2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40 - Page 5

stumpy · 03-27-07, 10:10 AM

those prices ARE rediculous. i am going to check around and see if something more like the wolf price can be had in the states. while megasquirt looks like a great solution, the motec seems much more capable.

have you ever found a good list of all the sensors and components you would need to get either of those systems working? i havent read everything cover to cover yet, but i havent seen anything about whose throttle body to use, what MAP sensor, etc...

megasquirt is all GM from what i can tell, is that easy to get in OZ?

matt.mcinnes · 03-27-07, 12:15 PM

Most of the sensors will be Bosch

Check the MotorSport Products

http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/default.htm

The Throtle body will come from the 3F-E but without the Air Flow Meter, that will not be used just a MAP sensor, Knock Sensor and a few others I have yet to fathom

Looks like the Autronic is the way I will be going as it has come highly recomended from here.

http://www.ontrack4x4.net.au/

This is all very new to me so forgive the lack of detialed info at this time, but it will come as I learn

stumpy · 03-27-07, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

The Throtle body will come from the 3F-E but without the Air Flow Meter, that will not be used just a MAP sensor, Knock Sensor and a few others I have yet to fathom

i am still trying to figure all of this out myself. how are you going to get it to work without a throttle position sensor? does a MAP negate the need for a TPS?

with one of the programmable spark maps, do you need a knock sensor? i would think that, if you are going to go with a user-programmable unit, you would just tune to knock for each rpm and then back off a few degrees, no?

matt.mcinnes · 03-27-07, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

i am still trying to figure all of this out myself. how are you going to get it to work without a throttle position sensor? does a MAP negate the need for a TPS?

with one of the programmable spark maps, do you need a knock sensor? i would think that, if you are going to go with a user-programmable unit, you would just tune to knock for each rpm and then back off a few degrees, no?

Their is a throttle position sensor on the 3F-E injection maifolds throttle body, I will be using that one.

From what I understand so far the knock sensor is most important to stop detonation happening.

M.A.P negates the need for an air flow meter though you can have both to control emissions even better I belive, but don't quote me their. But from what I understand the air flow meter only hinders air flow into the engine. Below you can see why, later Bosch AFM are better I belive but still unnessercery.

stumpy · 03-27-07, 06:54 PM

yeah, everything i have seen says MAP is better. less restrictive and more accurate than an AFM.

about the TPS, i wasnt clear. have you figured out how to get the right signal out of the toyota TPS? that would certainly solve some fabrication issues trying to get a GM TPS/throttle body onto the 3FE manifold. does autronic allow you to calibrate a TPS based on the sender signal, or does it expect a specific signal pattern?

matt.mcinnes · 03-27-07, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

yeah, everything i have seen says MAP is better. less restrictive and more accurate than an AFM.

about the TPS, i wasnt clear. have you figured out how to get the right signal out of the toyota TPS? that would certainly solve some fabrication issues trying to get a GM TPS/throttle body onto the 3FE manifold. does autronic allow you to calibrate a TPS based on the sender signal, or does it expect a specific signal pattern?

The word from the horses mouth at Autronic is not an issue TPS will be fine on the 3F-E even for my dinosaur. and I guess most other ECU's are the same.

You do however need a custom made distibutor to take a timing signal from, though this is nothing too difficult.

matt.mcinnes · 03-28-07, 03:34 AM

So where are we up to

Heads ready.
Custom con rods are on the drawing board.
All but the cold start injector gasket and the Idle speed control gasket are in, those two were ex Japan and are due in around the 4th of April.
Injectors are ordered and up to 3 weeks, once these and the EFI gaskets are in I'll re-assemble the EFI unit and re cal the TPS to FSM specs.

New thermostat and and rubber gasket to pick up this week.

Pretty much at the point now where everything will slow down a little as the parts for the block come in con rods, JE pistons, the cradle for the crank, custom head gasket and new head bolts.

That will take a couple of months, then the block will come out and all the parts will be assembled along with the work required to it.

From there the 2F-E will go back in and be trailered to have the ECU fitted and set up.

The good news here is my ceramic coated extractors will bolt stright back up for now.

I will have the truck dyno'd at his point and see what we have.
Once the ECU is setteled and everything is running smooth and the bank account once again restored the Turbo will be added and the ECU re programed.

Mace · 03-28-07, 09:34 AM

What signal do you need from a custom dizzy??

matt.mcinnes · 03-28-07, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

What signal do you need from a custom dizzy??

Some sort of toothed wheel, so most likley a hall sensor from what I can gather, the ignition will come via coil packs not the dizzy that will just become a timing point from what I see.

Hope that makes sense

If you were to remain with the Dizzy set up I guess you may be able to use the 3F-E dizzy in the 2F motor and stick with the 3F-E ECU but this is not a suitable ECU for TurboCharging.

Mace · 03-28-07, 09:56 AM

No you are correct.. so you are gonna use the dizzy as a signal generator..

Not a bad idea at all considering you cannot just pull the dizzy (oil pump has to be run somehow..)

Make it sealed, there is no reason to vent a dizzy that is not creating a spark...

Also, remember that most signal generators are based off the crank, so a generator based off the dizzy needs to have twice the number of teeth for a single revolution..

Mark W · 03-28-07, 12:37 PM

The 3FE distributor should work pretty well for adaptation to another system. It's already sealed and waterproof and it has a multi-toothed trigger already (far more than six like you may expect, but I've never counted).

Mark...

matt.mcinnes · 03-28-07, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

Make it sealed, there is no reason to vent a dizzy that is not creating a spark...

Yep already thinking about that and the best way to achive it.

matt.mcinnes · 03-28-07, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W

The 3FE distributor should work pretty well for adaptation to another system. It's already sealed and waterproof and it has a multi-toothed trigger already (far more than six like you may expect, but I've never counted).

Mark...

I'll have a look at the one on the 3F-E in the morning when I get home from work, I have not really paid any attention to that one,

matt.mcinnes · 04-12-07, 04:57 PM

Well the gaskets finaly came from Japan only took 8 weeks

But I have to admit I was a little

when I was told the manifold gasket which had arrived 4 weeks ago had been sold yesterday. I had not picked it up as I thought I would wait on all the Gaskets arriving.

Paid in advance too. Few choice words with the General manager and one is been expressed from Japan and will be here today by 2pm. Just over 20 hours. Genuine gaskets too.

Also picked up for a $100Aus a 2F block for the engine builder to work out the measurements for the strenthening of the crank, rather than having to pull mine out and have it off the road longer.

matt.mcinnes · 04-13-07, 02:54 AM

Here are the graphs for the port and polish and the new valves before and after.

The Cam we will be using gives around .5ins lift

Intake

Exhaust

matt.mcinnes · 04-16-07, 08:42 PM

Ok heads all done and graphs are in.

Now on with the Con Rods, these are been custom made by my engine builder.

Is anyone else interested in set, if so speak up.

stumpy · 04-17-07, 10:29 AM

what is your plan on the rods? stronger, lighter, LONGER?

how much do you think they will cost you?

matt.mcinnes · 04-17-07, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

what is your plan on the rods? stronger, lighter, LONGER?

how much do you think they will cost you?

Stronger yes lighter yes, LONGER would give us more torque and has been discussed but this will be left to the engine builder to make the decision, also I guess it depends on how the drop forged JE Pistons sit.

You looking for a set for your engine too?

matt.mcinnes · 04-17-07, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W

The 3FE distributor should work pretty well for adaptation to another system. It's already sealed and waterproof and it has a multi-toothed trigger already (far more than six like you may expect, but I've never counted).

Mark...

Well finally got round to pulling the Dizzy off the 3F-E. The consturction at the top is very different, but the question is will it fit into a 2F???

It seems to have the nessercery timing points required but again are these suitable for a programable ECU?

Their seem to be 2 timming points the bottom toothed wheel which has 24 teeth, that makes sence to me for a 6 cylinder engine as each cylinder has four cycles (Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow) 6x4=24

The top wheel has only two timming points, that I would guess at been TDC for 1 & 6

Also from drawings and manuals the 3FE I have in my hand has the drive gear on the other way up to the 2F Dizzy

Need to make a few calls see if I can find a 2F Dizzy to compare it too side by side.

marin · 04-19-07, 11:05 PM

hurry up with the dizzy, i wanna drive this thing at vic winch!!

marin

matt.mcinnes · 04-20-07, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marin

hurry up with the dizzy, i wanna drive this thing at vic winch!!

marin

Hope your saving for your tyres, till then back in your box NAVI. Oh no I'm the NAVI this year

matt.mcinnes · 04-20-07, 02:51 AM

My youngest daughter insists on her pic been on here

with our 40

Now today I picked up an early 2F dizzy maybe some one can tell me the year, but at first glance side by side I recon the 3F-E dizzy will bolt stright in although it looks quite different.

Mark W · 04-20-07, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt.mcinnes

Stronger yes lighter yes, LONGER would give us more torque and has been discussed but this will be left to the engine builder to make the decision, also I guess it depends on how the drop forged JE Pistons sit.

You looking for a set for your engine too?

Off the top of my head, if you use a piston with the same pin-piston face relationship as the 3F, that will allow you to use a longer rod than a 2F piston pin-piston face relationship will.

Rod bolts are going to the most important factor in improving the factory rods.

You don't expect you will be able to loose much weight unless you use lighter material (AL). It is not an overly fat rod.

Mark...

03-27-07, 10:10 AM	#121
stumpy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: salt lake city Posts: 319	those prices ARE rediculous. i am going to check around and see if something more like the wolf price can be had in the states. while megasquirt looks like a great solution, the motec seems much more capable. have you ever found a good list of all the sensors and components you would need to get either of those systems working? i havent read everything cover to cover yet, but i havent seen anything about whose throttle body to use, what MAP sensor, etc... megasquirt is all GM from what i can tell, is that easy to get in OZ? __________________ when your day just doesnt go quite as planned... www.machinegunarmory.com

03-27-07, 12:15 PM	#122
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	Most of the sensors will be Bosch Check the MotorSport Products http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/default.htm The Throtle body will come from the 3F-E but without the Air Flow Meter, that will not be used just a MAP sensor, Knock Sensor and a few others I have yet to fathom Looks like the Autronic is the way I will be going as it has come highly recomended from here. http://www.ontrack4x4.net.au/ This is all very new to me so forgive the lack of detialed info at this time, but it will come as I learn __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space

03-27-07, 06:54 PM	#125
stumpy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: salt lake city Posts: 319	yeah, everything i have seen says MAP is better. less restrictive and more accurate than an AFM. about the TPS, i wasnt clear. have you figured out how to get the right signal out of the toyota TPS? that would certainly solve some fabrication issues trying to get a GM TPS/throttle body onto the 3FE manifold. does autronic allow you to calibrate a TPS based on the sender signal, or does it expect a specific signal pattern? __________________ when your day just doesnt go quite as planned... www.machinegunarmory.com

03-28-07, 03:34 AM	#127
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	So where are we up to Heads ready. Custom con rods are on the drawing board. All but the cold start injector gasket and the Idle speed control gasket are in, those two were ex Japan and are due in around the 4th of April. Injectors are ordered and up to 3 weeks, once these and the EFI gaskets are in I'll re-assemble the EFI unit and re cal the TPS to FSM specs. New thermostat and and rubber gasket to pick up this week. Pretty much at the point now where everything will slow down a little as the parts for the block come in con rods, JE pistons, the cradle for the crank, custom head gasket and new head bolts. That will take a couple of months, then the block will come out and all the parts will be assembled along with the work required to it. From there the 2F-E will go back in and be trailered to have the ECU fitted and set up. The good news here is my ceramic coated extractors will bolt stright back up for now. I will have the truck dyno'd at his point and see what we have. Once the ECU is setteled and everything is running smooth and the bank account once again restored the Turbo will be added and the ECU re programed. __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space Last edited by matt.mcinnes; 03-28-07 at 06:46 AM.

03-28-07, 09:34 AM	#128
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 11,191	What signal do you need from a custom dizzy?? __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-28-07, 09:56 AM	#130
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 11,191	No you are correct.. so you are gonna use the dizzy as a signal generator.. Not a bad idea at all considering you cannot just pull the dizzy (oil pump has to be run somehow..) Make it sealed, there is no reason to vent a dizzy that is not creating a spark... Also, remember that most signal generators are based off the crank, so a generator based off the dizzy needs to have twice the number of teeth for a single revolution.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

03-28-07, 12:37 PM	#131
Mark W IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Greatland TLCA# 6303 Posts: 3,525	The 3FE distributor should work pretty well for adaptation to another system. It's already sealed and waterproof and it has a multi-toothed trigger already (far more than six like you may expect, but I've never counted). Mark...

04-12-07, 04:57 PM	#134
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	Well the gaskets finaly came from Japan only took 8 weeks But I have to admit I was a little when I was told the manifold gasket which had arrived 4 weeks ago had been sold yesterday. I had not picked it up as I thought I would wait on all the Gaskets arriving. Paid in advance too. Few choice words with the General manager and one is been expressed from Japan and will be here today by 2pm. Just over 20 hours. Genuine gaskets too. Also picked up for a $100Aus a 2F block for the engine builder to work out the measurements for the strenthening of the crank, rather than having to pull mine out and have it off the road longer. __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space

04-13-07, 02:54 AM	#135
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	Here are the graphs for the port and polish and the new valves before and after. The Cam we will be using gives around .5ins lift Intake Exhaust __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space

04-16-07, 08:42 PM	#136
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	Ok heads all done and graphs are in. Now on with the Con Rods, these are been custom made by my engine builder. Is anyone else interested in set, if so speak up. __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space

04-17-07, 10:29 AM	#137
stumpy IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: salt lake city Posts: 319	what is your plan on the rods? stronger, lighter, LONGER? how much do you think they will cost you? __________________ when your day just doesnt go quite as planned... www.machinegunarmory.com

04-19-07, 11:05 PM	#140
marin IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15	hurry up with the dizzy, i wanna drive this thing at vic winch!! marin

04-20-07, 02:51 AM	#142
matt.mcinnes LIFER with a 2F-ETI Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,834	My youngest daughter insists on her pic been on here with our 40 Now today I picked up an early 2F dizzy maybe some one can tell me the year, but at first glance side by side I recon the 3F-E dizzy will bolt stright in although it looks quite different. __________________ If the wife's not complaining your not spending enought time with your 40! 2F+3FE+T+I-3F=2F-ETI THE MULE @ 400hp max Est @ 15PSI DYNO'd at 8PSI 155kw/208hp and 650Nm/480ftlb @ the RW Links Sponsored by OZZIEWEBHOSTING Mac's Space Last edited by matt.mcinnes; 04-20-07 at 03:04 AM.