[joeyg1973]

OK now that I have a job again and I am making money I can finish getting the engine running on a test stand. To that end I am really only waiting right now on one thing and that is the adapter plate from Chris in Idaho. Hopefully it will be at my house when I get home tonight.

Here is a list of fuel parts that anybody doing a TBI conversion on an F will need to get. Nobody has these collected in one place so I am putting them here.

DORMAN 800-151 Fuel Line Connector
DORMAN 800-153 Fuel Line Connector
GATES 27085 5/16 Fuel Hose 10'
IDEAL 52F15 5/16 Hose Clamp x 10
AIRTEX E8228 Fuel Pump
GATES 27088 3/8 Fuel Hose 10'
IDEAL 52F16 3/8 Hose Clamp x 10

[joeyg1973]

Link to a recent... ummm... discussion about the feasibility of my choice in PS systems for the most part.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...-steering.html

And of course let's not forget the original... cough... discussion about the same thing.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...riable-ps.html

[joeyg1973]

Well even though I got an email from Chris in Idaho on Saturday stating that the adapter plate has shipped, I still haven't recieved it nor has he replied to my emails asking where it is. There is also no contact phone number on his website. TBI Adapter Plates

I really wanted to support a new small vendor from mud but I am not very happy with the turn around or service. I am sure there is a good reason for it but I haven't gotten an explaination yet. I am hoping I didn't just waste my money.

[joeyg1973]

Found out that you can get pigtail connectors from Ford to complete the wiring to the Taurus fan and the edis-6 coil pack. They are only made by Ford and they are not cheap. One is 30 odd bucks and the other is 40 odd buck. The one for the Taurus fan isn't made anymore and the guy told me that there appears to be just one in stock somewhere in Texas. Hopefully I can get it but the chances are slim.

Taurus fan pigtail connector, wire harness side. WPT706
EDIS-6 coil pack pigtail connector. WPT511

[tlc_4play]

I see on your engine rebuild you used an "assembly lube" on the barrels and bearings
I have never seen Assembly Lube in South Africa, wish we could get it here.
I normally use a good dose of new/clean 20W50 engine oil on barrels, pistons and rings.
And, on the mains and big ends (white metal bearings), I apply a layer of industrial grade Petroleum Jelly together with a squirt of new/clean 20W50 engine oil.
Is the Assembly Lube thicker or thinner than engine oil?

[joeyg1973]

Thick, sticky, and red.

[Trollhole]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

Well even though I got an email from Chris in Idaho on Saturday stating that the adapter plate has shipped, I still haven't recieved it nor has he replied to my emails asking where it is. There is also no contact phone number on his website. TBI Adapter Plates

I really wanted to support a new small vendor from mud but I am not very happy with the turn around or service. I am sure there is a good reason for it but I haven't gotten an explaination yet. I am hoping I didn't just waste my money.

I still think the Downey plate even with it's issues is the best product on the market to date.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

I still think the Downey plate even with it's issues is the best product on the market to date.

Yeah if this doesn't work out I already had that in mind. You gave it a very good review and it does look like they put more thought into it than the others. I just wanted to give the new guy a shot and be the guinea pig for mud.

[joeyg1973]

This is the link to my review of the tbiadapterplates.com TBI adapter to a 2f motor.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...f-adapter.html

I will go with this for now but I am probably going to order one from Downey. Marshall recommends it and I trust him.

[joeyg1973]

I need to know what the heck this hole is on the manifold side of the block... It seems to be threaded, but it isn't a 6mm or a 7mm. It actually looks like it also doesn't appear to have a end. Looks like it goes into the water jacket so I have concerns about it. Ether way I am thinking this is a good place for me to put my knock sensor.

[joeyg1973]

Pretty pictures. Keep in mind that some of the items are temporary, namely the valve cover and the distributor cap. I need to wait till I hook up my bigger oven so that I can clear PC my the polished valve cover I have. As for the cap, I just need to get on my lathe and make a replacement, but it isn't high on the priority list right now. The spark plug wires are temp too... they are the ones I got off the Ford V6 along with the coil pack.

I have the coil pack setup so that one piston is TDC and the other piston is at BDC are wired to the same dual coil on the pack. I have wired it 1+4, 2+5, 3+6. I think this is right, but it never hurts to have someone check your work.

[joeyg1973]

I need to get all of this connected and talking with the engine.

[joeyg1973]

I feel that replying to questions below from Marshall which are more specific to my setup here is better than cluttering up my tbi adapter review thread.

In the thread http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...f-adapter.html post #12 Marshall asked the following.

...

Originally Posted by Trollhole

You map sensor will also need to be either looped back to the back or run the map up in the front of the block. More wires. You need to have the MAP sensor line as short as you can get it.

All you Vac ports you need should be on the manifold or the TBI unit it'sself. You shouldn't need one in the spacer below.

...

Take a look at the first picture, unlike the GM computer, the MS2 has it's map sensor built in to the computer. I just need to use some hard plastic line from a good vacuum source to run it back to the computer. I had my doubts about running it like this, but there is all kinds of testing on the MS2 sight that show the difference between getting the vacuum right the source as opposed to using a hose is so small it is negligible. I agree that getting vacuum from the port up front that the regular GM one is hooked to is the better way to do it then what I have it hooked to now, but for me to get an adapter and a small length of hard plastic hose to hook up to that means a 30 minute car ride one way. I will worry about it at some other time.

I agree that I don't need the vacuum port in the spacer and that is why I have broken it out. The spacer cracked in removing the pipe so I epoxied it back together and I am going to fill up the hole left behind now.

[malcb]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

I have the coil pack setup so that one piston is TDC and the other piston is at BDC are wired to the same dual coil on the pack. I have wired it 1+4, 2+5, 3+6. I think this is right, but it never hurts to have someone check your work.

Tired and going to bed but firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 so shouldn't that be 1+6 5+2 3+4 ?

Damm now I am going to think about your MS and firing order all night.

One idea on the MAP, I ran a length of soft copper pipe with stiff but flexiable plastic? sections both ends.

EDIT: See the problem - "wasted" half of the spark should be firing into exhaust stroke of the cylinder - hit yourself on the head with that knock sensor.

[Toyo FJ40]

Is there an advantage to wasted spark on a nonturbo engine? I just got a VW 1.8T running on MS2 and Mega Squirt's running the coil packs with wasted spark. I did it because it was easier to run 2 ignition wires out of MS than 4 and wasted spark can help spool the turbo.

Kevin

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by malcb

Tired and going to bed but firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 so shouldn't that be 1+6 5+2 3+4 ?

Damm now I am going to think about your MS and firing order all night.

One idea on the MAP, I ran a length of soft copper pipe with stiff but flexiable plastic? sections both ends.

EDIT: See the problem - "wasted" half of the spark should be firing into exhaust stroke of the cylinder - hit yourself on the head with that knock sensor.

Hmm I think you may be right about the firing order. I was just finishing up a 13 hour day of driving around collecting parts, welding, test fitting, digging up parts that are in boxes and bags somethwhere, etc., etc. Good catch.

Good idea on the copper pipe. I will use that when I get around to putting the engine in the truck.

I already bought the knock sensor I might as well use it.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Toyo FJ40

Is there an advantage to wasted spark on a nonturbo engine? I just got a VW 1.8T running on MS2 and Mega Squirt's running the coil packs with wasted spark. I did it because it was easier to run 2 ignition wires out of MS than 4 and wasted spark can help spool the turbo.

Kevin

I never heard about wasted spark helping to spool a turbo. I can't really understand how a spark in an oxygen depleted exhaust stroke could help at all actually. In the case of the MS2 I can't really see how coil on plug or 1 coil per plug is any better than wasted spark. Not like you can do GDI or anything crazy like that with the MS2 as it is mainly geared towards TBI.

[joeyg1973]

In the first picture, does anybody know what kind of plug I need to fill this hole?


I need some ideas to mount the coil pack on the engine somehow. I have some thoughts, but nothing solid yet so I am open to suggestions. 2 pics.

[malcb]

Originally Posted by Toyo FJ40

Is there an advantage to wasted spark on a nonturbo engine? I just got a VW 1.8T running on MS2 and Mega Squirt's running the coil packs with wasted spark. I did it because it was easier to run 2 ignition wires out of MS than 4 and wasted spark can help spool the turbo.

Kevin

No particular advantage except no dizzy, suppose that might make waterproofing easier.....

Never heard of wasted spark helping turbos, sounds unlikely. I know of MS systems running anti lag like used on rally cars, air addmitted by an idle valve under closed throttle conditions and mixture ignited while exhaust valve is open or just before but I would guess wasted spark wouldn't work with that.

Any reference for the theory?

[FJ40Jim]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

I agree that I don't need the vacuum port in the spacer and that is why I have broken it out. The spacer cracked in removing the pipe so I epoxied it back together and I am going to fill up the hole left behind now.

The pictured spacer is from F engine.

The 2F spacer would have been a better choice because :
The plenum is larger.
There is no PCV tube in the front.
There is a heat insulator shield that covers up most of the headers near the TB.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

The pictured spacer is from F engine.

The 2F spacer would have been a better choice because :
It is open plenum.
There is no PCV tube in the front.
There is a heat insulator shield that covers up most of the headers near the TB.

Interesting... That was what was on it when I got it... wait or was it... I think I might have swapped some thing around when I first got both 40s. Long story short I got 2 40s at the same time, 1 a 71, the other a 79 that was a rusted fiberglass mess. It didn't have the room for both so I had a week at a space where I hacked the 79 up for it's parts and tried to put it all into the 71. Epic Fail! I will have to go look at the F motor in storage and see if it isn't there. The heat shield was hacked to pieces already by the PO. I don't think that I need to worry too much about heat with these headers. They are ceramic coated inside and out which should take care of a lot of heat problems, at least that is what is advertised about ceramic header coatings. Think my time and money is better spent cutting this spacer open or just get one for a 2f. For that matter what about the adapter plate being 2 barrel and not open? Downey sure is sounding better and better.

[FJ40Jim]

I recommend getting a 2F heat shield. It is not open plenum (my typo), but it is bigger, since it goes underneath a bigger carb.

[malcb]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

I already bought the knock sensor I might as well use it.

Don't be so defensive - was just suggesting you would kick yourself when you thought through the wasted spark.

I have a knock sensor to fit, did have it fitted but without boost it wasn't needed, easy to implement with MS so why not.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by malcb

Don't be so defensive - was just suggesting you would kick yourself when you thought through the wasted spark.

I have a knock sensor to fit, did have it fitted but without boost it wasn't needed, easy to implement with MS so why not.

Not being defensive, I just didn't get the joke at first.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by FJ40Jim

I recommend getting a 2F heat shield.

The ( and I know I am getting grumbles at this from some people ) aesthetics of that heat shield are horrible. If I have to have a heat shield, I will build something custom that is more visually appealing.

[Toyo FJ40]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

I never heard about wasted spark helping to spool a turbo. I can't really understand how a spark in an oxygen depleted exhaust stroke could help at all actually. In the case of the MS2 I can't really see how coil on plug or 1 coil per plug is any better than wasted spark. Not like you can do GDI or anything crazy like that with the MS2 as it is mainly geared towards TBI.

I'm running 2 pair batch fired port injection and MS2 extra runs it fine. From what I understand it can run sequential port injection. You might be right about not spooling the turbo. When I first hear it it kinda made sense if it could fire anything left in the chamber but the lack of O2 should stop that.

I don't get the Coil on plug or one coil per plug reference regarding wasted spark.

Doing some reading on wasted spark the advantage is the coils cycle less so at high rpm the coils have more time to charge and produce a hotter spark. So running wasted spark on COP like I am actually doubles the cycle rate and I guess can lower the spark output at high rpm. O well.

I will say run wide band if you can. It's nice to watch Megatune adjust the VE fuel table on it's own.


Kevin

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Toyo FJ40

I will say run wide band if you can. It's nice to watch Megatune adjust the VE fuel table on it's own.

I am going to use the Innovate WBO2. I can't wait to see the Megatune do the auto adjust. Should be a cake walk once I get it started.

[joeyg1973]

In post #73 in this thread I mostly answered Marshall's question about the MAP sensor location and said that I really didn't need to be concerned about it's location as there was some research done by fellow MS users and enthusiasts that show there was no or negligible loss.

In the thread http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...f-adapter.html post #12 Marshall asked the following.

...

Originally Posted by Trollhole

You map sensor will also need to be either looped back to the back or run the map up in the front of the block. More wires. You need to have the MAP sensor line as short as you can get it.

All you Vac ports you need should be on the manifold or the TBI unit it'sself. You shouldn't need one in the spacer below.

...

For completeness, here is a quote from the MAP section of this MS page. Wiring and Sensors

Don't worry about how long your MAP sensor vacuum hose is. Intuitively it seems that shorter should be better. However, a few people have done tests to see how bad the effect of a long hose was on vacuum signal propagation. With a ~100 foot (~30 meters) coil of rubber tubing in between the MegaSquirt® and the engine, the result was that no delay was apparent. This was with about a 10 millisecond resolution clock. The reason for this is that air has so little inertia that it moves very quickly in response to a vacuum (this is how we fill the cylinders, after all!).

[malcb]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

In post #73 in this thread I mostly answered Marshall's question about the MAP sensor location and said that I really didn't need to be concerned about it's location as there was some research done by fellow MS users and enthusiasts that show there was no or negligible loss.

Research?

Experimentation is perhaps a more suitable term but I agree it doesn't seem to make much difference - if anything a longer connection line can help with slugging impulses from wacky cams etc, don't forget the reaction of a fuel injection system on a car engine is very slow electronic terms. Main benefit of the MS install is reduction in electrical noise.

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by malcb

Research?

You say tomato, I say

Quit nit picking.