remote brake booster; an option?

[n2666s]

took more measurements today and the distance from centerline of the original single circuit to the carb linkage is only 2 inches..........TWO inches; there is now way any booster will fit in that "normal" position.......if I want boosted will have to go remote unless I go with a firewall transplant
I just inherited another dual circuit brake booster/master for a drum brake fj40? so along with the minitruck booster/master and the 79s booster/master I have 3 working master/boosters
the firewall on the 69 has a 3 hole pattern for the single circuit MC.........have searched the thread but cannot find any mention about going from single circuit master to dual circuit unboosted 4 bolt pattern...Degnol used a corvette MC unboosted dual circuit on his fj 40 going to a GM two bolt pattern.....
question; has anyone set up an unboosted toyota dual circuit master cylinder? TIA

Brett, cannot find any info on remote toyota set ups........but am brain dead today working on getting off rusty bolts.
Andrew......after going with the MC swap to a dual circuit, plan on boosting the front system...have experience in the past setting up remote boosters on european cars BUT our LCs are different animals

Lou
pix are on left; .......2 inches from centerline of fj55s MC to carb linkage and on Righ; Degnol's elegant solution of changing to a dual circuit

[Degnol]

BTW, that pic shows a '74 carb on a 2F manifold, and I still had to remove the choke pull-off to get the master to fit. My adapter uses just enough thickness (could use less) to clear the rearmost fitting from the firewall rib so I was not cutr or notched in any way. Dunno about the 55 firewall, but maybe you could gain another 1/4-3/8" and do the same?
Ed

[n2666s]

Ed, do I understand that you have an F double barrel carb on your 2F manifold?, am I correct?, if so; what did it take to get it to work?...........the F and the 2F carbs are scarily different...and yes, I don't need as much clearence on the rib as you do so the adaptor does not need to be as thick.......BUT the linkage is only 2 inches from the MC centerline did you go with a cable setup?.TIA

Lou

[65swb45]

The new cable linkage conversion should eliminate THAT linkage issue Lou.

FWIW, I run the Toyota dual circuit master cyl unboosted on my 65swb. I made and marketed the adapters for that conversion.

I do NOT think that is the right direction for you to go.

Best

Mark A.

ps. I will be off the boards for the next week. Moab

[Degnol]

Yes, '74F carb on a 2F manifold, but that is a pic of my '74 F motor. The same setup now resides on my 2F. Yes, it is cobbled-cable linkage. I replaced the F carb spacer with a block of aluminum that is slightly thicker to clear the cable setup.
Better pics of my current setup...........tomorrow.


Ed

JimC just rebuilt a 2F carb for me and provided an Aussie cable linkage setup, so that will be going on as soon as I get to it.....being the lazyass that I am

[Degnol]

Originally Posted by 65swb45

I do NOT think that is the right direction for you

Why say? Not Toyota? Esoterics?
Good to know you can run a dual circuit Toyota master unboosted and get the Whoa!

Ed

Have fun in Moab.....

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by Degnol

Why say? Not Toyota? Esoterics?
Good to know you can run a dual circuit Toyota master unboosted and get the Whoa!

Ed

Have fun in Moab.....

A pig is a LOT heavier than a 40 or a stock 45swb.

AND I think he intends to use his rig a lot more than you or I do.

AND have you seen LCJ's thread in the 45 forum.

[Degnol]

Originally Posted by 65swb45

A pig is a LOT heavier than a 40 or a stock 45swb.Agreed...in most cases

AND I think he intends to use his rig a lot more than you or I do.Uh, wheel it more or street?

AND have you seen LCJ's thread in the 45 forum.Nope, but I'll go check it out

Ed

Can you link LCJ's thread? The only one I found did not reference a M/C????
I have about 6K on the Corvette with 33's and no problems.................yet.

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by Degnol

Ed

Can you link LCJ's thread? The only one I found did not reference a M/C????
I have about 6K on the Corvette with 33's and no problems.................yet.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-...ned-60mph.html

[n2666s]

Mark, Ed, thanks for the input.....yep, that has always been a prime concern of mine when I made the decision to go ahead and take on the two pigs going to the crusher.........brakes!, personally have been in a situation where a single circuit system failed and it was a very long <seemed like a million years> seconds before it came to a stop in the arms of a very sweet tree, staring at a few hundred feet fall beyond it, thus the main part of my initial efforts have been to make the brakes reliable........dual circuit at the very very least and then boosted at least the front circuit via a remote booster system.
Mark, yes, you are right again......I do put some miles on my LCs; last 6 months around 7000 miles.
after reading LCJ's thread about"Gene's" accident and bringing back memories of my own and of others that I have seen ........... my observation to those of us that still have the original single circuit master........change to a dual circuit ASAPractical; condolences are a bitch

Lou

[Degnol]

Here are some better (I hope) pics. The tip of the master is 8 3/4" from the firewall. I made my adapter to position the MC so that I would not have to notch the rib for the rear fitting. To save space, you could just drill a couple of holes for the GM master to bolt directly to the firewall. That would save 5/8".

As I said, this is a '74 F carb on a 2F manifold and it uses the old style cable linkage. I needed to raise the carb enough to clear the bellcrank on the cable linkage. My new JimC carb has a different cable setup, the one they use in Oz. I guess because of the RHD deal they are all cable linked?

Sounds like Mark is all for a dual circuit braking system, just not in favor of the GM master? That was what I was trying to find out. IIRC, it has a 1" bore, but there are also stock FJ40 masters with an even larger bore. Seems like I read something about that. Dunno

GL

Ed

[n2666s]

Ed, thanks for the pix.........in the conversations with Mark A. he is very much against a unboosted system on a pig becuase of the 55s weight/inertia...BUT looking at your solution; there should be not problem boosting the front circuit via a remote booster; we were doing this in the 60s........I like the elegance of the way you solved the problem and just have to figure out where the cable setup will go; should be getting it when Mark A. gets back from Moab and can get a better feel for where everything has to go........rest asssured I will not drive a single circuit on the road, it is an accident waiting to happen; in aviation there are certain circulars put out by the FAA called ADs and they are mandatory to comply with; if you fly without complying with them you do so at your own risk and as long as nothing happens you are OK BUT if as will happen sooner or later you have an accident because of this failure you will be in serious trouble with the FAA if you survive and aircraft insurance will probably not cover any damages, injuries or death because of the "flying recklessly" and "failure to comply with mandatory AD"......single circuits IMHO are an accident waiting to happen!..........I have experienced this personally Ed thanks again for all the help and advice and me on the right track

Lou

[n2666s]

Ed, have a question on your lines going into the Master cyl.; did you put in SAE spec. flares and remove the 10mm line nuts or use an SAE to 10mm metric adaptor?..............TIA

Lou

[Degnol]

What you see screwed into the MC is an SAE to metric adapter, then the 10 x1.0 metric brakeline fitting. I just double flared all the lines, which to my amazement, was not at all difficult. I held the flaring tool in a vise which made it a whole lot easier to get the necessary grunt on it.
A booster would be nice and I even have the section of firewall and pedal assembly from a later '40 that has the "S" shaped rib and moves the MC outboard. However, in a panic stop, I have locked up all 4 wheels.............like Bambi running out in front of me a 60mph.

GL

Ed

[65swb45]

My Toyota dual circuit master is now LIVE on my lwb45 as well. What did you end up doing Lou?

[n2666s]

Mark, knew you were at Moab and heard it was awsome.....was waiting to hear back from you........did you get a chance to send the linkage to cable adapter set up to install the 74 carb on the 2F motor?

Lou

[65swb45]

Lou, I finally got around to mounting the booster and master combo into the 68 piggy at the shop. As I thought, there was sufficient room for the combo with the F engine manifold and carb. Here are a couple of pics.

[robmir]

Sorry to barge in since I do most of my posts in the 80 series forum but I started to overhaul my abandoned 74 FJ40 for my son, so I will start to post some pictures in a couple of weeks but so far here is what I did to address it's braking problems:

Since it has a smb chevy, I already added power steering and sourced a GM Hydraboost combo with chevy dual master circuit to replace the OEM unboosted master cylinder with it's unsafe single circuit.

Then added a newer front axle with OEM disc brake, and was lucky to get a OEM FF rear to which I welded caliper holding brackets to use the same front pads and calipers, machined two front rotors to fit the rear hubs replacing the drums because I had the transfer parking brake.

Since the rear brakes were over killing I installed a pressure regulator and fine tuned the rear pressure until I got the right F/R balance. I guess I will try to adapt a body conected proportioning valve similar as the 80 series carry, to adjust the rear pressure as the rear raise or go down.

That was made about 20 years ago and for the latest 17 years I keeped it running it was the best braking combo and I wished my 80 had half of it's braking capability.

[Degnol]

Originally Posted by robmir

Sorry to barge in since I do most of my posts in the 80 series forum but I started to overhaul my abandoned 74 FJ40 for my son, so I will start to post some pictures in a couple of weeks but so far here is what I did to address it's braking problems:

Since it has a smb chevy, I already added power steering and sourced a GM Hydraboost combo with chevy dual master circuit to replace the OEM unboosted master cylinder with it's unsafe single circuit.

Then added a newer front axle with OEM disc brake, and was lucky to get a OEM FF rear to which I welded caliper holding brackets to use the same front pads and calipers, machined two front rotors to fit the rear hubs replacing the drums because I had the transfer parking brake.

Since the rear brakes were over killing I installed a pressure regulator and fine tuned the rear pressure until I got the right F/R balance. I guess I will try to adapt a body conected proportioning valve similar as the 80 series carry, to adjust the rear pressure as the rear raise or go down.

That was made about 20 years ago and for the latest 17 years I keeped it running it was the best braking combo and I wished my 80 had half of it's braking capability.

Your '74 should have had a boosted dual citcuit


Ed

[n2666s]

Mark, looks great!; now have this situation; a 79 running 2F with manifold in a 69 pig; have an f 1/2 rebuilt carb in box from some dude in Burbank also from the same source a conversion kit in box to change linkage to cable......have a new booster and master off the 79 pig......what will I need to get it set up like yours? and what pieces can I use from mine?...... TIA;

Lou

[n2666s]

Mark; I forgot to ask..........how do you like the brakes now?

Lou

[breckbone]

I'm in the process of converting to a dual-circuit master on my 68. I have Mark's adapter, but, before I buy a new master, I need to know which years had a dual circuit w/no booster. I'm asking because the one dual circuit I have as an example has no lip to hook the rubber dust boot onto. Would I be looking to get a 70-71 in this case? I tried to look at SOR to find my answer but found a lack of visual info. I forgot to ask Mark about this on the phone and just thought of it today...a holiday ...so I figured I'd post.

Thanks for any help!

[Degnol]

AFAIK, Toyota did not make an unboosted dual circuit master. At least not for the LC.

Ed

[breckbone]

Ok, thanks, Ed. I guess I'll have to call Mark after the weekend and see how he hooked his up w/o a booster and WITH the dust cover...which I'm assuming has some degree of importance...heh.

[Degnol]

eBay Motors: TOYOTA Land Cruiser FJ40 FJ60 OEM Brake Master Cylinder (item 150264757206 end time Jul-05-08 09:51:25 PDT)


This appears, from the photo, to have a lip, at least, that could accomodate a dust boot. Also appears to be the same as the one Mark used.

Ed