Oil filter spraying oil.

O'Shell · 11-02-09, 05:03 PM

Took me a few days to get an oil pressure tester. I took the line off at the pressure regulator and attached the tester. I then backed the adjuster out till I could see 3 threads. I then cranked the starter and the tester was reading 70 to 80 psi. I backed the adjuster out some more and the same read out. I backed it all the way out and then enough in to catch good threads and same psi read out.

I then for curiosity sake started the motor. It fired right up and the tester hit the max pin, past the 140 top read out. I quickly turned it off...

So my regulator is faulty right? If adjusting it did nothing to the flow when turning with a high gear starter?

The clip of the FSM IDave posted says it should prevent high pressure by means of the adjuster.

But also the way past 140 psi at first start up has me worried too. Is the pump relief valve at fault too? Or the pump is maybe wrong? I have some of the paper work from the rebuild it does say replace oil pump on it...

I do still fear further along the line blockage, I do not have a filter on my old air compressor so blowing air will blow water too, and that is no good. Also to blow the internal lines I would have to block the pump off from that air because of the split described in the FSM.

??? New Regulator????

IDave · 11-02-09, 07:00 PM

I don't see why, if your regulator is working correctly, your pressure is that high, even if there is blockage downstream. I would take the regulator off and apart and make sure that the pressure relief outflow isn't plugged and the spring cap valve isn't stuck.

O'Shell · 11-02-09, 07:25 PM

I pulled it already and cleaned it up. The piston at the end of the spring came out easy I just poked it from the oil line hole. After I cleaned it, it slid back in even easier. I'll go ahead and pull it again. Just for piece of mind before I get a new one. I'll post pics of it. It sure is a PITA to get to because of the headers..

IDave · 11-02-09, 07:39 PM

So you poked it from the oil line hole with the spring in place and it opened up easily? Or only with the spring removed?

If the valve was working I would wonder if the valve drain back to the oil pan is blocked.

O'Shell · 11-02-09, 07:59 PM

Once the spring was removed the piston slid out no prob. I will check both ports on the block when I remove the reg tomorrow.

Coolerman · 11-03-09, 06:44 AM

As someone already posted: Pull the distributor out and make a tool to chuck in a high powered drill to spin the oil pump. This gives you control of this whole test procedure without the fear of ruining your new engine. A good drill will spin the pump plenty fast enough to develop full pressure.

I think there is still a restriction or blockage in the filter housing or return line. If you pull the return line off, put it down in a bucket, then spin the oil pump, you should get LOTS of oil out of the return line, not a dribble. The regulator basically holds the pressure inside the engine at 40-55 PSI. All excessive pressure is used to force oil through the filter and back into the oil pan. As a matter of fact you will get NO oil flow to the filter until the pressure gets to at least 45-55 PSI. At that point the regulator piston is forced off it's seat and allows oil to flow. Since you are blowing up oil filters the regulator must be working!

Test the system by bypassing the oil filter first. Take the output line of the regulator (input line to filter housing) off at the filter housing and stick it in a bucket. spin the oil pump. You should gets LOTS of oil. Put the line back on the filter housing and stick the return line into the bucket. Spin the pump. Again you should get lots of oil (after the filter fills of course). Let us know the results....

Good luck!

O'Shell · 11-03-09, 03:18 PM

Ok I pulled the damm dizy!

I first checked the output from the reg, gushing as expected.

Then I put the filter on and took return (to the block) line off at the block. Gave the drill some juice and it was a nice solid pressure stream of oil.

Time to check the regulator again. I pulled it off and decided to probe the lines with an old broken speed-o cable. When I noticed this. Now because of the headers being bright chrome and blocking a good view I did not see this the first time I had the regulator off. Wow Second hippy-dippy retard-o thing I have found wrong with this rebuild. I hope they didn't block let's say the oil in the head with some cheap o gasket.

Nuff complaining.

Can anyone chime in here and tell me for sure if this would cause a huge increase in oil psi? It sounds right blocking the flow on the reg would cause it to malfunction.

This gasket is on there good, wouldn't be surprised if they used krazy glue. Going to be very tough to get it off. Should I cut the hole out and give it a try? Don't want to get a new gasket just to find its still not the problem.

IDave · 11-03-09, 03:40 PM

Gasket's definitely on backwards partially blocking the return. I'd sure re-do it. Obviously you could just open up the hole more, but I'm more compulsive than that.

O'Shell · 11-03-09, 04:29 PM

Well I cut the gasket and put the cleaned (again) regulator back on.

I this time hooked the pressure tester to the return line from the filter with the filter on. Spun the drill and again maxed out the pressure tester.

Adjusted the pressure regulator and still maxes out.

Now I am at a loss as what to check next...

IDave · 11-03-09, 06:13 PM

Did you probe the return ports into the oil pan, both where the oil line goes in and the port for the pressure regulator?

You said that unplugged, your oil filter lines were obviously not obstructed.

O'Shell · 11-03-09, 09:59 PM

I probed with a broke speed-o cable. The hole that was obstructed by the gasket seemed clear for a ways. The other hole went in and made a right angle down then after about 2 inches stopped. I do not know if it was another turn that prevented the cable from entering further.

I think I am going to pull the pan tomorrow. See what might be going on in there as far as the internal lines I can get to. I will also inspect the pump.

O'Shell · 11-03-09, 10:39 PM

As I was sitting here thinking about pulling the pan again, I remembered I had some photos I snapped when I had the pan off the last time. So I looked back.

Two things here:
1. Is that my return line from the pressure regulator circled in red? With a bolt in it??

2. What screws in to the oil pump circled in blue??

I am learning here that even if you pull the pan to check a rubbing sound at the rear main, and it turns out to be a dried up main seal,, Check everything else..... I got scared when I broke the main cap, so I just wanted to get it back together..

Time to pull the pan again.. Right??

Buckwheat · 11-03-09, 10:40 PM

Were you able to decipher which regulator port was partially blocked? As for no filter on your compressor, just put a rag over the end of your air nozzle - one layer - to catch any possible moisture and air up the return port in the block. (Better yet, buy a filter. It's time to get serious about your tools.) You don't have to use full throttle, just enough to be heard. Per the illustration, it should dump right into the pan, so you should hear the air expelling into the crankcase. Once the return flow path has been eliminated, it means you can put all your attention on the regulator, which IS the relief valve. It opens up and bypasses excess pressure back to the oil pan, per the FSM. If you have backed the adjustor all the way out, there is little or no spring pressure and the oil should be bypassing. Perhaps the numbnuts that installed the gasket backwards allowed something to plug the bypass port. It would not surprise me if the partially blocked port was the bypass port. The other should be the pump feed. You can remove the regulator & spin the pump to see which is which. Or you can take the regulator apart, make sure all the ports are clear & decipher which is the bypass. The bypass should dump right into the pan so air it up & listen. Stop wasting time with the probing process, it isn't useful.

O'Shell · 11-03-09, 11:32 PM

Buckwheat man I have taken the regulator off twice and cleaned it twice. I think that bolt (in red) is in my "pressure dump" port from the regulator. The one that probed fine was to the pump. The other well it seems like it was going in about as far as that bolt is. I think this is the problem. I do wish someone who knows an F engine would confirm if that is the "pressure dump" from the regulator. Seems logical to me, same location as the oil from the pump port.

IDave · 11-04-09, 04:53 AM

Yes, that's the pressure dump. It's toward the front, right? So it corresponds with where the relief valve goes to. I can say for certain it shouldn't have a bolt in it.

Coolerman · 11-04-09, 11:02 AM

Here is a reference pic of my engine when I had the pan off. The return line input to the block is the hole off to the right. There is/was no bolt next to the tube nut as you can see.

O'Shell · 11-04-09, 11:16 AM

Anyone have any idea about what is missing from my oil pump? The blue circle??

Coolerman · 11-04-09, 11:43 AM

I don't think there is anything missing there. In this blown up pic from my pump you can see there is not anything there.

IDave · 11-04-09, 03:53 PM

Mine, too. But the screw in the regulator dump effectively emasculates it...

O'Shell · 11-04-09, 04:17 PM

It is nice living an hour from C-Dan, new pan gasket for $19. And my buddy who's been helping me lives down there, free shipping

The pressure regulator gasket is discontinued. :(

Tomorrow the pan comes off and that $#%&*@ bolt. I'll keep you all posted as to what happens next...

Coolerman · 11-04-09, 07:53 PM

You can make that gasket in 5 minutes with some gasket material. I made 3 or 4 of them while learning how the regulator worked.

Buckwheat · 11-05-09, 04:14 PM

Sorry to be so annoying but now you're making progress. The 2F pump has an integral relief valve so maybe the builder thought he was working on a 2F & blocked that port.

O'Shell · 11-05-09, 06:59 PM

I got the bolt out. Got the pan back on. Oil pressure tester is reading much lower levels now.

Now the problem is my tester is jacked from maxing it out. With nothing attached it reads 18psi. I guess I got to go get ANOTHER one... Do not want to start it with the wrong psi setting...

Until tomorrow...

O'Shell · 11-06-09, 06:13 PM

Just wanted to let you all know shes running! Got the pressure set, fired her up. Lots of smoke from the oil soaked headers but she sounds good. Thank you all for helping me figure this one out... Now if I could only figure out why it ran before, for up to 15 min at a time (total of about an hour) without any blown up filters.

Anyone have any idea where this little monkey bolt is from? Is it supposed to be in my engine somewhere else?? 14mm head. Has some black paint on the top.

IDave · 11-06-09, 06:51 PM

I was going to say the plug for the block drain, but the thread going to the tapered bottom is wrong. But then, it's wrong for any purpose I can think of....

74fj40 · 11-07-09, 04:12 PM

Looks like the bolt that goes in the end of the pressure regulator...?

Buckwheat · 11-08-09, 10:21 PM

The important thing is it didn't belong where you found it. Looking at how hammered the threads are on that plug, it probably came outa the junk bolt bin. And don't thank us, you stayed with it and diagnosed it yourself. All the rest of us did was point you in a certain direction.

I guess we can safely assume your bearings are OK. The reason your other filters held up was probably because they were well made. Now get out & drive it.

O'Shell · 11-08-09, 11:31 PM

Drove it I did yesterday. I only drove it in my round about driveway because I have some serious breaking issues next. I have new pads, machined drums on the front and cleaned up the cylinders. The rears were In really good shape must have been done right before I got it. I cleaned the cylinders and decided the drums and pads were good. After all the adjusting and bleeding, I still have to pump the breaks wayyy too much. I am going to inspect the master tomorrow. My budget has taken a big blow so I hope the rebuild kit from $OR does the trick ($19). The slave was rebuilt already. I know,,,, I need to put some discs on it..

I also have a new Weber and am at 7k' its got a little bit of black smoke coming out. After reading up here I now know I need some new jets. Some people here have received free jets from Weber, I hope they are as kind to me when I call them.

The positive is it runs and drives. I really love how solid this rig feels after driving my 78 for so long, It was a nice refreshing feeling to feel a solid rig again.