Cut and Turn: My experience

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:19 AM

Before cutting the perches and hardware off

Before cutting all the hardware off (So I know how it goes back on)

Back on with vehicles weight on axle to measure stock castor (jack stands are for safety only, no weight on them right now)

Measuring stock castor. Make sure angle finder is parallel to spring and spings are parallel to frame.

Cutting off mounts. Make sure you mark where the old perches were located on the axle because your mounting the new perches 180 degrees on the other side. Makes it a lot easier.

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:19 AM

The Cut off wheel and old perches.

Make sure you mark where the old perches were located on the axle because your mounting the new perches 180 degrees on the other side. Makes it a lot easier.

Bare housing with rough weld from old perches and hardware.

In vise level and at stock or original castor angle (mine was 2 degrees + because PO had added shims normal should be +1)

Smoothed down filling all cuts from taking perches and hardware off; filled and then ground back smooth.

With level housing rotated 14 degrees I put perches on at 0 degrees to measure how much I would need to cut them to fit on the housing. You can see the left side needs no modification.

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:20 AM

But the right side will due to differential housing.

You can see how much I needed to grind to make it fit. I used Dodge perches # P4120074 there are two prches in each box. They were $11 dollars a box. You need two boxes. Though it's not nessesary to put a perch on the left bottom side I did anyway. The right side needs something to keep ubolt from slipping off. If you look ata a stock non SOA you will know what I mean.

This is a diagram of what I ground down with each dot representing an inch. (this is for one side only of the right perch.) Use this for reference only.

Making sure it is level.

I cut the knuckle 1/32 less than 1/4 inch using a depth gauge to measure distance. (You can actually see the seam of the outer housing and the knuckle in this picture.) Also notice the vertical cut to the left. I did this as a refence to stock setting so when I tested the knuckle to see if I had ground enough down and truned it I could put it back to stock again. Turning it was not that hard as others have recommended use old bearing races in the knuckle when turning it otherwise you could deform the race areas and have a mess on your hands.

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:21 AM

Home owners rules states that all 4 tires must be on the vehicle at all times. (looks good to me

)

Back on with the pinion angle set correctly (+14). We also backed this up by installing the diff and lining up the driveshaft. Centered the housing between the springs. Added the new perches with the weight on the front housing and tighten the u-bolts. The weld the new perches enough so when I did the knuckle turn it would hold the housing from turning. I also tacked the bottom perches on at this time.

Ground the cut out on the knuckle to make for a better weld penetration. Turned the knuckles to +5 degrees using a breaker bar and a 5 lb sledge hammer. And then tacked it into place. (Make sure when using an angle finder that you are consistant with where you put it on the knuckle and that it is parallel to the frame and springs.) I found it was easier to turn the knuckle to 0 degrees and then get this right because the more degrees the knuckle is turned the harder it is to get an acurate reading. I also did this with the bearing races in. (not shown in pic)

My helper Alex. Air tools are the best investment. (taking the housing back off)

Welding left perch

Welding right perch

Then weld knuckles on. Then shock, brake, steering stop mounts go on next. I did this while the housing was back on the vehicle for proper adjustment. Then put everthing back on. And your done.

Have fun. It really was not that hard. The grinding and cuting everything off was by far the hardest part.

Jim S. · 08-01-05, 08:35 AM

Hey. Great pics. I appreciate the detail in the write up. When do we see the completed project? Cheers, Jim

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:38 AM

This week. I'll add more pics of the final rebuild after that.

71-CRUISER · 08-01-05, 09:22 AM

Looks good.

camcruiser13 · 08-01-05, 11:10 AM

very helpful troll, i getting started on mine this next week and will use this info. looks good

clemson55 · 08-01-05, 11:22 AM

Very nice Marshal now dont forget any of it before I go SOA in the future (timeframe yet to be determined). I want to see lots of pics and carnage from Tellico in 2 weeks.

greencruiser · 08-01-05, 12:01 PM

great write up dude

the more pics you have makes it easier to understand what really needs to be done

this winter I will be doing some 60 series housing for my 40 along with a shackle reverse and rear disc brakes. and will definatley be doing cut and turn :-)

Klunky Chris · 08-01-05, 02:26 PM

OK, dumb question that will show my ignorance...

is the knuckle ball attached to an *inner* axle?
IOW you are cutting through the outer axle inboard of the factory weld so you can twist the knuckle ball and inner axle INSIDE of the outter axle???

and this will keep the knuckle alligned and centered so your axle seal and such are in the right place?

if so....... I never realized it was this easy. I always had a picture of cutting the knuckle LOOSE ...then trying to hold it on and weld it on while keeping everything alligned.

great pics! Thanks!

woody · 08-01-05, 02:28 PM

outer ball is sleeved about 3" inside the outer housing...makes the cut-turn "relatively" easy that way....

http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/soa/5.html for pics

Trollhole · 08-01-05, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemson55

Very nice Marshal now dont forget any of it before I go SOA in the future (timeframe yet to be determined). I want to see lots of pics and carnage from Tellico in 2 weeks.

Don't worry I won't forget.

Thanks guy for the comments. I welded the knuckles tonight and took some more pics. WIll post tomorrow.

Trollhole · 08-02-05, 08:25 AM

Welding the knuckles.

Mad Chemist · 08-02-05, 08:38 AM

Silly question from a welding newbie- did you TIG weld after the cut and turn? I've got a Lincoln 135, and am wondering whether I'll (or I should say, the more experienced person I guilt into welding for me) get enough penetration to get strong welds?

Great writeup, I'm definitely more of a "visual" learner!

Trollhole · 08-02-05, 08:49 AM

Millermatic 175 mig

.035

I think if you grind the cut out to about a 1/16 from the buttom of the cut you will get good weld penetration. I made sure by watching the sides of the cut to see if they were flowing into the filler material.

I bought my first welder when I was 14 and have been welding ever since; I'm 34 now. Stick and brazing is mostly what I have done. Mig is new to me. I love it though. No slag to deal with and very little splatter. Once you learn the properties of metal and how angles and filler materials interact with them at certain temps and conditions you pretty much can weld with anything. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on a Tig.

Deny · 08-02-05, 03:11 PM

Nice write up! I really liked how you took a picture of every step, makes me want to start cutting!

One question though, how come you welded perches under the axle?

Cheers,
Deny

Poser · 08-02-05, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deny

Nice write up! I really liked how you took a picture of every step, makes me want to start cutting!

One question though, how come you welded perches under the axle?

Cheers,
Deny

" You can see how much I needed to grind to make it fit. I used Dodge perches # P4120074 there are two prches in each box. They were $11 dollars a box. You need two boxes. Though it's not nessesary to put a perch on the left bottom side I did anyway. The right side needs something to keep ubolt from slipping off. If you look ata a stock non SOA you will know what I mean. "

Nice write up Troll...

dmaddox · 08-02-05, 04:12 PM

I am doing this as we speak. I was really concerned about the front diff side perch to make sure it was not creating a "lean". Meaning, to make sure and measure how far from the axle tube to the perch surface. This would make sure that one spring pack was not higher than the other. This is a great write-up, pictures are very nice.

Thanks for the write up, and perfect timing as I am doing all this right now!

-ragman

Pin_Head · 08-02-05, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Chemist

I've got a Lincoln 135, and am wondering whether I'll (or I should say, the more experienced person I guilt into welding for me) get enough penetration to get strong welds?

!

The key to successful welding of thicker stock (1/4 inch or more) with a 110V welder, like the Linc 135, is joint preparation. You need to V or U grind joints to the full depth and leave a 1/16 root gap. Weld in 2 or more passes. Remove the slag in between if you are using flux core. Preheating to 400 F wouldn't hurt and do the second and later passes w/o cooling down.

peesalot · 08-02-05, 04:35 PM

Maddox , in regards to your ? , the outside edge of the perch remains uncut and sits on the last bit of straight part of tube so just grind inside till it sits level and you are golden.

JimL · 08-02-05, 04:46 PM

A1 for photography and writeupy, great stuff Trollhole !

(also, did you really weld the left and right perches with your finger ???)

Trollhole · 08-02-05, 08:47 PM

Thanks for all the positive comments. I wanted to try to relay what I was seeing and what was most important. Thank you for the kind words.

Now back to reality. Shock mounts are on and level. When I cut them off orinally Icouldn't get the whole thing so when I installed them back on i ran two beads down the axle tubeand ground them flat for the shock mounts, This gave me stock height. Steering stops were next. I used the knuckle with one bearing to determine the correct placement, Now all I have left is the brake line mounts. And tap a new vent line that will accept a 1/4 inch barbed fitting.

Trollhole · 08-02-05, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimL

A1 for photography and writeupy, great stuff Trollhole !

(also, did you really weld the left and right perches with your finger ???)

That's my helper Alex. He wanted to point and I wanted to take pictures. A match made in cruiserdom.

HawkDriver · 08-02-05, 09:02 PM

Superb thread troll.

This reinforces my decision to cut and turn on my next SOA. Last time I just didn't want to deal with the cutting and reinstalling of all the little parts. Nice to see some closeups of the actual cut where the turn is made too. Nice welds too. Question is how did the heat effect it, I mean did you do it all the way around at once, take little steps letting it cool? Same with the perches? Thanks and nice lookin Cruiser too.

Trollhole · 08-03-05, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkDriver

Superb thread troll.

This reinforces my decision to cut and turn on my next SOA. Last time I just didn't want to deal with the cutting and reinstalling of all the little parts. Nice to see some closeups of the actual cut where the turn is made too. Nice welds too. Question is how did the heat effect it, I mean did you do it all the way around at once, take little steps letting it cool? Same with the perches? Thanks and nice lookin Cruiser too.

Thank you. I see people talking about heating the ends to get them to turn. Though I did my cold. I don't think heat will affect it. The whole housing it's self is welded together. Though on welding the knuckles I did only wel about two inches then move to the otherside and then come back and rotate just incase.

Pic of the shock mount and steering stops I welded last night.

Trollhole · 08-05-05, 06:46 AM

Finished up the axle last night.

Welded the brake line mounts. I used the old brake lines as a reference.

Made sure the brake parts are plugged so no crap gets in them

Then used the wire wheel on the grinder to clean it up and finally washed it down with brake cleaner to get if completely clean inside and out.

Then bolted diff on with new gasket and painted. Pretty huh

Next thing is to bolt it back on and install the new stainless steel brake lines. And then measure for the driveshaft so I can get it shortened. That will be tonight. And then hubs tommorow and I should be done.

Klunky Chris · 08-05-05, 07:19 AM

did you *point* your pinion upward? IOW: different than stock which is level?
if so how much?
also, are you using stock springs or did you get new ones? what kind?

great writeup!!!

Capt. Jim · 08-05-05, 07:21 AM

Nice work Marshall. And nice write-up, too.

For you and Alex.

Trollhole · 08-05-05, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klunky Chris

did you *point* your pinion upward? IOW: different than stock which is level?
if so how much?
also, are you using stock springs or did you get new ones? what kind?

great writeup!!!

Stock Springs

"Back on with the pinion angle set correctly (+14). We also backed this up by installing the diff and lining up the driveshaft. Centered the housing between the springs. Added the new perches with the weight on the front housing and tighten the u-bolts. The weld the new perches enough so when I did the knuckle turn it would hold the housing from turning. I also tacked the bottom perches on at this time."