Spring bushings

[thepinktaco]

I bought new spring bushings for a set of springs I have that are going in my cruiser. They are factory Toyota 90385-15002.

The bushings fit a little loose in the spring eye and are about 1/4 wider than the spring eye. The spring eye is 2 1/2 inches and the bushings together are 2 3/4.

Is this normal? Do the bushings squeeze together and make them fit tighter when the bolts are tightened?

[amaurer]

Naw, that ain't right, the shoulder fill the space between the spring and the hanger without having to crush the bushings.

There are a bunch of different size bushings: different shoulder thickness, different ID's, etc so many people have ended up with the wrong ones. Someone smarter than me will have to help you with just which flavor you need.

[Rocky_LC]

SOR had (probably still does) a bushing selector, that would allow you to size busings by lengthe, ID, OD and flange thickness.

They were relatively expensive - but that's when you get when you bus a cruiser....

Good Luck

Rocky

[IDave]

The bushings should go firmly into the spring eye, and the shackle bolt should fit fairly firmly in the bushing. You want the movement to be the shackle bolt (0r the spring pin) within the bushings, and no movement of the bushing within the spring eye, or you'll get premature wear and a lax suspension. You grease the shackle bolt but not the spring eye.

When you are satisfied with the circumferential fit of the bolt/center hole and the fit within the shackle eye, then as far as width goes, you can make some modification. If there's a gap between the shoulder and the shackle, you can use a grinder to cut down a little of the bushing center to make the shoulders fit flush. (I think this is one problem you're describing.)

If the shoulders are too thick to fit in the shackle, you can grind a little off of the outer aspect of the shoulders to make them fit.

I have had to do a little work with the grinder to make things work. Ideally, you want them to fit perfectly, and yes, SOR still has that very nice chart with a lot of choices that will get you close, but I've found that's not always what happens.

[thepinktaco]

The bushing I pulled out had 15002 on it but I could not read the first number, but that should only be the generic part number while 15002 is the specific.

[thepinktaco]

Well they fit good in the frame mount, the only problem now is the springs? I dont understand why stock bushings dont seem to be the right ones, espically when they had part of the part number on them.

[thepinktaco]

So am I the only one with this problem or what?

[IDave]

You sure your springs are stock?

[thepinktaco]

Originally Posted by IDave

You sure your springs are stock?

No I got them when I bought a frame from somebody. I was thinking though that the newer springs have different size bushings. So maybe the springs are from a 80s and I got the bushings for a 75. Im going to have them look at work tomorrow to find the part number for the 80s FJs.

[thepinktaco]

Same part number as the ones that came out. I wouldnt think that the bushing would be squished to take up that room. The 3rd pic I think is an aftermarket spring. I didnt realize that they are different than the other 3. I have another set, plus one thats still good on the FJ.

[thepinktaco]

Nobody has anything? Am I the only one using stock spring bushings.

[lostmarbles]

Hi there.

All 24 bushes on my 1979 forty are Toyota part number 90385-15002 (or SOR part number 289-40-S).

I don't want to contradict IDave but my bushes ("original Toyota rubber ones" and the "SOR urethane equivalent") have always been a loose fit on their OD (Spring eyes and "chassis-tubes") and a tight fit on their ID (fixed pins and shackle bolts).

If they were standard and like mine, your spring eyes should be 68mm wide. That's approx 2 3/4 inches. So you appear to have some weird narrow springs there if they are only 2 1/2 inches wide! (Compared to mine anyway. )

How wide are your "chassis tubes" (that the bushes sit in within the chassis rails)? Are they 2 3/4 inches or 2 1/2 inches? Surely they should match your spring eyes!

If they don't, you'll need bushes with different "shoulder-thicknesses" (top versus bottom) on your shackles. And that'll cause headaches for anyone working on your suspension in the future (who is ignorant of what you have done).

And when you insert both bushes into a springeye, their shoulders should seat against the spring eyes without the bushes touching each other inside the springeye first to prevent this. (They should NOT sit proud and need to be "squished during assembly" in order to seat.) The same thing applies to the fit of the bushes in the "chassis tubes" too. Edit- 7 July 8.35am NZ-time - Just measured a spare new OEM bush and I get 35mm as its "insertion depth". So, as my springs are only 68mm wide at the eyes, it looks like the bushes do indeed touch each other inside the spring eye (or "chassis tube") a tiny bit before their shoulders would seat. ---- But this isn't noticeable in practice (when fitting them). - My guess is that the shackle widths and fixed pin widths allow about a millimetre of clearance anyway so I still don't think the bushes get compressed much during installation.

Sorry - Is this what you wanted to know?

PS. My guess is that someone had used standard bushes in your "unusually-narrow" spring eyes but had shortened them (the bushes) prior to fitting them. (And I'm only calling your springs "unusually-narrow" because they are 1/4" narrower than mine. - For all I know - earlier model cruisers may have got narrower springs. I'm no expert on the changes that occured between models. But I do know later models than mine got bigger diameter spring-eyes than mine - 35mm dia. compared to my 1 inch dia. - as I recall - but the eye width stayed about the same - maybe an increase of just 2mm giving 70mm compared to my 68mm)

[thepinktaco]

I was only told they were from a crusier, so that is the information I was looking for. Im going to match them up with the ones that are broken and on the Fj now and see what I come up with.

[lostmarbles]

Originally Posted by thepinktaco

I was only told they were from a crusier, so that is the information I was looking for. Im going to match them up with the ones that are broken and on the Fj now and see what I come up with.

Note that I've just edited one paragraph in my previous post. (I've highlighted it with orange colour.)

Just yell out if you want more information because I took heaps of measurements when I recently fitted new geaseable shackles, new greaseable fixed pins, and new urethane bushes to my front axle. And I still have all that stuff sitting in my lounge ready for my pending overhaul of my rear axle suspension.



PS. I guess those springs with 2 1/2" eyes could be fitted to a cruiser like mine if I trimmed some of the "insertion depth" off each bush that fits in those eyes and then added the equivalent thickness as a "shim washer" outside it (on the shackle bolts and fixed pins. (But getting such a washer in place on the far side of a fixed-pin may be a pita.)

Other measurements that may be of interest to you:
My stock Toyota springs are basically 70mm wide but they are narrowed to 68mm only at the springeyes.
Front spings have 7 leaves while the rear have 6.
Original shackles side plates are 70mm boltcentre to boltcentre and 77mm apart (as best as I can measure).
The bush "flanges" are approx 4mm thick - So that implies about 1mm clearance when everything is bolted up! (68+4+4=76 = 1 mm short of 77)
Springeye-centre to springeye-centre distances (with weight lifted off springs by jacking): Front 1068mm Rear 1050mm - but then these springs are almost 30 years old and have probably lost some of their "arc" so these measurements are probably useless to you.

[IDave]

Originally Posted by lostmarbles

I don't want to contradict IDave but my bushes ("original Toyota rubber ones" and the "SOR urethane equivalent") have always been a loose fit on their OD (Spring eyes and "chassis-tubes") and a tight fit on their ID (fixed pins and shackle bolts).....

Well, I take no offense, LM. I was just repeating the strict instructions which came with my shackles! I claim no expertise! (However, it makes sense to me that you'd want the pins to rotate in the bushings rather than the bushings in the eyes. )

[lostmarbles]

Originally Posted by IDave

Well, I take no offense, LM. I was just repeating the strict instructions which came with my shackles! I claim no expertise! (However, it makes sense to me that you'd want the pins to rotate in the bushings rather than the bushings in the eyes. )

And I fully agree with what you say here Dave.

At least with my greaseable pins/bolts, when I apply grease I'm confident it gets to the area between the bush OD and the "chassis-tubes"/spring-eyes - because I believe is would "swell" the bush ID if necessary and get there via the gap/joint where the bushes meet eachother. (And I do indeed see grease coming out EVERYWHERE when I apply my greasegun.)

But sure - I too would be happier thinking of the pins/bolts rotating inside the bushes - But the significantly-tighter fit makes this unlikely.

And whenever I have removed old non-greaseable rubber bushes, they have always been "solidly-bonded" to rusted shackle-bolts/fixed-ins - again suggesting that the only rotational movement was occuring at the bush OD.

Anyone else like to comment?

[thepinktaco]

Well I matched them up with the ones on the FJ now and they are a different size. I took the best pair to clean up and paint to use but I guess they werent from an FJ. I guess I have to tear apart the other pack, I might end up using just the main leaf since the ones that are on it now look good except the fronts are bent and the rears the eyes broke.