Electric power steering pump / Variable PS

[Coolerman]

Yes, and some new vehicles won't have separate starters, alternators or flywheels. They will be combined into one unit that starts the vehicle, generates power when running, recovers power when braking and provides the flywheel function.

Oh did I mention the 42 volt system?

Change is inevitable... Conformance though is optional...

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

So then, why is everything in heavy industry run on diesel electric then?

Why are these pumps coveted for use in racing applications?

Why are all the manufacturers rapidly moving to this setup?

A quick search on ebay motors shows 3 electric power steering pumps from 3 different car companies, Subarau, Mazda, and Cadillac.

electric power steering pump, Parts Accessories items on eBay.com

Either I am onto something here or I am the dumbest smart person ever.

DC motors are great at delivering uniform torque at any RPM, which is why they are popular in industrial drive applications. Is it the most efficient method? Not really, but it has advantages that outweigh the inefficiencies in certain applications.

I see a lot of guys on this forum talking about what people do in the racing world as far as lubricants and stuff go. I hate to break the news but an FJ40 is not a race car. It's closer to a tractor. Just because something is the kitties titties for racing does not mean the technology will apply to every situation.

The auto industry is also moving to a higher standard voltage, 42V IIRC? As we see more and more hybrids on the road you will see more and more electric accessories. This is because there will be energy stored in batteries rather than making energy on demand as is the case with strictly internal combustion systems.

Theres lots of stuff on e-bay, I even saw a lowered FJ40.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it or it's a bad idea. Just pointing out a couple of things. By all means proceed and keep us posted with your findings.

[Advent]

From the reading I've done on pirate, the electric pumps don't flow enough to power a hydraulic winch. Since electric winches are pretty darn easy to come by, using one would probably work better.

Two advantages to electric power steering pumps that nobody has mentioned yet:
1. You can run another alternator in the position a power steering pump would be. Duplication is good.
2. You can steer without the engine actually running. Need to get towed off the trail because you blew your engine? You can still have power steering!

If you run a hydroboost system with the electric pump you can also still have boosted brakes while the engine isn't running.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Advent

1. You can run another alternator in the position a power steering pump would be. Duplication is good.

But what about the parasitic drag that spinning another alternator creates on the engine?










Out the window goes all that power and the mileage increases one would expect with installing electric power steering.....

[Advent]

I'm just saying you could run two, or even three, alternators because there would be room for it.

I agree on the drag really not mattering with these engines. There are so many other places to get power that removing one pulley is pretty minimal.

[watrob]

There is one way to fix this problem which everybody has forgotten about so not to loose miles per gallon, energy from batteries and cause pollution:-

Use a manual steering box

Although it would be interest to see this on a FJ

[bsmith123]

2000 psi sounds enough the rate of flow (GPM) may effect how fast you can turn the wheels though but I imagine they gave it more than enough for the OEM application so it might be adequate.

Seems like lack of sufficient flow could give you jerky operation as pressure will drop with increased flow. One test you might want to do is turning the wheel as fast as you can and see if it keeps up.

If the pump is sufficiently rugged it could be as simple as bigger lines to increase flow, up to a point I suppose.

On the electrical power if you fooled the system to max output with the switch wouldn't that give you the full draw ("the Load") on the motor. I don't know maybe 60 amps would be all right for a while just seems a lot to me if that is in fact what you would have at the max output setting. Seems like 60 amps constant could affect alt life especially add in heat, wipers, high beams, aux lights, so maybe a H/D alt would be in order. But I'm just basing that on gut feeling.

Not that any of this means it wouldn't be practical--- it's just the stuff I would think about and research before the install

Probably could do geek math and figure it out

nah just install it and see!

looking forward to seeing the posts

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by bsmith123

On the electrical power if you fooled the system to max output with the switch wouldn't that give you the full draw ("the Load") on the motor.

The only time it will draw 60 amps is when it is at 0 rpms. If I am not turning the wheel there is minimal load on the pump because it is only pushing around fluid. The most I expect the load to go up to is maybe 30 amps once in a blue moon. Look at one of my previous posts about amp load on DC brush motors. 60 amps is only the draw at 0 rpms.

Hmm I am thinking I could figure out the GPH by seeing how fast it pumps a gallon through it on the bench. That shouldn't be to hard.

[joeyg1973]

You know the EPS is just a minor piece to this FJ. I am also going to be running a Taurus fan, at some point an electric water pump, and a Megasquirt 2 Extra. The MS2extra is going to be getting crank position info from a 3FE Distributor and directly firing a ford EDIS-6 wasted spark coil. It is also going to handle fuel injection for a 4.3 TBI with dual fuel maps so that I can have an economy mode at the flick of a switch. It will also be controlling both hi and low on the Taurus fan. At some point in the future, I also want to put the eaton M62 supercharger on it from a Mercedes Benz SLK or CLK 2.3 litre as these have an AC style clutch with an air bypass so that you can turn the supercharger on and off.

So the EPS is just a small part of this project. *insert geeky nerdy smiley here*

[Advent]

How are you planning to fit a taurus fan with the 2F?

What electric water pump are you planning to use?

[Pighead]

Wow. You think big.
I'd be interested in an electrical power steering pump just so I could go back to my big old-fashioned air cleaner...neither of the pump mounts I've tried allow me to use it. I've got plenty of electricity (140 amps) under the hood, so I'm leaning towards electrical OBA instead of a York. And with an electrical water pump, you would lose the stock water pump and then have plenty of room in front of the 2F for a Taurus fan...

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Advent

How are you planning to fit a taurus fan with the 2F?

What electric water pump are you planning to use?

I haven't seen anything that says it won't fit. I ran the flex-a-lite black magic 150 fan on my old 40 and it came damn close to the center post of the mechanical water pump but it cleared it. The Taurus fan is off center so I think it should clear just fine. If not I can just trim the post on on mechanical pump. Or I could just go with an electric pump. I would need to build an adapter to cover where the water pump is now and then connect it to something like this.

Davies, Craig EWP High Performance and Racing Electric Water Pump Kits

[Coolerman]

Originally Posted by Pighead

Wow. You think big.
I'd be interested in an electrical power steering pump just so I could go back to my big old-fashioned air cleaner...neither of the pump mounts I've tried allow me to use it.

Though I have yet to test this setup, I fit the mini-truck pump where the F alternator sat using the stock minitruck pump bracket with just one minor bit of welding. That then bolts to the stock alternator mount. My F air cleaner fits just fine though it's not on in the pic. IT even has an easy adjust feature.

[toddm]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

You know the EPS is just a minor piece to this FJ. I am also going to be running a Taurus fan, at some point an electric water pump, and a Megasquirt 2 Extra. The MS2extra is going to be getting crank position info from a 3FE Distributor and directly firing a ford EDIS-6 wasted spark coil. It is also going to handle fuel injection for a 4.3 TBI with dual fuel maps so that I can have an economy mode at the flick of a switch. It will also be controlling both hi and low on the Taurus fan. At some point in the future, I also want to put the eaton M62 supercharger on it from a Mercedes Benz SLK or CLK 2.3 litre as these have an AC style clutch with an air bypass so that you can turn the supercharger on and off.

So the EPS is just a small part of this project. *insert geeky nerdy smiley here*

You shouldn't need an economy switch, since its MAP based. Just tune the low load areas of the map for economy and the higher load sections for safe power.Good luck with the EH PS. I own a MR2 performance shop and have never heard of a failed EH pump. I considered going this route too but when I decided on a diesel motor with a built in pump it became irrelevant. Also some of the lexus es250's I think, have a hydraulic cooling fan on the radiator instead of an electric fan. Might try one of those too.Todd

[Pighead]

What if you just "gutted" a stock waterpump? Either pull the shaft and plug the hole, or maybe cut the shaft fore & aft of the bearing...theres your adapter, and the stock hoses fit.

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

I haven't seen anything that says it won't fit. I ran the flex-a-lite black magic 150 fan on my old 40 and it came damn close to the center post of the mechanical water pump but it cleared it. The Taurus fan is off center so I think it should clear just fine. If not I can just trim the post on on mechanical pump. Or I could just go with an electric pump. I would need to build an adapter to cover where the water pump is now and then connect it to something like this.

Davies, Craig EWP High Performance and Racing Electric Water Pump Kits

[Coolerman]

Hmmm that might actually work. I pulled an old F pump apart quite awhile ago. Here is a pic.

You remove the backing plate, press out the impeller/bearing/shaft from the front with a press, press off the impeller, cut the shaft then press the bearing back in to act as the seal. Bolt the backing plate back on and your done?

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by toddm

You shouldn't need an economy switch, since its MAP based. Just tune the low load areas of the map for economy and the higher load sections for safe power.Good luck with the EH PS. I own a MR2 performance shop and have never heard of a failed EH pump. I considered going this route too but when I decided on a diesel motor with a built in pump it became irrelevant. Also some of the lexus es250's I think, have a hydraulic cooling fan on the radiator instead of an electric fan. Might try one of those too.Todd

An MR2 performance shop ehh... happen to know the GPH of the MR2 pump?

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Pighead

What if you just "gutted" a stock waterpump? Either pull the shaft and plug the hole, or maybe cut the shaft fore & aft of the bearing...theres your adapter, and the stock hoses fit.

Dude you get an "A" for the day on that one!!

Hmmm I hope I didn't throw out the onld one I had... Be a shame to rip apart a brand new one.

[toddm]

Originally Posted by joeyg1973

An MR2 performance shop ehh... happen to know the GPH of the MR2 pump?

nope sorry, we never mod the PS! If you need a 700RWHP 2.2L Stroker PM me Todd

[Pirate]

hello,
I want to use the MR2 power steering system on my 80 FJ 40, could you let me know where I could get everything need?

Thanks, Bert

[joeyg1973]

Originally Posted by Pirate

hello,
I want to use the MR2 power steering system on my 80 FJ 40, could you let me know where I could get everything need?

Thanks, Bert

Let me work out all the kinks first. I don't want to lead anybody down the wrong path in the slight chance that this doesn't work the way I expect it. I don't want people throwing away money on this if it is a dud. It is going to be a while too. I just bought a house which I won't be closing on for 2 months and then I need to build a decent sized garage on it. I probably will have completed this in about 5-6 months from now. Be patient.

Joe

[Pirate]

Thanks Joe
I was talking today with a guy who worked for Toyota for years and he told me to go with the MR2 system. So it was funny to read your message on using the MR2.

[Pirate]

Hello, Joe

I had another conversation with my Toyota buddy and he is willing to do the MR2 power steering conversion for me, can you tell me what parts and where to buy? I am ready for poer steering and my Toyota guy is pushing to go with the MR2 over the MiniTruck, I'll post pics and let you know how it works out.

Thanks, Bert

[joeyg1973]

Pictures of the PS ECU/Relay Controller/PS Driver loom. The wires without plugs on them go to power, ground, steering sensor, VSS, and the Pump. I will put up a list of what color is what when I post the picture of the loom with the weather pack connectors on it.

[joeyg1973]

The VSS on an MR2 sent out 4 pulses per revolution. If one needed to keep the PS pump on longer you could knock it down to 3, 2, or 1 per revolution.

I need to get my VSS split into 2 signals, one for the speedo and one for the PS ECU. I am getting my VSS and wire adapter box from the guys at Speed Service. Speedometer Service of Milw providing speedometer solutions