['74 UA FJ]

Guys, tell me if my thinking is correct on this.

I plan on tearing my orion down and visually checking for wear on any areas that might be forcing it out of gear, then machining that area down a little bit to relieve the interference. How does that sound?

[Poser]

No I do not agree with your thinking on this.



You have not posted up answers to other questions concerning your issue from previous posts just a few days ago.


Further,

Do you have a back cut high speed gear currently in your case?

Did you install a new main shaft or reuse your old one?

Did you install a new shift collar or reuse your old one?

How did you measure your clearance between the thrust washer, high and low speed gears?

What is the condition of your engine mounts?

Are the bolts tight through the mounting brackets for the engine mounts?

Are the bolts tight that mount the brackets to the engine and rest of the drive line?

What style transfer case mount are you using with your V8 conversion?

Are those fasteners tight?

Are you running a shifter boot on the transfer case lever?

Have you removed that boot and watched the lever when it pops out of gear?

Have you remove the shift linkage from the equation and shifted the transfer case into low range? What was the result?

[Degnol]

DAYUM! That's a lot of homework!!!!

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by Poser

No I do not agree with your thinking on this.



You have not posted up answers to other questions concerning your issue from previous posts just a few days ago.


Further,

Do you have a back cut high speed gear currently in your case? Yes.

Did you install a new main shaft or reuse your old one? New

Did you install a new shift collar or reuse your old one? New

How did you measure your clearance between the thrust washer, high and low speed gears? Feeler gauge, iirc.

What is the condition of your engine mounts? Perfect. 350 w/ mark's of australia adapter.

Are the bolts tight through the mounting brackets for the engine mounts? Yes.

Are the bolts tight that mount the brackets to the engine and rest of the drive line? Yes.

What style transfer case mount are you using with your V8 conversion? Bolted to original h42 trans.

Are those fasteners tight? Yes

Are you running a shifter boot on the transfer case lever? Yes, it's worn out and offers zero resistance to lever movement.

Have you removed that boot and watched the lever when it pops out of gear? Yes, the lever simply pops into the neutral position.

Have you remove the shift linkage from the equation and shifted the transfer case into low range? What was the result? No I haven't. I work all day and didn't get a chance yesterday evening. I will try that asap, but as I said, I am 99.9% sure the linkage is not the issue here.

Answers are in red. It seems that it is getting easier to pop out of low with increasing miles on the case. Right after I built it, it would only pop out of low with the trans in 1st gear on steep downhills under engine braking in 4wd. Then it popped out with the trans in 2nd gear. Then 3rd gear. Now 4th gear and even when I am in 2wd low.

[calstyl2]

Called AA for advice?

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by calstyl2

Called AA for advice?

I called them long ago. Guy(don't have his name) told me he'd get back to me. He never did. The issue slipped to the back burner as I had a lot of other things going on at the time. Basically, they don't know what the problem is since they thought the "new" backcut gear and new parts would fix the issue.

I should have gone with a rockbox and rebuilt my stock case.

[trona]

Last time i was in there I noticed that it was taking a lot of shims to obtain preload this caused the output shaft to be quite forward. I am not sure if my front nose cone was worn or stretched but the end result was that the shift collar had less purchase on the high speed gear. I ended up placing at least half the shims in front of the front bearing race bringing the output shaft back for better purchase. Just some thoughts

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

I called them long ago. Guy(don't have his name) told me he'd get back to me. He never did. The issue slipped to the back burner as I had a lot of other things going on at the time. Basically, they don't know what the problem is since they thought the "new" backcut gear and new parts would fix the issue.

I should have gone with a rockbox and rebuilt my stock case.

talk to vic or mathew at aa, they will handle the issue properly.

the rokbox had issues with the inputs breaking and has been shelfed due to low sales......

i bet your fork is worn quite a bit.

georg

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by trona

Last time i was in there I noticed that it was taking a lot of shims to obtain preload this caused the output shaft to be quite forward. I am not sure if my front nose cone was worn or stretched but the end result was that the shift collar had less purchase on the high speed gear. I ended up placing at least half the shims in front of the front bearing race bringing the output shaft back for better purchase. Just some thoughts

i've had to do the smae thing a couple of times and should have mentioned it earlier.
it's important to check that the bearing race in the nose cone fits snug and the previous race did not spin in the cone. otherwise the new cone can and will "float" in the nose cone which obviously can cause issues......

[peesalot]

I think the issue Trona has shared is the exact thing that needs to be fiddled with in my case (#100)

[D'Animal]

And it pops out

Originally Posted by orangefj45

this will be delivered to you on saturday dan. orion #264 freshly converted to orion HD #52

I already spoke to Mathew at AA and OrangeFJ45 today.

[orangefj45]

well, that's frustrating to say the least......

did you try running it with the linkage dis-connected to start the "process of elimination"?

i was beyond anal when building that case so i seriously hope that it's not an internal issue, especially since it's poping ut of high.

georg

[D'Animal]

I removed all the linkage.

I think (hope) that the detent is so strong that I'm not getting it all the way in HI and that is the reason it is not staying in. I had to walk away from it last night before I got the big hammer out. I have plenty of other things to do on the rig. I will take a look at it again this morning.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

I removed all the linkage.

I think (hope) that the detent is so strong that I'm not getting it all the way in HI and that is the reason it is not staying in. I had to walk away from it last night before I got the big hammer out. I have plenty of other things to do on the rig. I will take a look at it again this morning.

It's scary when you start listening to me

[D'Animal]

Originally Posted by Mace

It's scary when you start listening to me

LOL!

Thanks again for the advice.

[D'Animal]

This was the problem.

Originally Posted by D'Animal

I removed all the linkage.

I think (hope) that the detent is so strong that I'm not getting it all the way in HI and that is the reason it is not staying in.

I grabbed the shifter with a big pair of channel locks and snapped it in HI. Works fine and stays in.

With the linckage connected, the "Low / Hi" lever bound up. The swivel joints do not allow the proper travel and it was not fully in HI. That is the reason it kept popping out.

The twin stick shifter bracket is on upside down. It is on correctly acording to the directions though! LOL

['74 UA FJ]

So where can I get a much stronger spring for the detent?

[D'Animal]

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

So where can I get a much stronger spring for the detent?

Call mathew at Advance Adaptors.

It was an upgrade to my 1st orion. (#318)

[Poser]

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

So where can I get a much stronger spring for the detent?

Case #408, correct?


You should already have it. Brass machined nut for the shift fork, heavier spring and new detent ball.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

This was the problem.




I grabbed the shifter with a big pair of channel locks and snapped it in HI. Works fine and stays in.

With the linckage connected, the "Low / Hi" lever bound up. The swivel joints do not allow the proper travel and it was not fully in HI. That is the reason it kept popping out.

The twin stick shifter bracket is on upside down. It is on correctly acording to the directions though! LOL

Glad you figured it out Dan.




I always suspect linkage/engine mount/shifter hole/boot issues before pointing at the transfer case.


Amazing how many times it has come up that way.

[D'Animal]

My problem and documented fix starts on post # 1388 here,

http://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-cor...ml#post4743941

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by Poser

Case #408, correct?


You should already have it. Brass machined nut for the shift fork, heavier spring and new detent ball.

Yes. I have all of that.

I am wheeling this weekend. I will disconnect the linkage and see what results.

[petescoffee]

Originally Posted by D'Animal

This was the problem.




I grabbed the shifter with a big pair of channel locks and snapped it in HI. Works fine and stays in.

With the linckage connected, the "Low / Hi" lever bound up. The swivel joints do not allow the proper travel and it was not fully in HI. That is the reason it kept popping out.

The twin stick shifter bracket is on upside down. It is on correctly acording to the directions though! LOL

Dan,
Good to here. So far so good on my HD as well. FYI If you use teh twin stick boot that they sent with the kit you will need to cut the metal ring in half and make it bigger. There is to much through on the land cruiser twin stick to work with the little twin stick boot. I messed mine up pretty good and purchased a bigger one from some where on the net. Probably get one froma tractor supply store.
Dave

['74 UA FJ]

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

Yes. I have all of that.

I am wheeling this weekend. I will disconnect the linkage and see what results.

Disconnecting the linkage has no effect on it popping out of gear. The linkage engages the case fully, and doesn't bind anywhere.

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by petescoffee

Dan,
Good to here. So far so good on my HD as well. FYI If you use teh twin stick boot that they sent with the kit you will need to cut the metal ring in half and make it bigger. There is to much through on the land cruiser twin stick to work with the little twin stick boot. I messed mine up pretty good and purchased a bigger one from some where on the net. Probably get one froma tractor supply store.
Dave

that all depends o nthe distance between the shift pivot bolt for the twin-sticks and the trans tunnel. there are many variables likt different engine and trans combinations, body lift, rear x-member and others to be taken into consideration.
but when all is said and done, you're better off running either two seperate boots or a larger boot like you mentioned to eliminate any possibility opf the boot "pulling" the lever back towards the center of it's travel.

georg

[hatfieldcb]

Continuing with the saga of my dropped thrust washer and broken gear teeth, take a look at these idler gear thrust washers. Yikes! I'm going to call AA and see if they'll send me some more. Or maybe Toyota.

[peesalot]

So it appears that 74 UA FJ did not have a linkage issue

[vtcruiser60]

Esterized ORION 4:1, #2444 installed.

IPOR skidplate with stock PTO visible.

For more info...here is the build thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/ma-nh-yankee...d-much-do.html

[65swb45]

While I'm not certain that I have the MOST road miles on an Orion, I've sure clocked several thousand on mine with trips to Rubicon, Dusy and Katemcy over the last few years. The detents in mine were SO STRONG that my dash-mount linkage was rendered basically useless. Art Banks helped me brace the face of my dashboard to my firewall, but the linkage is still not strong enough to shift the transfer case. Since it never popped out of gear, I left well enough alone. I shift it with a pair of channellocks at the bellhousing bellcrank.

On the drive up to SNT, the t-case popped out of gear FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER. I'd never heard of a 2-hi issue with the Orion, and as soon as I'd pulled over to find out why I was in neutral, of course I wasn't any more. I made the rest of the drive up uneventfully, but had more problems with it on Saturday. As fate would have it, Matthew from AA was manning Checkpoint 4 with me, so he got an earful. By the time I hit Grand Ave on Sunday, it was all over. Couldn't go a single block without it popping. I ended up putting a motorcycle tiedown from the linkage to my skidplate to hold the lever as tight as possible for the drive home. FWIW, the amount of movement achieved with the motorcycle tiedown was less than 1/16th of an inch.

I have not had time to pull the t-case out to confirm my suspicions, but I suspect that the same forces that caused AA to impliment the inboarded detents and heavier springs have been pushing my brand new hi-low shift collar back HARD against the shift fork long enough to wear the slot out in the collar. If this is true, you can count on it being a reoccuring problem for EVERY Orion as the road miles add up.

Interestingly enough, Matthew shared with me his opinion that a shift collar that had INTERNAL detents would theoretically hold onto the gear better than a smooth one. Since I may well have a USED collar that fits that description, I would consider installing it. What say ye?

[orangefj45]

if i were a betting man, i'd say that the fork is worn, not the collar.