Full floater---locker

K2KK · 07-04-09, 04:44 PM

So after the Rubithon there started a loud bang in my rear axle. The culpret was one of the spreader nuts on the hub was for all practical purposes all the way unthreaded and the threads on the hub were a bit buggered up. I managed to get it all back together by backing the inner nut and cleaning up the threads on the end.
now the problem is that the locker doesn't seem to be ratcheting around corners. I realize that I will need to pop the cover and look and see what it's not doing. Are there some things that I should look at? I am a novice banana mechanic and not real farmilur with lockers and I have a lockrite in there.
Basically I am looking for tips to look at when it's open.
When it's open do i need to back the axles out of the locker.

What I did temporarily to stop the locked condition was unlock one side hub and that is working for now but not the fix necessary.
So any tips will be greatly appreciated. Thanks...

K2

dargreg · 07-04-09, 05:03 PM

Some times you will hear a loud bang even going straight ,sounds like the transfer case is falling out .Thats just the way it is with the lockrite . Sometimes mine wont ratchet at all going around corners but will let me know now and then that it is still there.As for pulling the cover on the full floater you,ll have to pull the diff cause there is no cover .If you,ve got a semi floater and can pull the cover check to see if the hub is broken where the little spring and pin go in to hold the two halfs apart.Also from your explanation I cant tell if you are talking about the front end or rear.

K2KK · 07-04-09, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

Some times you will hear a loud bang even going straight ,sounds like the transfer case is falling out .Thats just the way it is with the lockrite . Sometimes mine wont ratchet at all going around corners but will let me know now and then that it is still there.As for pulling the cover on the full floater you,ll have to pull the diff cause there is no cover .If you,ve got a semi floater and can pull the cover check to see if the hub is broken where the little spring and pin go in to hold the two halfs apart.Also from your explanation I cant tell if you are talking about the front end or rear.

Sorry dargreg. I was talking about removing the rear dif cover to inspect the locker. I was just in both sides of the rear hubs and now they are fine. Before this repair on the rear hub the locker did ratchet and did make some noise from time to time but it did ratchet/release.
I broke a hub at rubithon and could something have happened at that time to the locker. I am removing the diff cover tomorrow so my inspection will be then. So right now I haven't a clue what it is just looking for some tips to check at present. Thanks

dargreg · 07-04-09, 06:21 PM

If you jack the rear up and hold one tire from spining and spin the other tire you should get some ratcheting,Do it with both tires.Pull the diff plug and see if any thing comes out.If you wind up pulling the diff the only thing I can think of is your pins have broken and have wedged the two locker halves apart.You can get replacement pins and springs no prob.But if it is ratcheting with the wheels jacked ,change the oil and run it.You could have broken the shaft that goes through the locker also.If it is a full floater and it sounds like it is and you pull the diff have someone set the shims up properly this time ,it sounds like they werent.

K2KK · 07-05-09, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

If you jack the rear up and hold one tire from spining and spin the other tire you should get some ratcheting,Do it with both tires.Pull the diff plug and see if any thing comes out.If you wind up pulling the diff the only thing I can think of is your pins have broken and have wedged the two locker halves apart.You can get replacement pins and springs no prob.But if it is ratcheting with the wheels jacked ,change the oil and run it.You could have broken the shaft that goes through the locker also.If it is a full floater and it sounds like it is and you pull the diff have someone set the shims up properly this time ,it sounds like they werent.

I'll try spinning the wheels and see where that gets me. If the 2 locker halves are apart the 2 sides would not turn together. Is that correct? My concern is that they are both turning and not ratcheting/releasing during turns.
i'll try spinningthe wheels and see where that gets me. thanks

dargreg · 07-05-09, 02:43 PM

If the two sidea are jamed apart the locker will be engaged the little springs and pins lets it release giveing your ratchet effect.

amaurer · 07-05-09, 03:15 PM

Just what do you have under your truck?

If its a Toyota full-floater rear axle, then there is NO diff cover back there. e.g. no way for you to open it an inspect things.

Then you said you unlocked one side hub - you have locking hubs in the rear??? So right now you're driving on 1-wheel drive??

Do you, perhaps, have a Warn full float kit on a semifloat axle, with Warn locking hubs?

K2KK · 07-05-09, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaurer

Just what do you have under your truck?

If its a Toyota full-floater rear axle, then there is NO diff cover back there. e.g. no way for you to open it an inspect things.

Then you said you unlocked one side hub - you have locking hubs in the rear??? So right now you're driving on 1-wheel drive??

Do you, perhaps, have a Warn full float kit on a semifloat axle, with Warn locking hubs?

Well, I am assuming that it is a Toyota axle amaurer. I do believe that it was a kit that the PO had installed. And yes locking hubs in the rear. I did drive a few miles with one wheel un locked just due to the locker not releasing on turns.

Pictures speak louder that words do. And my terminology in this case is lacking.

The two hubs are different since I broke one on Rubithon. In the market for another single hub to match the premier warn hub. Then I will just keep the other as a spare.

dargreg · 07-05-09, 04:39 PM

Thats why you had me confused as to which axel you were talking about.Yes you can pull the cover and inspect things when you do take another pic for us in about 3 positions of rotation.I could be possible you do not have the new hub installed corectly

K2KK · 07-05-09, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

Thats why you had me confused as to which axel you were talking about.Yes you can pull the cover and inspect things when you do take another pic for us in about 3 positions of rotation.I could be possible you do not have the new hub installed corectly

This is interesting dargreg. When I installed the replacement/new hub I had guys at Rubicon Springs looking over my shoulder making sure I did it correctly. When I opened the existing hub in my driveway one of the spreader nuts was completely loose and had buggered up threads on the hub. I backed the inner nut to clean up the threads and reinstalled just as they came out. It is possible that it is incorrect but I am assuming that it is correct.
And i do know what happens when I assume....

When you say 3 possitions of rotation I assume that it is the lockers rotation?

My order of assembly for the premium warn hub on the DS was
1. inner spreader nut, pin out.
2. Keyed washer aligned with pin.
3. Outer spreader nut
4. Hub
5. Spirial clip for the hub.
6. C clip.
7. Spring, gear and lock out hub

I don't think I was leaving anything out. Except the part where I bloodied my finger

Josie'sLandCruiser · 07-05-09, 06:20 PM

Hi All:

From those pics it sure looks like a Warn rear full-floater conversion.

I've read of guy with the factory Toyota full-floating rear axles having trouble with the hubs while running autolockers like the Lockrite, Aussie, etc.

Head on over to the "Diesel & 24 Volt" or "70 Series" section and look for Wayne from Ontario (aka Crushers) He can explain these problems a bit more in-depth than I.

Good luck!

Alan

dargreg · 07-05-09, 06:37 PM

Yes sounds correct,however did the locking portion of the hub go on without difficulty usually I put them on in the unlocked position and they slid right in I have had them go on and remained locked.It sounds like the inner bearing nut my have been loose ,You can tighten then up quite a bit as they are a timken type bearing belive me I use a 3/4 drive for mine.Did you use lots of bearing grease and fill the space up between the iner and outer bearing thats the only way they get lubricated.

K2KK · 07-05-09, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

Yes sounds correct,however did the locking portion of the hub go on without difficulty usually I put them on in the unlocked position and they slid right in I have had them go on and remained locked.It sounds like the inner bearing nut my have been loose ,You can tighten then up quite a bit as they are a timken type bearing belive me I use a 3/4 drive for mine.Did you use lots of bearing grease and fill the space up between the iner and outer bearing thats the only way they get lubricated.

Good! I did install the hub in the unlocked position. And yes the parts went in well. I locked it in after.
The inner was just a bit loose, not much. Maybe a 1/4 turn is all.
I didn't get into the bearing at all. I didn't take the nut all the way off due to the fear factor of not getting it back on with the buggered threads and all. It's all snug now.
I have been told by a few that your not to use much grease in the hub. I used to pack em and was getting grease spray from between the lock out and the hub. I am taking the diff cover off tomorrow and I'll snap a couple of shots too see. It might be obvious. Even to me...

60fj25 · 07-05-09, 09:32 PM

The part number for the Warn Premium hub on the Warn Full floater is PN 39301. There is a small allen head screw in the "Handle" portion of the locker which should be tightened when you lock the hub to keep the hub from trying to turn itself free. (the allen head screw after the word "HUB" in the photo below. Warn used to make a flange (a solid piece with inner splines to match the axle and outer splines to match the hub tube with a o-ringed cover to put on the outside.) If my camera batteries charge I'll try to take a picture of that. It replaced the locking portion of the hub.

K2KK · 07-06-09, 03:41 PM

So, I found the culprit. As you can see one of the pins has broken off and wedged itself sideways preventing the locker to release. Hopefully the locker isn't trashed on the other side as well.

There are some small scaring on the left edge of the pin. Will that matter? Sorry the pics are a bit blurry.

also where is the best place to get additional springs and pins. I guess i should change them all and keep the old for backup. Comments?

Just curious...what are the reasons for this to happen? The locker is about 7 years old and has seen some heavy wheeling.

When I remove the locker I will take some better pics...

Poser · 07-06-09, 03:46 PM

Looks like junk to me...

Time to upgrade.

K2KK · 07-06-09, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poser

Looks like junk to me...

Time to upgrade.

I was kind of waiting for that Poser. It's a double edge sword for me.

Options?
Detroit..? Not skilled in the set up needed so a shop is necessary. I can pull everything out and reinstall.

Heard not good things about OX.
Don't really want and ARB...on a budget.
Are there other box type lockers that are better than this set up?

John Smith · 07-06-09, 03:58 PM

Yep, that locker is toast. Mine died in a similar fashion after breaking one of those little pins. I replaced it with an ARB and am so much happier.

K2KK · 07-06-09, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Smith

Yep, that locker is toast. Mine died in a similar fashion after breaking one of those little pins. I replaced it with an ARB and am so much happier.

I'm not smiling.

I might have the tech to install and ARB myself, not sure. I'm searching for instructions now, and for cost.

Is the difference between a Detroit and an ARB just that the ARB is air powered?

dargreg · 07-06-09, 04:12 PM

Glad you found it its toast get another one or up grade.

K2KK · 07-06-09, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

Glad you found it its toast get another one or up grade.

Thanks dargreg I apreciated your help yesterday too.

Questions though...What are the big differences between an ARB and Detroit? Does one perform better than the other?

K2KK · 07-06-09, 04:34 PM

I just read up on the Aussie locker via FAQ's...thanks Poser.

That thread was in 2005. Are those that have it still happy with it?

K2

dargreg · 07-06-09, 05:19 PM

Detroit is a far superior locker as far as mechanical lockers go.Thats my opinion only and not to be taken as gospel.They have been around a long time and Ive yet to here any complaints.They will freewheel around corners and lock up tight when you need em .Your lock rite is the easiest and fastest way to get you going and unless you are a full time rock climer you should have lots of years with it.and see if you can full time lock those hubs in the future. The ARB is a good diff ,gives you the benifit of a stock diff and you can lock it up whenever you wish which makes it appealing for the front axel also .Down side is price for both and the ARB requires the compressor.

K2KK · 07-06-09, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargreg

Detroit is a far superior locker as far as mechanical lockers go.Thats my opinion only and not to be taken as gospel.They have been around a long time and Ive yet to here any complaints.They will freewheel around corners and lock up tight when you need em .Your lock rite is the easiest and fastest way to get you going and unless you are a full time rock climer you should have lots of years with it.and see if you can full time lock those hubs in the future. The ARB is a good diff ,gives you the benifit of a stock diff and you can lock it up whenever you wish which makes it appealing for the front axel also .Down side is price for both and the ARB requires the compressor.

You are not alone on your opinion of the Detroit. in talking with some wheeling friends the Power Trax is stronger than the lockright. I think though that with the wheeling I do, the Power Trax is only a bit stronger and the detroit is much stronger. The ARB and others like it are out of my $ range so Detroit is it. The mechanic that i use for my off roading upgrades can do the set up in under an hour so that is pretty much a non issue. That is I bring the diff to him. Doing upgrades is like shopping in a candy store!

Rubithon took it's toll on me this year.

K2

Poser · 07-06-09, 06:36 PM

I would weld a carrier before spending the money on a detroit...

K2KK · 07-06-09, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poser

I would weld a carrier before spending the money on a detroit...

A Detroit would release and if the carrier was welded it would not. Wouldn't we go through lots of rubber if it was welded? Why is it better? I still drive it around town and to some out of area runs. I think I am graduating to a

and a half

.

dargreg · 07-06-09, 07:54 PM

I think Poser means he doesnt like them,And some people dont I can see why they don,t however for what I do I would go with the Detroit over the lock rite if they were laying beside each other.

Josie'sLandCruiser · 07-06-09, 09:11 PM

Hi All:

Considered a mini-spool?

Regards,

Alan

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KRC73
Forum Regular

Quote:
"KRC73," tell us more about the 12 bolt mini-spool install!

Any modifications required on the mini-spool to get it to fit/work in the TLC diff?

The 12 bolt mini spool was a fairly easy install, everything fit just like it should have in a Chevy 12 bolt rear end. Only mod. was to slightly trim my c-clips.
So far no off road test, on road its nice no noise just no tight turns. Can't wait to test it off road but i would have to say i would recommend a mini spool for anyone wanting to cheaply lock they're rear diff.

-kenny