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09-27-07, 08:21 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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Pop goes the T-case???
Driving back from band practice last night around 10:00pm. I was on the highway for about 10-15 miles, was slowing/coasting down from 65ish MPH when I head a "pop" and then I'm in neutral. Ok, well I just thought maybe she popped into nuetral. Slow down to stop at the light, when I go to take off again...let the clutch out...VROOOM no moving.
Ok, somewhat strange, try again...no engaging. Mind you I'm on a highway that people go 65-70 on and I'm stuck at the intersection at 10:00 at night. MANY semi's travel this route. So I get out, manually check the t-case, move into low range....get in...same thing VROOM with no go when I let the clutch out. Doesn't matter where I put the high/low selector (and it still feels like it's hitting each detent when I move it on the case)
I don't hear anything grinding or horrible noises but you can hear the gears in the tranny turn if you listen close enough. Thankfully I have good friends that come and rescue me in the middle of the night. THANKS! I got towed to my house and now it sits in the garage...again...
67 Fj40, 350, SM420, 3speed case
thoughts? where to go from here?
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09-27-07, 08:48 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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total rice
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bring lawyers guns & money
Posts: 3,320
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You need to look into this deeper and figure out at least which component it causing this.
If it is in fact the TC, it sounds as if it is stuck in neutral for some unknown reason. Get underneath and make sure the linkages are actually moving and if so enough to engage the part. Is anything bent, loose or missing?
When you let out the clutch is the rear DS spinning but no go? If so then it's in the rear axle. Just for conversation if you broke a rear axle shaft right near the carrier and have an open diff then it may be possible the power is going to that broken axle?? But then with a semi-floating axle you have the weight of the truck on it and one would probably see a rear tire out of camber (??) plus you had it towed (by the front I assume) so this may not be it.
You may want to drain the TC and see if the fluid looks like it has a bunch of metal in it indicating something broke inside...if you towed it by the front without removing the rear DS the TC spun all the way home. Any unusual noises?
Have you tried engaging the front hubs and seeing if it moves in 4WD? If this works it would indicate the tranny & TC are OK and it's in the rear DS or axle.
These are just some ideas. Let us know what you find out
__________________
1975 FJ40 - V8, 4WDB, Saginaw PS, SR, 4" lift w/ 33X12.50X15 BFG MTR's, M8000 ROTW
2007 4 Runner SR5 4WD - stone stock daily driver
TLCA#10793
"The advent of the internet has permitted stupid people to propagate their stupidity WAY too easily, all with a position of self-proclaimed authority preying on peoples' ignorance or stupidity. Everyone with a keyboard is an expert." UNKNOWN
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09-27-07, 09:19 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,014
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First thing I would do is pull the six bolts on the t-case cone cover and check the bolt/washer/pin that holds the gear on the sm420 output shaft. 
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09-27-07, 09:24 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 6,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanabecruisen
First thing I would do is pull the six bolts on the t-case cone cover and check the bolt/washer/pin that holds the gear on the sm420 output shaft. |
X2 or more
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09-27-07, 09:35 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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it's definitely in the t-case. Driveshaft doesn't move anymore than normal which tells me the gears/3rd member are good. I got out and moved the linkage by hand on the t-case and could feel it move into each position.
I have the AA propellor mount so this will be fun  .
Here's another thought I just had. earlier this week, twice when I backed up slowly, it's like i hit something. The driveline bound up and I stopped and couldn't go anymore...really strange.
And that gear on my t-case was a royal PITA to get on and off...had to use a puller to get that off and it was straining like crazy. I just pulled the d-train apart a few months ago to pull the engine.
no strange noises on the pull home. I would have figured a much larger noise when driving is something ugly happened.
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09-27-07, 10:56 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 6,046
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Ugh!
Sorry bro...
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09-27-07, 05:12 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: valley of the sunstroke, AZ
Posts: 3,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanabecruisen
First thing I would do is pull the six bolts on the t-case cone cover and check the bolt/washer/pin that holds the gear on the sm420 output shaft. |
thats what i was gonna say,,,
__________________
Clay
75 BDJ55- biopig
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09-28-07, 08:09 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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DING DING DING we have some winners. 
Yup, that bolt backed off and the gear was just sitting down in there. Now to fish the bolt/washer from down there. I'm honestly amazed there was no carnage when it popped off as I was doing like 50 coasting.
What is the torque spec on that bolt other than "a lot" And I assume I should loc-tite it?
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09-28-07, 08:27 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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total rice
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bring lawyers guns & money
Posts: 3,320
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Glad to hear you found it and it was a relatively uneventful deal. Please post a picture of this so I can understand more. I wouldn't know an SM420 if I tripped over it, obviously.
__________________
1975 FJ40 - V8, 4WDB, Saginaw PS, SR, 4" lift w/ 33X12.50X15 BFG MTR's, M8000 ROTW
2007 4 Runner SR5 4WD - stone stock daily driver
TLCA#10793
"The advent of the internet has permitted stupid people to propagate their stupidity WAY too easily, all with a position of self-proclaimed authority preying on peoples' ignorance or stupidity. Everyone with a keyboard is an expert." UNKNOWN
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09-28-07, 08:56 AM
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#10 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 6,518
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The torque on the half inch bolt is 90-100 ft lbs.
If you put a lock tab washer on the bolt or it won't back out.
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09-28-07, 09:08 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansastitty
Posts: 7,310
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This same thing happened to a guy in out club. Mike Costello (66FJ40X2). He climbed a long uphill of rip-rap and at the top lost all his gears. They had him fully functioning in about a couple of hours. He had just done the SM420 swap, IIRC.
Glad you are back in bidness 
Ed
__________________
My Anger-Management Class really pisses me off
'66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser... LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser... LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers, WhiteKnuckle sliders 
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09-28-07, 09:09 AM
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#12 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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Got it!  I'll go get some locktab washers and lunch and hopefully this won't happen again.
thanks!
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09-28-07, 09:22 AM
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#13 (permalink)
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250+ Club
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 802
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You have to build that washer .It should have a cold rolled pin indexed into the splines on the gear. EBI cruisers has a good write up on it.
__________________
1977 fj40 All Beat Up ... But Still going strong !
1993 80 series
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09-28-07, 10:02 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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Oh...Durka Durka Durka.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: in the shop
Posts: 16,023
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Ben man...
Could be worse:
That is what happens when the bolt backs out from just using a lock washer and locktite, and trying to be in the same place as the gears.
This is now what I make and install on any 420/465 conversion that I build:
(I do not have any more of them made, sorry.)
__________________
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09-28-07, 10:32 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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cool, I think I'll go ahead and do that....I really don't want to test my luck again with that...
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09-28-07, 12:54 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJBen
DING DING DING we have some winners.
Yup, that bolt backed off and the gear was just sitting down in there. Now to fish the bolt/washer from down there. I'm honestly amazed there was no carnage when it popped off as I was doing like 50 coasting.
What is the torque spec on that bolt other than "a lot" And I assume I should loc-tite it? |
Glad that's all it was - easy fix....this time!
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09-28-07, 01:22 PM
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#18 (permalink)
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Site Addict
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: CrAwLoRaDo
Posts: 1,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin_Head
The torque on the half inch bolt is 90-100 ft lbs.
If you put a lock tab washer on the bolt or it won't back out.
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I have had this holding that bolt in my truck for 4-5 years, no worries, one of the only things I haven't had issues with
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10-01-07, 08:32 AM
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#19 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greeley, Colorado
Posts: 2,623
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Well, got her all buttoned up, no carnage on the bolt or gears....luck me
If I could just get my vacuum-tcase to engage the front, I'd be much happier
thanks everyone for the help.
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10-01-07, 12:35 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Forum Lifer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 6,046
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Does she idle now?
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dgangle
Poser
1969 Toyota Land Cruiser, FJ-40
