78 SOA ?

Rmyshrall835 · 10-31-09, 05:13 PM

Alright so here is the deal.....I bought a 78 FJ40 about a month ago and it hasn't arrived yet. One of the first mods I want to do is a SOA. Being that I haven't seen this vehicle yet im sure some of my ?s will be answered by looking at it. I have only see pics in the threads mud and pirate have, among many others. That being said I still have questions that hopefully you all can help me with. I want to run 35s with saginaw ps, using stock springs. This vehicle will be a dd for a while and will see moderate trail riding, rocks, mud, and water crossings.

* Where can I get mounting brackets for springs, and shocks?

1. Will the 35s rub?
2. Should I use stock springs?
3. If I use stock springs should I need to add a leaf, where can I get OEM, and will I need a longer center pin?
4. What do shims do and would i need them?(i don't get why there are in degrees)
5. I want to go with greasable pins and shackles, where can I find these?(I have found them but don't know if they are compatable with fj40)
6. Do I need to lengthen the wheel base? (I want to)
8. What is the best method for lengthening the wheel base? (I know of turning the springs around, and on the front axle drilling the center pin hole further back, are these adequate?)
9. Will I need to change the pinion angle?
10. If I do this how can you measure how far to cut the axle housing?
11. This being said will I need custom drive shafts, and longer brake lines?
12. Should I convert to ps after the SOA or before?
13 What can I expect to modify with the ps conversion when I am SOA?

.....What just happened.....I think I blacked out....hha I know thats a lot of questions and you are probably saying dude kid not for you to try. The fact of the matter is I have the tools to do it, and help if I need it, plus I know you all are a great source of info, and mostly I want to learn. So that being said any help you can off is great. Here is the hog I will be attempting to modify

CruisinFJ60 · 10-31-09, 05:23 PM

Toyota FJ40 FJ45 FJ55 FJ60

he has some very nice well put together kits if you arnt much a fabricator.

and no you wont need shims, thats is what the cut and turn is for, how far to turn depends on amount of lift.
yes you will need to have the driveline lengths changed and longer brake lines

you can also check out Spring Over Axle Conversions | Proffitt's Cruisers Land Cruiser Restoration for a already cut and turned housing.

and it kinda seems to me some more research on this forum will do you some good. there is ALOT of info on this site that will likely answer all your questions. a SOA is a bit of work and can be tough if you dont know your way around a vehicle, welder, grinder and other fun toys.

79fj40 · 10-31-09, 08:21 PM

I went with Proffitts kit, the front axle housing is already cut and turned as mentioned above, steering tabs welded on and shock tabs with the bolt is welded on. they also send you the sleevs and hangers for a shackle reversal and spring perches to weld on the rear axle housing. I bought some shock mounts for the rear cross member and axle housing from ruffstuff specialties. I am also going for longer wheel base and flipped the front springs and am using fj60 rear springs in the rear and flipping them. I bought the wayback shackle hangers from ruffstuff and spring bushing for the springs from sor so they will fit between the stock fj40 spring hanger and shackles. I plan on running 37's and will need to cut the rear of the tub so as not to rub and am going to use metal tech's front tube fenders in the front. I also have some ford f250 shock towers to use in the front. type in fj40 parts in a common internet search engine and you will find lots of places selling cruiser parts also search in the vender section here on mud and support the ones that support mud, I haven't had a bad experience yet .

hth
Joe

Rmyshrall835 · 10-31-09, 08:40 PM

Nice thanks guys, that makes sense now when they talk about shims they are in terms of degrees to compensate for your caster in place of cut and turn. I have checked out pfoffitts i got the link from a previous mud thread, and its great and all but not only am i in kodiak ak and that would take forever to get back on top of the wait already, i want to do this work myself. Im going to have to check out this ruff stuff place.

Rmyshrall835 · 10-31-09, 09:00 PM

That site is great, do any of you have pictures of your shackle mounts, spring mounts, shock mounts? Im interested to see your set ups, angle of shocks, shackle angle. I can't wait soo soon

79fj40 · 10-31-09, 09:17 PM

read through this guys build http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...eet-sully.html he has some really good pics and decriptions of his build and on the cut and turn of the axle.

Cruiserdrew · 10-31-09, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

1. Will the 35s rub?

No. there is so much room, I'm not sure 37s will rub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

2. Should I use stock springs?

They will work. Wagon springs in the back work better. You have to run what you have. For FJ40s, I think rear FJ60 springs are the best, for a variety of reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

3. If I use stock springs should I need to add a leaf, where can I get OEM, and will I need a longer center pin?

Yes, and generally you want to upgrade the size of the pin too. Napa makes 7/16 pins that are great and much stronger than the originals. Only an issue if you seriously wheel it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

4. What do shims do and would i need them?(i don't get why there are in degrees)

If you are doing it all de-novo, you don't need any shims. In the end you want to get caster right, if you want to drive it on actual roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

5. I want to go with greasable pins and shackles, where can I find these?(I have found them but don't know if they are compatable with fj40)

In my opinion the "best" are the 4+ from MAF. They are stupid nice, for shackles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

6. Do I need to lengthen the wheel base? (I want to)

If you run wagon springs in the back it lengthens the wheel base 4 inches. This is a good thing, overall. Put this in the "not needed, but good to have" category

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

8. What is the best method for lengthening the wheel base? (I know of turning the springs around, and on the front axle drilling the center pin hole further back, are these adequate?)

Really the best way, is just to run longer springs. FJ60 springs are great for this, but FJ55 are the classic and time tested way. Just very few FJ55 stock springs out there, and piles of FJ60/62 springs out there. You need to be a bit more creative with bushings and pins, but FJ60/62 springs are great for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

9. Will I need to change the pinion angle?

yes-but no big deal. It happens automatically when you weld on the SOA perches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

10. If I do this how can you measure how far to cut the axle housing?

The best way is to set it up and then do the cut and turn. the whole point is to get your caster right. (2-4 degrees in a SOA FJ40)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

11. This being said will I need custom drive shafts, and longer brake lines?

Yep-no doubt about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

12. Should I convert to ps after the SOA or before?

Doesn't matter. If you are doing this in stages, make the power steering your first priority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

13. What can I expect to modify with the ps conversion when I am SOA?

Not much, but the taper size in the Pittman arm will depend on what style of steering linkage you use. I am partial to the 4x4 Labs system of using GM 1 ton tie rod ends, but many people use 80 series tie rod ends. Just keep the taper issue in mind as you go through this.

Rmyshrall835 · 10-31-09, 11:20 PM

79 that was a real good thread, I read that one a while back very helpful. Cruiserdrew thank you, also very helpful. If I went with 60 springs and it lengthened me in the back 4" would they rub then? Im trying to avoid cutting up the body. If the 60's lengthened me in the back 4 would i need to bother lengthening the front? If I use the napa 7/16 great idea, i have read of horror stories with people trying to re-drill their spring packs.....Should I be worried bout that? Like you said the 60 springs and more stout equip, it's all about the upgrade, and not 100% necessary....but hell why not right haha. I guess that is the addiction factor. Well great advice I think I will make ps my priority, but that SOA is deff happening.

Oh and how did cruiserdrew make it so what i posted for numbered questions you could see in his post, and then his answer underneath......anyways appreciate the time to dope that one out haha

79fj40 · 11-01-09, 12:46 AM

when you push the axle back it puts the tire farther back in the wheel well, I am cutting mine so it doesn't look bad and I don't want to rub on the back section of the wheel well cut out on the body. I picked up a set of tj flares to mount on the tub so it looks more finished after I cut it.

craptabulous · 11-01-09, 12:59 AM

my 35's would occasionally rub in the front ( i think it happened once) with soa flipped springs in the front .

the 36.5 swamper's will rub on the front if you stuff the tire into the fender . it happens often now .

i run flipped soa 40 springs in the front and 60 springs in the back with a add aleaf . it works well .

mine is also outborded and on 60 axles so maybe thats why my fronts rub , or maybe i should just sawzall more .

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 01:02 AM

dang i was thinking that would be the case, i do like the look of the flares tho so...thanks guys.

Cruiserdrew · 11-01-09, 09:53 AM

I'm not super worried about body work, but here is my FJ40 . It's got FJ62 springs out back and I cut the body with a sawzall to approximate the original shape.

On the front, I did a shackle reversal and flipped the military eye to the front. Overall wheelbase went from 88inches to 99 inches. It wheels extremely well with this set-up.

You can look at my build up here for a few ideas.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...uiserdrew.html

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 11:26 AM

nice thanks.....excellent build I can't wait until my 40 gets hear should be within the week

camcruiser13 · 11-01-09, 11:57 AM

1. Will the 35s rub? maybe backspacing will help
2. Should I use stock springs? yes theyll work just fine
3. If I use stock springs should I need to add a leaf, where can I get OEM, and will I need a longer center pin? no dont sweat it4. What do shims do and would i need them?(i don't get why there are in degrees) cut and turn is a better option
5. I want to go with greasable pins and shackles, where can I find these?(I have found them but don't know if they are compatable with fj40) dont waste your money on them,
6. Do I need to lengthen the wheel base? (I want to) i would while your at it yes
8. What is the best method for lengthening the wheel base? (I know of turning the springs around, and on the front axle drilling the center pin hole further back, are these adequate?) flip the springs
9. Will I need to change the pinion angle? yes cut and turn will changr the front and just turn the rear before you weld the perches on
10. If I do this how can you measure how far to cut the axle housing? do a search too many posts on this11. This being said will I need custom drive shafts, and longer brake lines?
12. Should I convert to ps after the SOA or before? at the same time, itll be easier
13 What can I expect to modify with the ps conversion when I am SOA? ram assist, youll love it

.....What just happened.....I think I blacked out....hha I know thats a lot of answering questions that could be answered by searching by oneself

just bustin your chops

good luck

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 01:42 PM

haha good stuff really appreciate the help

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 01:58 PM

Another question when i flip the springs for length does that mean shackle reversal at the same time....I ask bc I have seen a lot of these guys say how their shackle angle isn't at a 45 degree (don't know how crucial this is). Do they change this by just re-welding the hangers further forward or back to get close to 45 degrees? I basically don't know if the springs are directional in relation to the shackle and the spring hanger. Also when these guys take the pics (since i relatively innexperienced) i can't figure out what the hell is what bc its taken so close haha

camcruiser13 · 11-01-09, 04:11 PM

well while your at it, do it,

if your thinkinhg about the worst thing that can happen is a year down the road you kick yourself because you didnt do it when you had it tore apart

camcruiser13 · 11-01-09, 04:12 PM

sorry about th spelling im trying to watch the packers and vickings play as i stype

Tankota · 11-01-09, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmyshrall835

If the 60's lengthened me in the back 4 would i need to bother lengthening the front?

If I use the napa 7/16 great idea, i have read of horror stories with people trying to re-drill their spring packs.....Should I be worried bout that?

Q1: I would lengthen the front too by turning the springs around AND do a shackle reversal at the same time. Save you from breaking leaf springs. I broke several b4 doing a SOA and since then have not broken a single one and I wheel ALOT harder now than I used to.

Q2: Don't redrill the pack. Spring steel is a type of hardened steel and is very difficult to drill. Just put a new center pin in if you think the original one is worn out (rusted too much).

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 10:05 PM

looks like ill be doing a shackle reversal now... haha good advice tonka...so it looks like sag ps, 60 rear springs flipped w/ shackle reversal, front stock springs flipped with shackle reversal and maybe MAF 3 hole spring perch for more length in the front, and cut-n-turn. Other mods will be custom drive shafts, and brake lines. What do you all think about 60 axle? I probably should just stick with stock for now. I guess we will see how the ps goes when the time comes. Otherwise this seems like a decent place to start for a newguy. Any other advice im all ears.

Rmyshrall835 · 11-01-09, 11:48 PM

When I do my shackle reversal can i just reverse them in the same locations, or will the move from stock since i am flipping the springs and adding wheelbase? I don't reverse the backs as well do i?

camcruiser13 · 11-02-09, 09:48 AM

no reversal on the rear, just flip the springs, if you do a 60 axle its wider and you need to relocate the perches. pita. just upgrade your shafts. take a look at my sig i got some good, post