Nuts and Bolts

[legion]

Eons ago in the first couple pages of this thread there were a couple of questions about strength and SS bolts. For the record I am not a metallurgist but I do have some experience in this area and my company has sold 100's of thousands of stainless nuts and bolts for non-auto related specialty applications.

The short version is that there are different grades of stainless and the most readily available is the cheap stuff, typically type 304 stainless. The threads on 304 are comparatively brittle and under tension will gall or just flat snap off.

For our applications we use type 316 (a slightly different recipe for the stainless) and it's worked well under tension. It's also more resistant to typical corrosive compounds that you're likely to run across. The downside is that type 316 is about 3x the price of the more common type 304 that you'd normally find in a bolt kit.

A couple of other unrelated comments:

A poster a while back mentioned a source for bolts in China. There are to my knowledge no manufacturers in the US for general use threaded hardware like nuts and bolts. They'd go out of business instantaneously as the Asian suppliers have a wildly lower cost base and fewer EPA type reg's to contend with, etc.

On a similar note, SS is a work hardened material which is why you seldom see compound angles in a stainless fitting. Hit it more than once to bend it to your desired shape and it's likely to have become too brittle during the second heat cycle.

Note:

I am a complete caveman with a wrench and don't know what kind of actual torque values that 316 SS threads would max out at. If you have a known high torque application you should verify that the threads will hold up w/ your supplier. The hardness of the fastener certainly will but the brittleness of it may not.

[pportmd]

Very interesting, thanks!

[Coolerman]

Has ANYONE heard from Kevin@boltdepot about pricing or their quotes? I can no longer wait to order bolts and can't afford to wait weeks to get a simple bolt order.

Merbelsfield: What was the final answer to the pricing?

[71FJ40]

Nope....

x2 - "I can no longer wait to order bolts and can't afford to wait weeks to get a simple bolt order. "

I am checking with local Auveco dealers....

Originally Posted by Coolerman

Has ANYONE heard from Kevin@boltdepot about pricing or their quotes? I can no longer wait to order bolts and can't afford to wait weeks to get a simple bolt order.

Merbelsfield: What was the final answer to the pricing?

[71FJ40]

Looks like we are back to square 1.
Just spoke with the local auveco rep and most of the part numbers for the M6 and M8 bolts have either been discontinued or are only available in bright zinc.

The rep is looking at other manufacturers and I will let you know if another distributor pops up.

[filmpilot]

The codes for all the cruiser bolts and torques are decoded in the Worskshop manual. Page 14-23

Theres a method to the madness:

I.E. 91111-40620 Last set of digits: 4= Bolt head mark; 06=Major diameter of thread 20=Grip length (from under head to end)

Have any of you guys tried Caswells plating kit? I have and have had great success!

[Coolerman]

Originally Posted by filmpilot

The codes for all the cruiser bolts and torques are decoded in the Worskshop manual. Page 14-23

Theres a method to the madness:

I.E. 91111-40620 Last set of digits: 4= Bolt head mark; 06=Major diameter of thread 20=Grip length (from under head to end)

Have any of you guys tried Caswells plating kit? I have and have had great success!

Yes this was covered on Page 6, post #159 of this thread.

Are you buying zinc bolts then replating them with the Caswell kit? If so give some detailed information about this.

[n2666s]

hmmm, just thinking out loud.......stainless sure is purdy but in aviation you cannot use ANY kind of stainless steel for structural elements....just my 0.02

Lou

[kb3gun]

No word from Kevin...
I'm just going to get from a local hardware source. Not worried about reproduction finishes. Zinc will do. Fit, form and function is what I'm going for.

[71FJ40]

Got another solid lead on the yellow dichromate - fingers crossed...

Originally Posted by 71FJ40

Looks like we are back to square 1.
Just spoke with the local auveco rep and most of the part numbers for the M6 and M8 bolts have either been discontinued or are only available in bright zinc.

The rep is looking at other manufacturers and I will let you know if another distributor pops up.

[reservefj40]

Does anyone have the sizes for the body mount bolts for a 79+ FJ40? I've searched the entire site and the spreadsheet and can only find the sizes for 78-. 79+ has 10 bolts of 4 diff. sizes and the 78- has 12 of the same size. appreciate any help.

[Coolerman]

Originally Posted by reservefj40

Does anyone have the sizes for the body mount bolts for a 79+ FJ40? I've searched the entire site and the spreadsheet and can only find the sizes for 78-. 79+ has 10 bolts of 4 diff. sizes and the 78- has 12 of the same size. appreciate any help.

No, I only have an old rusty 1971 to measure.
If you do break down and have to pull them out, measure them and post up. I'll put them in the spreadsheet!


I just just have to say, I love your sig line. Congrats on the new addiction! Hard to say which one will cost you more!

[merbesfield]

Originally Posted by 71FJ40

Nope....

x2 - "I can no longer wait to order bolts and can't afford to wait weeks to get a simple bolt order. "

I am checking with local Auveco dealers....

There was no final answer. Sorry for not posting earlier, but I did not see this. Kevin NEVER sent me an invoice after I talked to him many times. But I did get all my stuff from him and most of it was replated yellow zinc and turned out great, just wish I had done more. I did I a good bit, but working in the shop the other day and it just does not seem like a big quantity. I would keep calling Kevin, he is just really busy and needs to be told what you want, don't wait for him to call you back. Good luck. Mark

[merbesfield]

Great job Coolerman.

[71FJ40]

Think I may have found another source - waiting for samples and will post pics when they arrive.

[antFJ]

any updates on this? i am about to buy bolts... i would love zinc plated instead of Stainless...

[Coolerman]

Headlamp Body to Headlamp Housing Ring Screws

4 5mm x 0.8mm x 12mm Lock washer only. Phillips #2 head.

These screws pass through the Headlamp body, then the bib, then thread into the Headlamp Body Retaining Ring.

[CRAWLTOY]

Coolerman , the 6 screws that hold on the vent on the outside of the cruiser for the heater blower are 5mm x .8mm x 10mm phillips flat head....

[Coolerman]

Originally Posted by CRAWLTOY

Coolerman , the 6 screws that hold on the vent on the outside of the cruiser for the heater blower are 5mm x .8mm x 10mm phillips flat head....

Thanks! I'll add that to the spreadsheet Monday!

[Beast II]

Here's a link to tons of nuts and bolts on Amazon.com:

Amazon.com: Northeast Fasteners - Industrial & Scientific: Industrial & Scientific

[71FJ40]

OK - just placed an order with Wurth and will take pics once the fasteners arrive.

SEMS Grade 8.8 Yellow Zinc Bolts:
The M6's have a 10mm head
The M8's have a 12mm head
05.0221.jpg

NOTE - The thread pitch on the M10's (1.5) - I do not believe this will work on most cruiser applications


Class 8.8 Yellow Zinc Hex Nuts:
05.0230.jpg
Note the M8's come in either a 12mm or 13mm head (WAF)


Class 8.8 Yellow Zinc Hex Nuts w/ Captive Washer:
05.0231.jpg

Class 8.8 Yellow Zinc Metric Washers:
05.0241.jpg


Wurth USA can be reached @:
800.987.8486 then press 3 and then 2 for a rep in your area.

If you are in Colorado shoot me a PM and I will get you the contact info for our rep.

[Coolerman]

Care to publish your order list and how much it all cost?

FWIW I have emailed Kevin at Bolt Depot 3 times. Each time he says he will get back to me but never does....

As an aside, there are only 8 bolts that I have found on the Cruiser that are 10mm x 1.5: 5 water pump bolts, 2 F alternator bracket to block bolts and 1 Clutch slave cylinder to tranny bolt.

[71FJ40]

Originally Posted by Coolerman

Care to publish your order list and how much it all cost?

FWIW I have emailed Kevin at Bolt Depot 3 times. Each time he says he will get back to me but never does....

As an aside, there are only 8 bolts that I have found on the Cruiser that are 10mm x 1.5: 5 water pump bolts, 2 F alternator bracket to block bolts and 1 Clutch slave cylinder to tranny bolt.

62612 6x12 bolt
62616 6x16 bolt
62620 6x20 bolt
62820 8x20 bolt
62825 8x25 bolt
62830 8x30 bolt
62835 8x35 bolt
31706 M6 nut
31708 M12 nut
03796 M6 nut w/ captive washer
44106 M6 lock washer
44108 M8 lock washer
40706 M6 flat washer
40708 M8 flat washer

I ordered 100 each of the bolts and then the corresponding number of nuts/washers/lock washers for each

I am waiting for the final quote with shipping and will update shortly.

Thanks for the heads-up on the M10 - and no, I never heard anything back from Kevin either.

[Coolerman]

Originally Posted by JimmieT

X2 !!


Torque Calculation for a 1/4" bolt, Gr8, CS

T=(k x d x P) / 12 * 75%
T = Torque (ft/lbs)
k = cofficient of friction
d = nominal diameter (inches)
P = Yield strength (psi)
Formula Lubed Assembly:
T=(.05 x .25 x 130,000 lbs.) / 12*75%, T= about 100 ft./lbs.
Plain & Clean Assembly:
T=(.15 x .25 x 130,000 lbs.) / 12*75%, T= about 305 ft./lbs.
Rusty Assembly:
T=(.45 x .25 x 130,000 lbs.) / 12*75%, T= about 914 ft./lbs.

This demonstrates that properly cleaned and lubed bolts/nuts will acquire the proper torque at a lower torque value.

No offense to physics, but unless I'm missing something, I don't care what that 1/4" bolt is made from, it will break LONG before you reach even a 100 ft.lbs let alone 914! inch lbs maybe....?

[JimmieT]

Originally Posted by Coolerman

No offense to physics, but unless I'm missing something, I don't care what that 1/4" bolt is made from, it will break LONG before you reach even a 100 ft.lbs let alone 914! inch lbs maybe....?

You are correct, a 1/4" Gr8 bolt should probably only be torqued a to maybe 8 ftlbs. (about 100inlbs)

My example, was only an example .... not actual torque values. The final formula for determining torque values also takes a BUNCH of other data into consideration: Proof Load, Stress Area, TPI, Pitch Diameter, Root Diameter, Underhead Coefficient of Friction, etc.

I apologize for the confusion. I tried, unsuccessfully, to simplify a very complex process!

Again, always refer to OEM specs. for proper torque values.