[O'Shell]

Went to test run my rebuilt engine. The motor sat for a long time before I installed it and then a few years before I cranked it over. It was running fine but I had to replace the rear main seal. I also wanted to check the rear main bearing. See my thread "How far up the creek am I?" So after getting it all back together. I was running it to get my timing set. I had ran it several times since the main cap damage. Then I had some striped threads on the remote oil filter mount. I replaced the filter mount with a very clean unit. Now when I start the engine within seconds the oil filter blows the rubber seal and oil is spraying out. I replaced the filter and same thing. My thoughts are the return line is clogged? Is there a way to tell? How complex is the oil passage after the point where the oil line fits to the motor? Any other ideas on what to check? I put my mouth on it and was able to blow air in...

F engine. With remote oil filter and new ccot stainless lines.

[D'Animal]

What filter are you running?

[Bill McC]

I have an F and I have a F8a (Fram) filter. Or maybe it is a FR8a?

[O'Shell]

First one was a STP, second was a purolator. Both blew the rubber seal out on different areas of the circle.

[craptabulous]

this my insult you but it happens to some people .

you don't have two o-rings in there do you ? some times when you take out one filter the old o-ring stays in the housing and then you put on a new one with a ring already on there and whala double o-ring and it blows oil everywhere .

just making sure you have checked this .

it happens .

[D'Animal]

Do those have the bypass valve in them? Many filters are not built with them. If yours has them, the valve may be stuck not allowing the oil to bypass during startup. It is starving your engine for oil.

Originally Posted by Bill McC

I have an F and I have a F8a (Fram) filter. Or maybe it is a FR8a?

Originally Posted by O'Shell

First one was a STP, second was a purolator. Both blew the rubber seal out on different areas of the circle.

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by ****tabulous

this my insult you but it happens to some people .

you don't have two o-rings in there do you ? some times when you take out one filter the old o-ring stays in the housing and then you put on a new one with a ring already on there and whala double o-ring and it blows oil everywhere .

just making sure you have checked this .

it happens .

Nope. Not it.

I got a perfect remote filter mount from a mud member. It was clean when I mounted it to the intake manifold.

Brand new STP oil filter.

The first second and third time I pulled the filter and cleaned the oil off and reseated the O-ring.

Then I went to another store and used a different book and got the Purolator. It did it with in the first seconds of crank over.

I am kind of thinking on the return line somewhere. The arrows on the mount point the oil flow. I know the pump is pushing oil.

The build up of pressure is at the filter but not because of the filter.

I was just reading about bad or burned rings and blow by? But the posts described the dip stick being pushed out and oil next.

I did bend my new OEM dip when I forgot to pull it out when putting the pan back on. I flexed it back and it seems to fit the same.

Should I pull plugs and check for oil?

Should I try to poke a wire in to the oil return line hole on the block? Maybe requiring removing the headers..

Should I try to by pass the filter for a few seconds hoping the blockage is pushed back to the pan? (The FSM describes the oil flow FROM the filter showering the crank and back to the pan)

Should I throw a hand grenade at it and get a Yugo??

[Pighead]

Is your pressure regulator on backwards? (seen it happen).

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

Do those have the bypass valve in them? Many filters are not built with them. If yours has them, the valve may be stuck not allowing the oil to bypass during startup. It is starving your engine for oil.

The two I used were off the shelf autozone and pepboys. They look like any other filter I have used. Short of the STP was about 3/4" shorter. The Purolator had 4 or 6 crimp marks pushing in on the O-ring.

The pressure builds up at the filter enough to blow the O-ring out at various spots around the ring. Once it was spraying at the firewall another it was at the carb and so on.

I am glad the pressure is at the filter and not the rear main.. Knock on wood...

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by Pighead

Is your pressure regulator on backwards? (seen it happen).

I was reading in the FSM about the pressure reg. It does not show where it is... And under symptoms it only describes problems with low pressure. Where is it and what is the proper way it goes in?

I did run this motor a few times without this problem. After the rear main cap problem it ran fine for a while no prob.

I adjusted the valves hot and went to tackle the timing and the first filter and mount were stripped blew oil. Have a post about it.. http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...ount-help.html

New mount and filter and now this...

[craptabulous]

installed the bearings properly ? i have never touched a 2f but on some engines you can put the tops in the bottom and boom block the oil passage .

again im not much help but if it ran before you did all this its what i would possibly think of . again i have no knowledge of your mechanical aptitude and just trying to be help full .

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by ****tabulous

installed the bearings properly ? i have never touched a 2f but on some engines you can put the tops in the bottom and boom block the oil passage .

again im not much help but if it ran before you did all this its what i would possibly think of . again i have no knowledge of your mechanical aptitude and just trying to be help full .

The only bearing I touched was the rear main. And only half at that. When I installed it I put a bit of oil under and on top. I checked the top half and made sure the line matched. I had checked it with the plasti gauge before the shoulder on the cap broke. I machined it and cleaned it and reinstalled it.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...reek-am-i.html

[Pighead]

Originally Posted by O'Shell

I was reading in the FSM about the pressure reg. Where is it and what is the proper way it goes in?

Your oilpressure regulator is on the driverside of the block, behind the headers...
On an early F, with the filtermount on the manifold, I think one (maybe both?) of your oil lines connect to it. You can take it off, take it apart and see if anything is stuck...or make sure your lines are going to the right holes. Take the return line off at the block and crank it, if oil comes out, it's not the return line that's the problem.

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by Pighead

Your oilpressure regulator is on the driverside of the block, behind the headers...
On an early F, with the filtermount on the manifold, I think one (maybe both?) of your oil lines connect to it. You can take it off, take it apart and see if anything is stuck...or make sure your lines are going to the right holes. Take the return line off at the block and crank it, if oil comes out, it's not the return line that's the problem.

I will double check in the am on the lines. If they are swapped then the flow would reverse in the filter, is that the by pass valve Animal was mentioning blocking a reverse flow through the filter???

Just to check with anyone who knows, the line from the back of the motor on the pressure reg is the IN arrow on the mount and the OUT arrow to the front line that is on the block. Right??

[Coolerman]

Everything you ever wanted to know about, what I know about, the oil regulator. Oil Pressure Regulator

[O'Shell]

Can someone tell me if the return line is in the wrong port here? Looking at Coolerman's pictures it apears that the oil return line is behind the regulator. Mine is in front (blue). There is a bolt (red) behind the reg (green).

[IDave]

Yeah. Return line rearward to the oil pressure regulator. I think you've found your problem.

[O'Shell]

I switched the return line. The hole the line was on still enters the crank case. I checked with a soft thin wire. Checked the other hole with the wire as well.

I pulled the pressure regulator, cleaned it up. Really was not bad the piston slid right out. It did however slide back in easier after cleaning.

I flushed the case with diesel. First I drained the oil. Then I poured some through. Then I filled it with diesel and cranked the motor with just the starter no coil. I then took the return line off the brass angle fitting at the filter mount. As I was cranking the motor with the just the high gear starter I was getting a very slow oil/diesel mix from the return line. I mean slow. My buddy talked me in to thinking that was because without the higher RPM's, pressure and the cold oil that it was just slow.

I then drained the diesel and filled with oil and most of a can of seafoam. Started it up, the auto choke was having a bit of a hard time getting it up to idle (it was 40 degrees today) I was tapping on the throttle for about 10 seconds as it was trying to catch an idle. A second after reaching a good idle,

VVV THIS HAPPENED VVV

[O'Shell]

So high pressure at the filter slow return???

On the mount inside the threads for the filter is the return flow. That hole in there is tiny. My guess is it needs to be for pressure further along??

For this pressure to affect just the filter and not the dip stick or rear main seal would rule out bad rings.

The flow of oil has to be obstructed hence the engine flush. The pump is pumping and it is reaching the filter. Past the filter seems clear. The FSM tells of how the return showers the crank shaft.

If the splits before or after the split for the oil filter is blocked would that cause a back up of this much pressure?

[dohcdelsol93]

i've seen something like this on a small block chevy

it's been years ago.

built a 302, got a high performance oil pump to go with the fresh engine build.

the oil pump was creating so much pressure it was blowing the oil filter right off the block

at that time my dad worked for GE and either made shims or ground down the shims for the oil pump to lower the pressure (pretty sure he made shims but i wasn't with him when he did made them at work and we were drinking heavily during the entire build so it was a bit of a blur looking back now)


another issue that i would consider before changing the oil pump are the feed lines to and from the oil fitler.

are they too small? Think of it as a hose pipe...the hole the more pressure you get. looks like -3 or -4 an...maybe try to get a larger size.

they make an oil pressure gauge that screws right on your oil fitler mount. maybe get one and check just how much psi your getting at the filter.

[IDave]

You haven't mentioned adjusting the pressure relief valve settings on your regulator. Have you tried unscrewing it to reduce the pressure in the system? If it's set too tight, the valve won't open, of course, and you'll have just the problem you're having.

The relief valve operating pressure is supposed to be 44 - 50 psi at 2400 RPM at an engine temp of 176 F.

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by IDave

You haven't mentioned adjusting the pressure relief valve settings on your regulator. Have you tried unscrewing it to reduce the pressure in the system? If it's set too tight, the valve won't open, of course, and you'll have just the problem you're having.

The relief valve operating pressure is supposed to be 44 - 50 psi at 2400 RPM at an engine temp of 176 F.

I did not know this could be adjusted. Its the large bolt on the end? It moves so easily seems if it was not set all the way in it could rattle loose.

My understanding of the Pressure regulator is it stays closed to lube the bearings then when the proper oil pressure is reached it opens the flow to the filter. If it is not open it would not reach the filter right?

[IDave]

Yes, it's quite adjustable.

There is a hexagonal lock nut on the end which, yes, should be tight. But the squarehead bolt that goes in from the front can be screwed in and out, which adjusts the spring tension which then determines when the relief valve opens.

Oil coming from the pump goes through the regulator to the oil filter, but if the pressure rises above the spring tension the relief valve opens up to dump oil back into the oil pan.

Unscrew the bolt after loosening the lock nut and you'll reduce the pressure in the system. The best way to know it is right is to attach a real pressure gauge in the hole for the pressure sensor and adjust to the settings specified.

But yours is almost surely set too high.

From the book:

[IDave]

I suppose it's also possible that the relief valve cap/plug thing (on the right side of the spring in the figure) is simply stuck or glued in place, but if you had it all apart and it wasn't, then maybe that's your answer.

[O'Shell]

I did not know the square bolt and the hex were separate. They are flush since I've had it.

Where can I get a gauger to check it with? Is this something I can rent from autozone? Is it going to have the right thread to attach to the reg?

And thank you very much Mud members I was loosing hope this afternoon.

[IDave]

I got a gauge from Napa with different thread adapters. You can certainly check with autodrone.

[Buckwheat]

Are you absolutely certain you have the return line in the correct port? It is making me wonder if you have it tapped into the oil pressure sender port. It's been so long since I had an F engine I don't remember where the lines went. It is so unlikely the relief valve or oil pump are at fault, I wouldn't waste any time on them until I was certain I had everything plumbed right. Remove the return line from the block & see if you even have any flow out of it. At the same time, you can see what's happening at the block port. Find a running rig for comparison, if you can. If you can't, check out SOR. Maybe their illustrations can help. Another horrible possibility is the engine was not assembled properly & something internal is not kosher, so, rather than spinning the engine with your starter, pull your distributor & get a friend to spin the pump drive, using a drill & a hacked off screwdriver blade. That way you can pull each line off & try to locate where the blockage is without turning the engine.

[O'Shell]

Originally Posted by Buckwheat

Are you absolutely certain you have the return line in the correct port? It is making me wonder if you have it tapped into the oil pressure sender port. It's been so long since I had an F engine I don't remember where the lines went. It is so unlikely the relief valve or oil pump are at fault, I wouldn't waste any time on them until I was certain I had everything plumbed right. Remove the return line from the block & see if you even have any flow out of it. At the same time, you can see what's happening at the block port. Find a running rig for comparison, if you can. If you can't, check out SOR. Maybe their illustrations can help. Another horrible possibility is the engine was not assembled properly & something internal is not kosher, so, rather than spinning the engine with your starter, pull your distributor & get a friend to spin the pump drive, using a drill & a hacked off screwdriver blade. That way you can pull each line off & try to locate where the blockage is without turning the engine.

Yes I am now sure the lines are right. I compared to Coolermans pics and the mount has arrows of flow casted in to it.

I do not see a need to spin the pump without the starter as it only has two external lines.

Blockage is my worst fear. The FSM describes the oil flow from the pump to a split one to the "oil hole" and one to the filter. The "oil hole" splits it to the crank and cam, it then splits again to the rods and rockers. If there is blockage further along the first split would that increase the PSI at the reg and the filter??

I think I am going to NAPA to get a test gauge and a few filters. I will start by backing the regulator adjusting screw 1/4 of the way out?? Too much? Too little? Is this just going to be trial and error till I get a working PSI?? Any other tips for adjusting the regulator?

[O'Shell]

The return line is not clogged. I held the tube to the light and could see right through it. I pulled both brass fittings and checked them. I poked the port on the block with a wire and it was clear and the wire went in to the block 3-4 inches. Seeing the tiny hole in the very center of the filter mount that the oil returns through it is unlikely that anythng passed that point to block return flow.

The problem resides in a build up of pressure before the filter. So the regulator is not adjusted right or further up the other splits is blocked. Right? ? ?

[Buckwheat]

Spread kitty litter all over the floor & do a systematic diagnosis. Does oil come out of the return line or not? If so, how much? Obviously oil is getting to the filter. If it's pissing out oil & the return port is correct, then it sounds like teardown time. Spinning the pump as I described gets a lot more flow than slowly cranking it as well as preventing further damage if there is an internal blockage. It's more likely your problem is blockage, not too much pressure. Compressed air is very useful in these situations - blow out the lines, the filter housing return port & apply it to the block return port. You should hear air blowing into the crankcase. If all that checks out, then it is time to look to the oil pressure. It is possible the regulator is stuck wide open since it receives the oil directly from the pump.