Is my wheel spindle worn out?

lbrillhart · 03-10-07, 04:46 PM

I'm rebuilding my front wheels. When I went to tap the brand new inner wheel bearing onto the right spindle it just slid all the way on. There isn't much play but the race will rotate on the spindle. This is contrary to the left side which took a little force to get the new bearing on.

I'm thinking this is bad. Any cheap solutions or do I need a new spindle?

Thanks for the help!

projektdotnet · 03-10-07, 07:28 PM

PICS! seriously a good pic is worth 1000 words online

Poser · 03-10-07, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbrillhart

I'm rebuilding my front wheels. When I went to tap the brand new inner wheel bearing onto the right spindle it just slid all the way on. There isn't much play but the race will rotate on the spindle. This is contrary to the left side which took a little force to get the new bearing on.

I'm thinking this is bad. Any cheap solutions or do I need a new spindle?

Thanks for the help!

If you need a drum brake spindle you should not have a problem finding one in the WANTED section. You should not have a problem finding one.

grant5127 · 03-11-07, 07:51 AM

a procedure commonly used in the auto repair industry called "Staking" or bearing race "Stake".......has been known to save many hubs and spindle lives....

Coolerman · 03-11-07, 08:03 AM

How much slop is in the bearing when torqued to spec? Was the spindle scored where the race was? I would not worry too much if it's not scored and the play is in spec, however as was pointed out, spindles are easy to find and cheap.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:12 PM

Ok, here are a few pics. First off we're talking about a '76 FJ40 with disc brakes.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:14 PM

And here it is again. The new bearing just resting on the skinny part of the spindle. About to be "pressed" on.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:16 PM

Now I'm jiggling the bearing onto the spindle. When I get it squared up it starts to slide right on.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:18 PM

And there it is all the way on without any force. There isn't much clearance between the bearing and spindle, but if I give the rollers a good spin they go around along with the inner race.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:21 PM

And lastly a shot of the spindle. It's pretty smooth, maybe just a bit of scoring from the old bearing. I disassembled everything back in the fall so I don't remember if the old bearing fell off or not.

lbrillhart · 03-11-07, 05:24 PM

So after taking the pics and reading your responses I decided to stake the spindle. I should have taken pics of that too, but got excited and just pressed the bearing on. It took a good bit of force and snugged right up so I'm thinking it should work out.

Thanks for the help!

matt.mcinnes · 03-11-07, 05:53 PM

Question, but that bearing goes in the hub with a seal between it and the stub axle does it not, before it goes on there.

Or are you just checking the seat of the bearing to the stub axle?

You cant assemble it that way my 2c

Few photos here just remeber the inner axle oil seal was put in the wrong way around opps and the photo of the swivel hub seals are not in order they should be Metal Rubber Felt

Also there is no pic of the bearing seats been fitted into the hub.

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ley/?start=all

Also pics are not in order on Photobucket but are numbered in order start at 570 finish 624

tucker74 · 03-11-07, 08:17 PM

You kinda lost me there too - you seat the bearing races in the actual hub, grease the bearings, install a hub seal and the whole assembly with the rotor goes on the spindle with both bearings. They should slide on the spindle with very little effort, you seat them with the spindle nuts (with both installed) -

Tucker

tlcruiser66 · 03-12-07, 12:11 AM

Your doing a nice job rebuilding your axle. But I think Matt and Tucker are right, I hope you didn't press your bearing directly onto the hub.

Kevin

matt.mcinnes · 03-12-07, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlcruiser66

Your doing a nice job rebuilding your axle. But I think Matt and Tucker are right, I hope you didn't press your bearing directly onto the hub.

Kevin

I'm sure he has a bearing puller if he did, not the end of the world PM me if you need any help.

Regards Matt

lbrillhart · 03-12-07, 07:49 AM

Bearing in the hub with a seal?

It's all becoming clear now. Ok, so I'll pull the bearing I staked on, put it in the hub with the seal and then slide the hub onto the spindle.

tucker74 · 03-12-07, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbrillhart

Bearing in the hub with a seal?

It's all becoming clear now. Ok, so I'll pull the bearing I staked on, put it in the hub with the seal and then slide the hub onto the spindle.

Yep - check this link out

Tucker

pbgbottle · 03-12-07, 09:23 AM

i was wondering what everybody was talking about. i read this a few days ago .and when they mentioned looking for a new spindle ,and staking it , i was lost . i have never checked if the bearing spun on the spindle .just shoved them in the hub then the seal and shoved it back on the spindle . i was thinking i missed something . glad it's all cleared up . .

FJ40Jim · 03-12-07, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbrillhart

I'm rebuilding my front wheels. When I went to tap the brand new inner wheel bearing onto the right spindle it just slid all the way on. There isn't much play but the race will rotate on the spindle. This is contrary to the left side which took a little force to get the new bearing on.

You've now boogered the right side by staking it.

And the left side may be a little jacked up from a previous bearing failure.

The bearings both just slide onto the spindle.

FJ40fiji · 03-13-07, 12:11 AM

Well your technique turns out to be wrong, but I gotta admire that sexy looking axle all cleaned and painted. You get an A for effort!

matt.mcinnes · 03-13-07, 09:12 PM

So what news? all sorted now or do you need new spindles?

Regards Matt

mustardfj40 · 03-14-07, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant5127

a procedure commonly used in the auto repair industry called "Staking" or bearing race "Stake".......has been known to save many hubs and spindle lives....

What's the procedure? Thx.

lbrillhart · 03-14-07, 12:00 PM

Well I've been trying to make more progress before updating the thread, but ran into another snag.

So first off, I pulled the inner hub bearing off the spindle. Then I used a bit of emery cloth to take down the burrs from my errant staking. Once the bearing would slide over the spindle nicely again I put the bearing in the hub where it belongs and tapped in the seal. Hopefully no real harm done. I guess I'll find out some day down the road.

But here's where my new troubles start again: When I slid the hub all the way on I get a lot of friction. So much that even when the bearings are under no pressure from the spindle nut, I can barely turn the hub with my hands. Forget about 5-10 inch pounds or whatever the spec is.

I suspected the problem was in the large dust seal that rides on the outside of the hub. Specter calls it the FAX retainer. So I removed the retainer and then tried the hub again. Much better. Even with the bearings under a good bit of load from the spindle nut the hub spins nice and smooth.

I more closely examined the brand new, but aftermarket retainer and it appears as though the rubber seal part wasn't adhered to the metal ring evenly. I just got back from the Toyota dealer with OEM parts. Hopefully those will work better.

Pics after I mess with it again tonight.

FJ40Jim · 03-14-07, 12:08 PM

Don't forget to fill the lip of the seal w/ grease and put a little synth oil on the hub. That will remove almost all the seal "sticktion" from the equation, allowing you to feel the wheel bearing preload more accurately.

matt.mcinnes · 03-14-07, 03:01 PM

When it comes to seals and gaskets, genuine are always the way to go they fit much better I find, the difference in cost usually is not that great either.

My 2c

lbrillhart · 03-15-07, 08:07 AM

So it was a successful night, until you guys tell me I screwed up again. Pulled the aftermarket retainer/dust seal and replaced it with a nice shiny OEM version. Big difference. It actually fits and with an expected amount of stiction.

Here's a pic of the two retainers. The one on the left is aftermarket. A little hard to see, but the rubber seal material is all over the place on the aftermarket and the ring isn't aligned. Where as the OEM is nice and clean, plus the oem is a taller seal so it makes a little more contact.

The lesson as preached by many, use OEM gaskets and seals.

matt.mcinnes · 03-15-07, 08:14 AM

Good to see you back on track hope the photos helped

Regards matt

lbrillhart · 03-15-07, 08:22 AM

So after finishing the right hub I went back to the left side and pulled it all apart again to put in the seal on the inner bearing. I'm not sure why I thought I needed to tap the left side bearing on in the first place. It slid on and off just like the right. Sure it's got to be squared up to slide on, but it goes. With all my new found experience it only took 1hr. So now I'm calling it - my front end is done.

matt.mcinnes · 03-15-07, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbrillhart

So after finishing the right hub I went back to the left side and pulled it all apart again to put in the seal on the inner bearing. I'm not sure why I thought I needed to tap the left side bearing on in the first place. It slid on and off just like the right. Sure it's got to be squared up to slide on, but it goes. With all my new found experience it only took 1hr. So now I'm calling it - my front end is done.

That mighty bling

all's well that ends well.

Whats next?

lbrillhart · 03-15-07, 08:56 AM

Hey thanks Matt. I really appreciate all the help you and everyone else have given.

What's next? This old thing. It's been apart even longer than the front end so be looking out for my next thread "What's an idler shaft?"

Thanks!