They don't list it, you have to ask. They don't stock it either so you have to wait for Offy to burn a batch. :(

I have considered buying a lot from Offy direct. (I filled out distributor paperwork a lomng time back but have never bought anything direct yet). I'd urge you to look to the C series instead though. A Dualport with cam/compression and exhaust REALLY makes a 2F run. But you can definitely tell the difference when the same engine has a C series on it.

The Dualport is actually rather restricive and has routing that is far from ideal in the transition from the plenum chamber to the runners.


Mark...

[Poser]

Mark is THIS it?

bottom of page...

[Mark W]

Yep.

I can't find the C series on this site. Either Offy doesn't make it anymore (doubtful if they still make the Dualport I would assume...) or this vendor doesn't carry it.

The $216 they show looks like a good price. Jegs was asking about $230 3-4 years ago.

I wonder it that's a close out? :(


Mark...

[Pighead]

I've got an aftermarket "torquer" type cam in my Pig, LOVE IT! I don't know the brand name or who made it, found it in an old block and my machine shop reground it for me.
My old late F would red-line at 3K, maybe 3200. Rebuilt, it tachs 4K easy. Will do 5K when necessary, maybe more. It gets to 4 or 5k faster than the old mill would get to 3K. 'Cruises on the freeway much better than stock, not straining or screaming at all. Does pretty well off-road as well.

Originally Posted by RUSH55

<snip>
I'm just out to hear peoples experience with aftermarket 2F cams, that's all.
Thanks.

[Roswell Rat]

My 2F has been converted to GM TBI. Does anyone know of an adapter so that I could run the Offy 4-barrel intake with the GM throttle body?

[RUSH55]

-Limiting yourself to 3000 is a bad idea. You are throwing away most of your power. Even the factory rated stock motors at 3600 for peak horsepower.-

Yo Mark, glad to see you're still posting. I didn't say I wanted to limit the RPM range, I just said that I don't plan on doing a whole lot above 3000. I usually hit 3000-3500 between shifts, and roll down the highway ~2800-3000 (which is around 70). But most of my DDing and 4xing is in the lower RPM zone, like I said, not much mud or snow (it hasn't rained here in AZ for 123 days now). And coupled to the fact that I'm running a wide ratio tranny with 35's and stock 4.11's on a 5500-6000 pound Cruiser, I'm just really wanting to increase that lower range torque curve as much as possible, additional HP at higher RPM's is just an added bonus, if you know what I mean.
If you advise going with a cam of an advertised 262 duration, I trust that. What lift height would you recommend?
BTW, now what is this "C" series? Is it the performance Toy manifold with the larger runners set up for a 2 barrel, like the one Andrew Farmer used in his Gertrude write up, that required a bunch of grinding and shim making so that it would work with his header?

[jmaddox]

I just got one of the Downey "Torquer" cams and should have everything up and running by next week. I will post up with the results. It is going in a 2F with weber, headers, and a HEI distributor.

[RUSH55]

Oh cool man! Yeah keep us informed.
I just went to the Downey site.
The duration for their "Torquer" cam is 214 intake and exhaust, and the lift is .440.
The duration for their "Horsepower" cam is 224 i and e, and the lift is .430.
They say that "the stock Landcruiser duration is ridiculously too long", and theyve "shortened it for increased performance and radically reduced emmissions."
What's the school of thought as to why they would believe this?

[ranger]

I have a dual port but have yet to install it.
With my current brake setup it won't work, I have the warden brake booster adapter, mini booster and later M/C no clearance to run it. (carb) Only way I see it working is going with a Vette manual booster.

[RUSH55]

For PR, does anyone know what the stock 2F duration and lift numbers are? Can't find it in the Haynes.

[jmaddox]

I am not qualified to comment on the "school of thought" Downey has, but it sounded good to me at the time when I ordered the cam. Another factor was that their cams were a little less expensive than Man-a-Fre's.

Downey's service left a little to be desired. There is another note on the Downey site about better valve springs needed to go along with the cam. I called them, took the salesmans's advice and went ahead and ordered them. In the end, Downey was unable to provide the valve springs and also unable to get the distributor stuff I needed. I had to call them to find this out. They never called me to let me know the order was on hold or back ordered. It all slowed the engine rebuild and pissed me off in general. I ended up ordering valve springs from Man-a-Fre.



Anyway, I got the cam and I hope it does what they say.

Originally Posted by RUSH55

Oh cool man! Yeah keep us informed.
I just went to the Downey site.
The duration for their "Torquer" cam is 214 intake and exhaust, and the lift is .440.
The duration for their "Horsepower" cam is 224 i and e, and the lift is .430.
They say that "the stock Landcruiser duration is ridiculously too long", and theyve "shortened it for increased performance and radically reduced emmissions."
What's the school of thought as to why they would believe this?

[coiled40gary]

I got mine from Delta Camshaft Inc.
Perf 250 S grind
Duration intake 250
Duration exhaust 254
Intakes opens 17, closes 58
Exhaust opens 60 closes 14
cam rise .255 L/C 108 degrees
Lash intake .014 exhaust .014

I am very happy with mine. Runs strong on the freeway or wheeling. I'm running 2F-H41-Orion-4.10-37s.

gary

[FJ40fiji]

I ran a Downey Cam and header on a 22re in a 4 runner. They didn't really seem to do much for it. If I get another 22re truck, I won't get the same stuff for it again.

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by RUSH55

Oh cool man! Yeah keep us informed.
I just went to the Downey site.
The duration for their "Torquer" cam is 214 intake and exhaust, and the lift is .440.
The duration for their "Horsepower" cam is 224 i and e, and the lift is .430.
They say that "the stock Landcruiser duration is ridiculously too long", and theyve "shortened it for increased performance and radically reduced emmissions."
What's the school of thought as to why they would believe this?

Those are strange sounding numbers. There is no reaon for the longer duration camshaft to have less lift. I *think* that that cam has about .450 lobe lift.

As to "the stock Landcruiser duration is ridiculously too long"... They're smoking something. IIRC the duration of the stock cam at .050 lift is something along the lines of 190 degrees. Regardless it is NOT longer than the cams they (and others) offer. If it was, then a) it would also have more lift, or B) the regrinds of stock Cruiser camshaftsd would have onger durations available AND more lift, and c) the stock cam would out perform theswe aftermarkets in midrange and top end.

A LOT of thge stuff that Downey claims about various products they sell simply won't hold up to an encounter with reality. :(


Mark...

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by RUSH55

If you advise going with a cam of an advertised 262 duration, I trust that. What lift height would you recommend?
BTW, now what is this "C" series? Is it the performance Toy manifold with the larger runners set up for a 2 barrel, like the one Andrew Farmer used in his Gertrude write up, that required a bunch of grinding and shim making so that it would work with his header?

The cam range I like is the one that downey lists as their 224 degree (that is measured at roughly .050 of lift. Clifford used to sell this grind as a "260" duration cam and the one I uses is sold as "262" degrees (this measurment is total duration). MAF has a similar cam. Specter *may*, I don't remember right now. All of these will give you pretty comparable lift (in the low to mid .440 range) The limiting factor in how much lift you get from the cam is directly related to the size of the base circle. A smaller circle has to have a steeper lobe than one with a larger base circle. The steeper lobe puts more stress on the material of the cam and the lifter. Anyway for the same engine, most cam makers will have similar duration:lift relationships.

The C series is an Offenhauser 4 barrel intake manifold.


Mark...

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by jmaddox

There is another note on the Downey site about better valve springs needed to go along with the cam.

That's just Downey making a few extra bucks. The factory valve springs will work fine to above 5000. I've run them to 6000. Few people will be pushing a 2F that high.


Mark...

[jmaddox]

Originally Posted by Mark W

That's just Downey making a few extra bucks. The factory valve springs will work fine to above 5000. I've run them to 6000. Few people will be pushing a 2F that high.


Mark...

Thanks Mark.
That's what I figured. Anyway, I ended up getting new Toyota valve springs and since I got over 300,000 miles out of the old set I won't worry too much.

John

[RUSH55]

Well, I figure any company is gonna tell you whatever story they can to fool you into believing they have a superior product, that's their marketing angle. The challenge is to read thru the BS to find out if the product lives up to the hype, or IS just hype. I want something that's gonna make me physically feel a difference when this is all said and done.

-A smaller circle has to have a steeper lobe than one with a larger base circle. The steeper lobe puts more stress on the material of the cam and the lifter. -

This was something I was also curious about and would have questioned the manufacturer about before purchase- that is if it was a new grind or a regrind. But I do know that there are alot of perf. people out there running regrind cams (I just recently learned how that works), but I'm just trying to visualize how this is worse. Either way (new grind or regrind) the lifter still has to travel the same amount of total lift from its base and keep the valve open for the same amount of time (duration). In my head it's the same, either large or small. It's still the same amount of stess isn't it? If the base circle is smaller with a larger lift, I can see how that would stress and wear the lifter and valvespring differently than that of the stock grind. But if you have a new grind with the same higher lift, wouldn't it still be the same stress on the components, and if not, wouldn't the duration be different?

[Mark W]

Picture a beach ball spinning in a circle. It has a "lobe" which gives a total duration of 90 degrees of the balls rotation. It has a total lift of .500 inches.

Now picture a marble with a lobe that generates the same lift over the same amount of rotation.

The ramp section of the lobe is subjected to a lot more contact pressure in the case of the small circle than in the case of the large.


Mark...

[RUSH55]

Mark, is your message box full?

[Mark W]

Don't think so. I'll check.


Mark...

[grant5127]

Originally Posted by Poser

Please post up info on this....part number, where you picked it up, how much, etc.


THANKS!


-Steve

Anyone interested in one-----