Need Opinions in Axle Seal Carnage

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 12:58 AM

I tore my knuckles apart about a month ago and after getting the driver side knuckle apart, I found this on the ground:

73fj · 06-21-08, 12:59 AM

Your Birfield is Kaput. IMHO

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 01:05 AM

I figured that I would determine where it came from later and proceeded to spend about 3x as much as I thought it would cost in parts to acquire the needed components to make my axle road worthy. Well I am to the point where I have all the parts, everything is clean and painted, and today I pulled my axle seals out to find this carnage in the drivers side axle housing (I dont know the correct term)...

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 01:16 AM

My question to all you is do I need a new axle housing? As can be seen in the above three pictures, the piece of metal that fell out caused some serious scarring. The last picture shows the worst of the damage at about 5 o'clock. The shoulder in which the axle seal should sit is no longer a perfect circle. You can see where the metal has been deformed and pushed in, which I am worried will not allow me to put my new Marlin axle seals in without being torn up and deformed. Can I take a dremmel to this and fix it? What would you all suggest?

The Marlin axle seal also has an outer lip that will have to sit against the outer most shoulder that has been badly scarred as well, that the stock seals do not have. I am assuming that I will have to grind this shoulder smooth to get a good seal. Should I attempt to fix this or go for a new axle housing? I would really prefer to not have to find a new housing but I don't have enough experience to make the decision on my own.

I do not know where the piece of metal came from. I am assuming it came from the innards of the Birfield, but as I am a poor recent college graduate, I do not have the correct tools to take the birf apart to inspect. I have visually inpsected it and cannot see anywhere where this piece could have came from. There is no visual damage to any part of the axle.

Any comments and opinions appreciated. Thanks,

Evan

amaurer · 06-21-08, 01:23 AM

I don't think you need a new axle housing. Clean up the sealing surface for the seal with the dremel as you propose and run it. The rest of it still looks more than capable of containing grease.

I'm no expert either, however.

e rock · 06-21-08, 01:26 AM

The piece of metal came from your birfield. It needs to be replaced. Do not put it all back together and try to run it like that. A stock replacement is probably your best bet for the sake of simplicity and $$.

Other than a big hammer to remove the birfield from the inner axle shaft, no tools are needed to take the birf apart. Once the inner axle has been removed, the inner race, balls, and cage can be removed if you play with it a bit. The shrapnel in your picture came from the cage.

It's tough to tell from the picture how extensive the damage is to the seal bore. It looks like the damage is limited to the outer face, in which case I would clean it up with your dremel and press the new seal in until it bottoms out and call it good. The other scarring in the knuckle ball is of no consequence really.

e rock · 06-21-08, 01:27 AM

Forgot to ask - what year is your cruiser/this axle?

andrewfarmer · 06-21-08, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaurer

I don't think you need a new axle housing. Clean up the sealing surface for the seal with the dremel as you propose and run it. The rest of it still looks more than capable of containing grease.

x2

Yes you'll need to get the outer face smooth for the marlin seal but easy with a dremel. I used a half round file on mine last time and worked OK but took a lot longer :(

While you're in there take the sharp edges off the other gouges as well - so you dont slice you hand open next time you're in there and go to wipe out the grease - BTDT

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 01:48 AM

Thanks for the replies. I don't have a BFH so I can't get the inner axle out yet. I thought the same thing about the piece coming from the cage, but I cannot see where it came from and there is not damage to any of the pieces that you can see w/o taking everything apart. It's almost like the PO put everything back together w/o taking that piece out when repairing a broken axle, though I doubt that happened. Tomorrow I will go buy a BFH or a piece of metal tubing as has been stated by many in the FAQ and take the axle apart and see if I can find where it came from. I will also pick up a dremmel and some calipers so I can use the knuckle centering tool I borrowed. F*&% this is getting expensive, but I guess I knew that when I bought it. Oh, and the axle is on a 12/79. I am not positive on that because this thing could have been bastardized, but it has disk brakes and the large knuckle pattern so I just assumed it is all from the original truck.

e rock · 06-21-08, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWheeler

Oh, and the axle is on a 12/79. I am not positive on that because this thing could have been bastardized, but it has disk brakes and the large knuckle pattern so I just assumed it is all from the original truck.

Large knuckle pattern means you can use minitruck birfields - not quite as cheap as old coarse-splines, but plentiful and readily obtained.

Once you get the axle shaft out, you should be able to inspect the whole cage without actually taking it apart - just be careful not to let the balls fall out unless you want to REALLY learn about how it goes together. If the cage is intact, run it. That piece is definitely from a cage, so if it's not from the one you've got, there is no reason to replace yours.

You may want to call your local Toyota dealer asap to get a new spring clip because you'll probably destroy the old one removing the birf. Some dealers have them in stock, others don't

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 02:10 AM

erock, appreciate the replies. I have read about replacing the c-clip and have also read that sometimes they stay intact. Crossing my fingers for the latter. I have also read about the Martack, which sounds like an awesome solution for on trail fixes. I do not have access to a welder at this point so it is not really an option. I kinda want to take the birfield apart just so I know how to do it and how to put it back together correctly. It is always nice to know how things are dis-assembled/ re-assembled so when you have to do it out in the middle of nowhere you aren't F'ed.

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 02:13 AM

I see you are from Monroe. It seems there is a large 40 following in Western Washington. I just moved to CO a couple of months ago after graduating from WSU. I grew up out on the coast in Port Angeles. I definitely miss WA, but the weather here is so nice I can't complain too much!

MDH33 · 06-21-08, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWheeler

...but as I am a poor recent college graduate, I do not have the correct tools to take the birf apart to inspect. ...

Any comments and opinions appreciated. Thanks,

Evan

You need tools and lots of money to own a 40. Just saying.

Seriously though, I would be tempted to look for a donor axle housing. Rebuilding axles is a messy pain in the arse and I would bet that the seal will leak and you'll be doing it over soon IMHO.

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 09:33 AM

Are the axle housings year specific or can I grab one from any 40? What about mini trucks?

pigpen4x4 · 06-21-08, 11:39 AM

I'm originally from PA too. Haven't been back there in about 9 years or so though. I graduated from CWU and one of my little sisters graduated from WSU. Staying on topic though... I just rebuilt my axles a few months ago and the last few steps you will have to take to check the cages is not difficult if you have any common sense, which I see you have since you have already gotten this far. It is definitely worth the time to take the axles apart and check for carnage. I tried the BFH and just ended up getting very frustrated...maybe it will work for you though. I then tried the pipe trick and it worked like a charm after about 6 or so drops to the ground. I highly doubt your c clips will stay in tact; mine broke into about 3 or 4 pieces. If you have a buddy with a welder, or can even go find a friendly guy at a shop, the martack is definitely the way to go. I just printed out the directions and took them to a friend who hooked me up. 5-10 min of work and it was done, all ground down and everything. Much easier for getting it back together!! Good luck and keep us posted. I feel your pain and definately know what its like to own/work on a Cruiser with little to no tools or money, but you definately learn a lot!

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWheeler

I see you are from Monroe. It seems there is a large 40 following in Western Washington. I just moved to CO a couple of months ago after graduating from WSU. I grew up out on the coast in Port Angeles. I definitely miss WA, but the weather here is so nice I can't complain too much!

EWheeler · 06-21-08, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigpen4x4

I'm originally from PA too.

Wow, it really is a small world! Thanks for the axle advice, I am working on getting those things apart today.

Tools R Us · 06-21-08, 01:53 PM

That damage is only cosmetic, wont effect the operation at all, I have seen them much worse from total birf failures. As others have said deburr, get a new birf and put it together. When installing those seals, I thoroughly clean the bore where the seal goes and the outside of the seal, apply a thin coat of silicone sealer to both contact surfaces and install. The silicone makes extra sure it doesn't leak.

67azcruizr · 06-21-08, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools R Us

That damage is only cosmetic, wont effect the operation at all, I have seen them much worse from total birf failures. As others have said deburr, get a new birf and put it together. When installing those seals, I thoroughly clean the bore where the seal goes and the outside of the seal, apply a thin coat of silicone sealer to both contact surfaces and install. The silicone makes extra sure it doesn't leak.

Ditto on this.

When you're separating the birfield from the inner axle, just use the "old pipe" method, it works the best.

Find an iron pipe with an ID large enough for the inner axle to slide into it, and longer than the long side axle. I like to use a floor flange on the end that I'll be dropping the axle/birfield into

hope this helps