remote brake booster; an option?

[n2666s]

Have posted this in the 55 section on "body transplant" but it might have a lot more exposure here and is pertinent to all that have single system brake master cylinders and want to upgrade BOTH brakes and engine
Question; has anyone used a remote brake booster when there has been a 2f install in an earlier pig or other LC with a single system nonboosted master?.......I personally do not like the idea of a single system although we drove around for years with them......and without a booster
in this transplant 69 body to 79 frame with 2f; there is just no way that the booster + master cyl will fit with the 2F and carb........the toyota brake booster and master unit would knock out the carb.........hotrodders use a remote booster and we had the hydrovac/bendix remote booster for single systems in the 50s ; europeans used the old ATE-50 series also same time period and single system; these folks make a dual system remote booster Engineered Components, Inc. - Hot Rod Brakes and Brackets - Your One Stop Brake Shop!
any thoughts and comments are welcome; TIA


Lou

picture on left is 78 fj55 with dual system and booster
picture on right....transplanted 69 body on 79 frame with 2F in place showing single system original unboosted brake master cyl clearence situation!

[andrewfarmer]

A freind of mine did this in an early 40 - worked fine - used a Bendix VH44 booster.

[n2666s]

Andrew, do you know if he went with a single or double system?.where did he place the remote booster?; Degnol exchanged the single for a double master off a corvette a while back fabbing an adaptor from 3 bolt to a 2 bolt pattern BUT it was unboosted; TIA

Lou

[handcannon]

n2666s

You might want to check out the hydro boost on Chevy Astro vans. I have a both a 97 and a 98 Astro and each is boosted using the power steering pump. The hydro booster and master together might be small enough to fit your space.

[65swb45]

Lou, this is one of those times when a picture is worth a thousand words!

1. From the looks of pic #2, you've got more room to work with than the 45 I currently have in the service bay. A LOT MORE ROOM.

2. You would have even more clearance if you were using an F engine carb instead of the 2F carb.

3. You would have yet MORE room than that if you changed to an F engine intake manifold.

From what I can see in your pics, you would prolly have enough room at that point to bolt an FJ60 booster and master directly to your firewall and be done with it.



P.S., you definitely get more traffic in the 40 forum.

[andrewfarmer]

Originally Posted by n2666s

Andrew, do you know if he went with a single or double system?.where did he place the remote booster?; Degnol exchanged the single for a double master off a corvette a while back fabbing an adaptor from 3 bolt to a 2 bolt pattern BUT it was unboosted; TIA Lou

It was a single system. But I've also seen it done on a double with just the front circuit boosted.

Booster can go anywhere you've got room

[Klunky Chris]

funky!
THREE bolt MC?!?

That will cause a bit of a problem

[n2666s]

Andrew, thanks for the follow-up..am trying to avoid a single circuit and would like to boost both front and rear; waiting to hear back from some folks in Cali who fabricate remote booster kits for racers; this is their websiteEngineered Components, Inc. - Hot Rod Brakes and Brackets - Your One Stop Brake Shop!
K-Chris.....have been scratching my head on the bolt pattern; in the past Mark A sold an adaptor; hopefully he might fab up a few more.......would much rather go entirely Toyota to keep things simple?will keep y'all posted on how things go..........

Lou

[n2666s]

hmmm, just got a rebuilt F carb back from a dude in Burbank wondering what would be the downside of using an F carb on a 2F manifold??.don't have an F manifold; do have a SBC with a downey adaptor and a 3 speed floor shift with TC

Lou

[Klunky Chris]

well...
you *could* knock the nuts off the fire wall, drill a new pattern and weld on new nuts? That would take care of the bolt pattern.
Little involved, but should be easy to get right. Bolt the new MC tight first, then spot on the nuts....

[andrewfarmer]

question - what brakes are you running - discs/drums? something else?

[n2666s]

Andrew, have the original disk brakes in front and drums rear.....this a 79 fj55 with a rotten body BUT a 69 fj55 body installed in it about 10 days ago...the brake system on the 79 worked flawlessly.....but he body was rotted out all pillars were gone along with the floor and roof..found a 69 fj55 with a failed chevy small block install that was to be sent to the crusher BUT it had a veery nice rustfree body thus the body swap...TIA for your insight;

Lou

[n2666s]

K-Chris thought about that option BUT would have to also move the clutch to the left; the 69 firewall has a large vent that later firewalls do not have and would have to weld this up and move both clutch and brake MC to the left; would also then have to move the brake and clutch pedals that would create an interference problem as the early fj55s had straight pedals with the steering column in between and the later ones have offset pedals towards the left side of the steering column.have included a few pix of the measurements;
#1..top left 79 firewall; Clutch to fender attachment distance; 5 1/2 inches
#2..top right 69 firewall; clutch to fender attachment distance= 8 inches with intervening drivers vent
#3..bottom left 69 firewall; brake MC to inner firewall panel distance = 4 inches moving brake MC inwards would create more interference.
TIA

Lou

[65swb45]

Lou, again, your pictures, with measurements, are AWESOME!

Since you are so friggin handy with a camera and a tape measure [and I mean that in the nicest possible way!] what is the absolute distance between the centerline of the brake master cylinder and the nearest point on the clutch master.

Obvious reason for asking is to figure whether a firewall mounted booster sans adapter would clear the clutch.

Best

Mark A.

And yes, I am moving closer on my own 69 pig brake upgrade.

[Klunky Chris]

would one of the *stand off* adapters used to clear the firewall rib on early FJ40's work to take care of the clutch master problem?
not sure what the result would be with the carb clearance issue though....

[Degnol]

Originally Posted by n2666s

hmmm, just got a rebuilt F carb back from a dude in Burbank wondering what would be the downside of using an F carb on a 2F manifold??.don't have an F manifold; do have a SBC with a downey adaptor and a 3 speed floor shift with TC

Lou

I run a '74 carb(cable linked) on a 2f manifold. Made a spacer out of aluminum to raise the carb so the linkage would clear. Other than that, it runs just fine.
OTOH, I have a nice F intake that I would give you for the shipping.....

Ed

[n2666s]

Ed; have seen pix of your adaptor and it is beautiful.....also have done a bit of research on the corvette dual circuit master cyl......it looks great.....only concern that I have is the fj55s weight being nearly 25% more and stopping it w/o a booster....thewill be driving it ocasionally or even one of my daughters so just thinking ahead, love the craftmanship on your adaptor
might have to take you up on the manifold if the clearence continues to be a problem.......thanks for the kind offer
K-Chris; yep that is what degnol fabbed; awsome piece of work but the 2f I have won't let me put in the brakebooster + master
Mark.......am working out of state but will get to the pig this weekend and take the measurements for ya

Lou

[andrewfarmer]

Originally Posted by n2666s

Andrew, thanks for the follow-up..am trying to avoid a single circuit and would like to boost both front and rear

Consider this:

A standard dual, boosted master with front discs and drum rears runs a proportioning valve to restrict the flow to the rear to prevent lockups. By boosting only the front circuit you get the same effect.

I don't think you need to boost both circuits - front only will be fine. If it's a major issue for you, you can run two remote boosters - they can basically go anywhere - but I think if you try it with one you'll be happy with it

Do try to get a decent sized remote booster.

A collegue, when fitting discs to early cruisers, rather than fit a proportioning valve to restrict the braking to the rears, fits a remote booster to the front circuit (essentially double boosting it) to increase pressure - gives brilliant brake response.

HTH
Andrew

[n2666s]

Andrew, it sound logical.........let me get the measurements to Mark A. and see where I go from there, have driven cars with remote boosters in the past and they did very well.........thus the interest when I ran out of space to install the Booster and Master off the 79 pig; hey, they were free

Lou

[n2666s]

BTW Ed; you are an artist with aluminum; so you fabbed a spacer for the 2F manifold to use the F carb!; only time I tried to weld aluminum with OA it dripped ...spashed over the floor

Lou

[60fj25]

I had a brake guy build a 3 hole to 4 hole tube adapter long enough to clear the firewall rib. I used a smaller booster out of a Lincoln I believe.
There is a smaller one for the clutch master. (this is an FJ25)
I'll try to attach a photo

[cruiserbrett]

there are factory toyota remote brake booster setups. check around, I think the last one I saw was in an FJ40(45?) from new zealand. I am sure older toyota sedans might have had this too. somewhere, there are pics posted of the setup. Optional outside the US IIRC.

they uses a single circuit master on the firewall to operate a remote brake booster, with a two circuit master cylinder attached. BMW's, mercedes and others also have had these. In fact I think even newer 5 or 7 series BMW's have remote boosters-pretty sure they are hydroboost, which is another option. LOTS of options there.

[n2666s]

Brett,60fj25, thanks again for the valuable input....thank goodness there are options; at first I was very discouraged when after busting my butt to get the 69's body on the 79 frame and finding out there was no way I could get the brake setup to work.......i did search this forum for info on a remote booster but could not find a thread.........BUT heck, with y'alls experience and help I think we can pull it off............rescuing two pigs from the crusher no way in hell I could pull it off on my own....Thanks again
Mark A. the distance between 69s brake master centerline and clutch centerline is 6 inches...........HTH

[n2666s]

BTW.........60fj25, you have an awsome setup on your 25.....wow, I don't think I remember them that nice when they were new

Lou

[Degnol]

I run a non-boosted Corvette 4WDB master with the old rib. Seems to stop 33s well enough. Don't really know about FJ55s though. Made my own adapter....

Ed

[n2666s]

Damn, that is one fine looking adaptor...Ed, is it aluminum?, heliarc'd?...nice counter sinking also....

Lou

[Degnol]

It is 2 plates, 3/8" and 1/4" welder'd together. I had a buddy cut the hole in the center and plasma out the pieces.
The spacer for the carb? Just a 1" chunk of aluminum with 4 holes drilled and the center machined out, but thanks for the compliment


Ed

[n2666s]

fine looking work.maybe Santa can get me a plasma cutter one of these years....................still would't be able to do the countersink artwork though!