Ring & Pinion WTF!!!!!!

[ontherox]

Ok i'll try to keep this legible as im getting really pissed off lately!


So my order from cruiser outfitters finally made it to the door today,After like three weeks i can now get to doing my 4:88 gear swap.Well for one,one of the r&p sets is wrong so now i have to return it and wait for the new one.

So then i got started on my front diff for now to calm down and do something fun.All was going well until i got to the first real important step - Pinion preload.After about 3 hours of f*&%#ing around with it i was getting nowhere.

I can put the original preload washer in and use ALL of the shims that came with the kit and....no change compared to one shim???
still waaaay to tight before even torquing it down.Sooo after all this i tried the crush sleeve instead which i was avoiding all along.Come to find out im hitting like 200 foot pounds before im even showing threads past the pinion nut!!!

So eventually i did some coarse measuring and investigating and found what is shown below: the original machined lip on th toyota pinion is like a 1/4" strong higher on the shaft than the new sierra shaft which makes sense since im not even hitting shims yet on the new haft! Is this normal? if someone chimes in and says that it is ok to have like 3/8" worth of preload shims in there than i'll do it at this point lol.

You can see below that the machined lip is way different than original even though everything else about the r&p set seems to fit like a gloveInitially i thought it might be due to the bearing pitch but as shown with the races everything is level and the same.





I have a good understanding of how all this works and am an accomplished mechanic,this is my first ring and pinion but i was not really fearfull until now,what am i missing here??

[ontherox]

Might i also mention i want to shoot myself in the face?

[Pin_Head]

The new pinion is designed to use a crush sleeve, so why not just go that route?

The bearings definitely have a different taper, so I don't know how this will influence the preload specs.

Somebody makes a steel tube that slips over the pinion to allow using shims to set up the preload, but I don't remember who.

[BLKDOG40]

maybe this will help
planned on doing my 4.56 install today, but found crush-sleeve :( - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

[ontherox]

The new pinion is designed to use a crush sleeve, so why not just go that route?

As i stated above,the reason im not using the sleeve is because i tried already and it seems like it is waay too long,would it be ok to shorten it?

[ontherox]

OK guys im retarded,just called kurt at cc and i guess that as the link posted above suggests (thanks) the setup can only use the sleeve.

So last night was a waste! apparently the sleeve will require like 300 ftlbs to crush which makes sense,i gave up last night at like 200.

I'll give her another go tonight.

[Fast Eddy]

Originally Posted by ontherox

apparently the sleeve will require like 300 ftlbs to crush which makes sense,i gave up last night at like 200.

Remember, it's easier to get feet than lbs. Put a long pipe over your breaker bar. I like to use a 6' pipe with a 50 lb kid hanging off the end.

[ontherox]

I was thinking about rigging my ratchet to the end of a 16 foot pressure treated 4x4,should make easy work of it!

[ontherox]

well sweet,finally a good night to leave off on.Got the crush sleeve to finally give for me and got the preload set.Upon setup of the ring gear all went awesome and by the books.Ended up not having to change the height shims and had literally a textbook perfect result with the mesh patterns,also correct backlash as well.

Just have to put in the seal and reassemble the carrier inards tomorrow,then i can get the front axle together.I did the front first since it is used less and now i can go into doing the rear with one successful R&P job under my belt :-)

[cruiseroutfit]

Glad you were able to get it all figured out. Let me know if you run into any other issues.

Just to clarify... ALL aftermarket ring and pinion sets are manufacture ONLY for use with a crush sleeve... in fact Toyota also switched to a crush sleeve design in the latter 1980's.

All of our install kits do include the pinion shims, but ONLY so the kit can be used on old ring gears... they won't be used at all on crush sleeve style 3rd members.

[ontherox]

Glad you were able to get it all figured out. Let me know if you run into any other issues.

Just to clarify... ALL aftermarket ring and pinion sets are manufacture ONLY for use with a crush sleeve... in fact Toyota also switched to a crush sleeve design in the latter 1980's.

All of our install kits do include the pinion shims, but ONLY so the kit can be used on old ring gears... they won't be used at all on crush sleeve style 3rd members

Hey thanks for all the help and sorry for the PITA that my order has become.All honest mistakes though so to whoever is reading this - yes you should buy from cruiser outfitters

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally Posted by ontherox

Hey thanks for all the help and sorry for the PITA that my order has become.All honest mistakes though so to whoever is reading this - yes you should buy from cruiser outfitters

Not a worry at all... I need to clarify that on my website, along with the fact that ALL aftermarket ring and pinions are also fine spline and thru-bolt style where they attach to the carrier. Not an issue in your case but it is an issue in some older FJ40 installs

[ontherox]

Does the listing also mention that all the ring and pinions are for crush sleeve use only? or am i the only one who didnt know this (now seemingly obvious) info

[eleblanc]

I'm doing mine also, didn't realize that you need to torque that much.

anyone know by how much the crush sleeve compress? once all set.

[ontherox]

you can pretty easily measure it up to see.I would say like a 1/2" or so.Once it starts to crush its a lot easier.

[bsmith123]

Useful info--seeing the difference in the shafts I would of thought I had the wrong part! Good to know

[eleblanc]

Originally Posted by bsmith123

Useful info--seeing the difference in the shafts I would of thought I had the wrong part! Good to know

this is exactly what i though, wrong crush sleeve, the new spacer i have is 41231-60020 if anyone can confirm. but the difference i have with old and new is only .04.

The issue is that with my truck even being a 1983 at the dealer there are no crush sleeve. Si i took a crush sleeve from a BJ70 that uses the same R&P kit, that is use on my truck.