Which Tub is best? (FAQ)

[SLOonTheGo]

I think what mountain cruiser is trying to say is that in comparison the new aluminum tub due to its increased thickness is just as if not stronger. The main thing to worry about using aluminum is changes due to temperature. Al is has a much stronger reaction to changes in temperature than steel. Assuming that the tub is made of 5052 Al it has a modulus of Elasticity of roughly 10thousand Ksi. This is rather hard, but compare that to steel which is at roughly 2900ksi depending on what you choose. Now stress and strain within the material varies "linearly" for a portion of loading. It is possible to have something made of aluminum be just as strong as something from steel if the changes in dimensions are adequite. Either way though it comes down to the fact that it is a cruiser. It's meant to be beat on and the tub comes down to your choice. Will the aluminum stand up to a beating. Yes, it will. It's all arguing a deaf point here folks. In terms of strength and durability both steel and Al tubs are going to last you quite a while. Its preference after that.


If my cruiser were in worse shape rust wise I would go for the Al tub. But, thats me and mine is by no means going to be a show rig.

[LukeO]

TLC is using aluminium tubs on their Icons which is something to consider. I'm sure Johnathan chose Aluminum for a good reason and the Icons are built in SoCal where rust is not really an issue.

Of course I've never gotten around to asking where they get their steel body parts from for their restorations. Or if I did, I forgot.

I had been unable to decide between aluminum and steel tubs too when I get around to rebuilding my 72 FJ40 (which I had planned to restart this spring). However my wife being pregnant with quadruplets decided I'll be using the original tub, as is, unless I want to have to wait another 20 years (it's been sitting for almost 10 now).

[FJ40Jim]

I would like to know how that the aluminium is 3x stronger then steel?

it's generally accepted that AL is stronger than steel, by weight. The actual strength factor varies w/ different types.

Aqualu tubs are made from 5052 aluminium which is gummy prone to stress cracking and corrosion.

They us ALclad marine grade aluminum, which is finished w/ a layer of pure aluminum, which is corrosion resistant in an ocean environment.

I've been thinking over this same problem myself, and found my answer after the first time it froze up after I bought my 77 FJ40, its so light in the a** end that losing any weight due to an aluminium tub would just make things worse,

The AL tub weighs the same or more than the OE steel tub. Aluminum is less dense than steel, but there is a lot more (by volume) of it in the aqualu tub.

as for rust they don’t even salt the roads here any more they're using a liquid de-icer that "shouldn’t" cause rust.

I'd like to see some 3rd party documentation of that. Around here it's a potassium chloride solution, which is still corrosive.

Well it seems like AL is the way to go yet again (in my location) Thanks a lot. I will look into that poor walley guy too rabid. Also I have read about warping with the AL tubs...... what is that?

The warping is "generally" caused from the welding when they build the tub, easiest way to see it is look down the side of an alu. tub it will have a waving look to the metal, thats the warping caused from welding.

IME, it is a minor or nonexistent problem. No worse than the bobbles on the side of a spotwelded tub, neither of which is objectionable in a utility vehicle, IMO.

[canadaman5155]

Well I have now heard about steel, AL, and glass, heres what I got from it: (i might have left some things out)

Steel:
First of.... its steel! strong stuff
O.M.E. tub material
flex line
no warping
no heat temp changes to deal with
fits great

but.......
it RUSTS
Expensive
The place its sold is not near me

Glass:
Light
Cheapest of two
Gozzards are marine grade and strong
fits good
doesn't RUST
the vendor is in Canada

but.......
Its not metal
If you get hit..... it breakes off
not as strong
can't weld onto it
cracking happens
May be too light

AL:
Strong tubs
A good fit in some cases
kind of weldable
DOESN'T RUST
Marine grade
cheaper than steel
Strong
Seems like it has a good rep.
The vendor is in canada
comes with a nice little video

But.....
It warps (kind of)
you get a box crowl
not to flexy
wierd temp. changing side effects (if i read right)
bad fit in some cases

So I am puzzled, I wont go with glass (can't bring myself to do it) So steel and AL are the two i have to decide on. It's a hard choice but I am leaning towards the AL because I will never ever have to deal with the rust again, tub wise. Although it does have some flaws. But steel is just too rust friendly and expensive. But i'm still deciding. Please keep your comments up, I like to hear what everyone has to say about the subject, i'm learning a lot and it's helping me make my decision.

I use to mine up and over in the northwest territories and in Alberta but now I am still deciding if i should move back with my family to Ontario or go back to Alberta. I'm currently located in Manitoba.

thanks guys

[steverb]

I've had my al tub for about 12 year now and its still like new. I've had to weld 1 seem and that's it. That's with a lot of wheeling. I am not easy on truck it get a good beating. I recommend to under coat the bottom and rhino coat the inside to eliminate some road noise and also help with insolating. I give al 2 thumbs up.

[jm599]

I also have aqualu fj45 tub and bed and agree with the incredible strength.

I watched a line drive baseball strike it in mid panel....no dent.
I also saw an aqualu CJ that had rolled in MOAB with minimal damage. to even the windshield frame.

the MIG welded seams do stand out with glossy paint, so plan on spending some time working on them or use low gloss paint. no biggy.

aluminum can corrode, so use heavy undercoating on the underside and stainless hardware.

[Johnnymiz]

well, i have an aluminum tub and it's great
dont mind the boxy trans hump
8 degrees f here this morning and it didn't shrink
no rust
no cracks

[78Crusher]

If you think the glass tub is light
Go pick up a glass truck cap and then pick up a al truck cap.

I have had my Aqualu tub for ten years now and had no problems what so ever.

Just my .02

[gladly]

I think that the cold shrinkage is a non issue. we get real cold (-40 and colder) up here, and the tub has been on for at least ten years with no issues

[SLOonTheGo]

Sorry about the temp explanation I should have been more clear. All metals react and change size dependant on temperature. Even though Al is more reactive to temp change it wont be noticable in the tub. By eye you won't be able to tell. The temperature change would have to be rather drastic as well in order to get a noticable change. All my metal experiances come from my structural analysis classes and the changes in length from temperature were always done with an added load onto the material and it still deflected less than a quarter inch. Most of which is from loading. So, in other words an Al tub is just fine in most any temperature range. Unless you plan on hanging about a 3 tons off your tub at a single point.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by gladly

my truck came with aqualu tub, it has taken some hits that steel would have creased at. it is way thicker and stronger than the stock thickness steel. wally's tubs may be a different story, though.
where in canada are you? in the west, maybe the recurrance of corrosion might not be a huge concern, I'm from nova scotia originally, and replacing steel with steel is a delaying tactic.
if I was going to pay 3000 for a tub, be it steel, AL or composite, I'd want to make sure I wasn't going to pay it twice... which negates the steel!
if gozzard is close/easy for you, don't even think twice, folks that nay say are thinking of cheap 'glass tubs, gozzard are way tougher, marine hull grade, and formed more accurately to the factory contours.

It's not really that the Malottes aren't strong. I think they are also Marine grade glass, at least on the exterior. The molding just sucks. Mike Gozzard actually forms all the factory contours of the tub, so it closely resembles the form of the original steel tub. He also puts a lot more time into reinforcement. With the Malotte, you're looking at cutting all your own holes in the firewall/dash, bracing your door posts if you use hard doors, etc. The Gozzard's are fawkin' nice. When I destroy mine, I hope to purchase a Gozzard.

[wckgitcrazy]

I installed an aqualu tub/fenders/running boards about 7 years ago, and immediately had the whole cruiser painted. I think compared to the steel tubs they will almost end rust woes. I say almost because aluminum to steel leaves us with dissimilar metal corrossion problems. Yes sicaflex the heck out of it and shove in a stainless steel bolt. What this does is separates original steel from aluminum with the sicaflex barrier then we join it up again with the bolt. Most areas around where ever I had an aluminum to steel joint sicaflexed with a stanless steel bolt started to bubble the paint on the aluminum after about a year. I now have my curiser completely frame off and sanding through the bubbles I find a white rust like residue for lack of a better term aluminum rust, that will shed your paint. Don't get my message here wrong, I am keeping the aluminum tub and would buy another in a heart beat however I am looking for feedback from others as to how to prevent this corrosion from appearing again a year or so after my next paint job. Other than this problem the purchase of an aqualu tub is a no brainer, strong, light and even with the aluminum rust compared to steel we will probably never live long enough to see it deteriorate to the point of complete rust through.

[jm599]

the white rust, or dust is from electrolysis. I haven't had any noted in 2 years. but I didn't paint the hardware, I painted everything separate and made a lot of plastic washers out of milk jugs to further insulate. the stainless hardware has turned a little dull but no problems with flaking of paint

[dburnum]

I live in SW Kansas, and am also in the hunt for a new tub. I'm curious though about the fitment with a stock hardtop. I like the look of the hardtop, and keep it on usually in the summer as well. It seems I've read somewhere on mud that the aqualu tub fits kinda different though. Not so sure about the heritage tubs though. Does anyone have any real world experiance with the hardtop fitment to the two tubs?

[FineWynsFJ40]

Take a look at my FJ40 http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/123463-yet-another-finished-1974-fj40.html I have the stock hard top and Aqualu aluminum tub. The aluminum tub has been on for 3 years now. I had a guy do the painting for me, properly prepped and painted, used stainless hardware, and this past summer finished the hard top assembly and installation. The dissimilar metal corrosion problem actually is not a factor, aluminum and steel have been joined uninsulated so many times over history without a hitch. Your transfercase housing is aluminum, but the hardware and stuff it mounts to is regular steel, uninsulated from the Al. The stainless is more of a rust-prevention measure. Trust me, I know my metals! Mating the tub to frame is not that bad, for everything on an FJ40 has some sort of 'fudge factor' to it, and this was no different. Assembling the hard top on the tub was interesting, but everything now fits and seals 99% (nothing is ever truly 100% on a Land Cruiser...) I would do the Aqualu tub again in a heartbeat, everything is simple and straightforward on it. You won't be let down with it, I am completely satisfied with it. And for the finish of it, after being properly prepped, primed, and painted, it will look great with the rest of your cruiser. You could whack it with a hammer and not really put a dent in it so much as just scratch the paint. Steel is a very viable option for the 100% purist, but for the other 99% of us the aluminum is pretty much a wonderful way to go. This comes with the Al bias, as I have not seen or experienced a Gozzard tub, I'm merely sharing my experience and thoughts on the aluminum tub. Cheers, and good luck!!

Brian

[jake604]

I just bought a heritage tub and have to do some tac welding for some brackets on the bottom, fuel lines etc......It also is missing a few holes for the center console. So aside from being a pain in the ass to do the welding ( I cant weld, and wont attempt on such a pricey item), i think it will last for a long time. I plan to prep it, paint it, and undercoat it with the best i can find. So, does anyone know a welder in the delaware area ? Oh, did i mention the tub is ridicuosly expensive, i think i did.

[FineWynsFJ40]

Jake, just curious, is the quality of the tub, and the whole package (having to weld, quality of fit, etc.) worth the price of it? An honest evaluation is something I think everybody would be curious about. Keep us updated, eh?

Brian

[fjbj40]

In Aviation we use a product called PRC, a polydisulfide sealer/adhesive. We use it between steel and aluminum faying parts...you put the parts together with the sealer when it is wet. You sink the bolts wet during assy. GOOD SHIT! And you usually don't see corrossion in these areas. Most of the fastners used in aviation are cadmium plated and this acts as a barrier between steel and aluminum , A shitty one but still a barrier.
This is the same as all the hardware that Toyota uses , but once you add salt as the electroylyte it is game over and corrossion takes over. All the steel parts, other than body panels, are cadmium plated or yellow zinc as some call it. This is why there is not alot of dissimilar corrosion between the steel and aluminum parts on the Land cruisers, unless you are in an environment where they use salt, such as where I live. Sometimes trying to remove bolts holding aluminum and steel parts together is a major pain. The pars corrode and are almost impossible to remove!
Don't be fooled by the statement that aluminum is corrossion proof! It will turn to white powder if you don't protect it. The same goes for steel it will rust if you don't protect it...but it will rust alot sooner than aluminum will corrode.
The alclad coating on the aluminum is a very thin layer to act as a sacrificial anode...once scratched through it will attack the base material and blisters will form.
I have been fighting corrossion and rust on aircraft and my vehicles for 20 plus years....all I can say is none of these are is corrossion proof. Steel dies faster than aluminum but aluminum is much harder to repair than steel and if you seal out moisture and use inhibitors they will last a very long time.

I know that was alot of babbling but HTH's, Daryl

[jake604]

If you are handy with a welder it probably isnt too much of a pain to tac the clamps and such. As for the price....its a toss up. I just dont know. I guess it depends on what you plan to do with your cruiser and is the negative investment worth it? I plan to keep mine for around forever. So will it be worth it, i think so. I just with all the fuel line clamps and the side step holes were in place. I thought if i paid that much the standard stuff would be there. So know i have to dick around and find someone to help me weld that stuff. Here is a link to my never ending project.....

http://web.mac.com/mfields17/iWeb/Mi...ruiser%20.html

[Tse Gee La]

Okay, I am looking to do a new tub and cowl due to realy bad rust in both. In looking around I saw a company saying that their steel looked more like original than the al bodies. So does the outside of the AL bodies look that much different from the steel or is it just how the interior areas are done?

I realy want it to look normal on the outside but am not too concerned with square trans hump.

[othergladly]

the tub looks fine, the cowl is a bit different, one less louver cut on the side, IIRC
check out alumacruisers thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/104178-rotw-alumacruiser.html
here's a pic of his rig:

[sikocycles]

Go to Iron Pig Off road in VA and trailer up a Heritage and while you are there trailer me back on also.

Originally Posted by antFJ

i hate to take the focus away from peterson and aqualu and heritage tubs.. but I've been reading on mud for a month or so now and I'm curious to know why no one has mentioned the body tubs sold by www.cruiserparts.net - they say its a "ready to install body tub with new panels all around from firewall back" for $3500.. I was mainly looking at this tub because its within trailer range (i live in CT) and because my tub is pretty shot from firewall back

just wanted to know what you guys think..

-Ant

[antFJ]

haha I don't think my '84 S-10 (2.8L) would be able to haul a tub that far... let alone two... but I do plan on bringing my axels up to cruiser creations next fall.. so we'll see if their tubs are any good - more than not i'll be going with gozzard's.. my dad worked with fiberglass for most of his younger years.. so that will help a ton with prepping and cutting...

on a side note, does anyone know if mike will make any of his tubs a color other than white... from what my dad was telling me if the fiberglass and the outer resin (i don't think thats what it is called) is the same color it is pretty easy to fix any scratches in the outer resin - but even if there are any it won't matter because the fiberglass underneath would be the same color... that would be sweet to just order every body part from gozzard's and just bolt them up together (not that easy.. but yeah)

[JJS]

Originally Posted by antFJ

on a side note, does anyone know if mike will make any of his tubs a color other than white... from what my dad was telling me if the fiberglass and the outer resin (i don't think thats what it is called) is the same color it is pretty easy to fix any scratches in the outer resin - but even if there are any it won't matter because the fiberglass underneath would be the same color... that would be sweet to just order every body part from gozzard's and just bolt them up together (not that easy.. but yeah)

You might want to get ahold of Buckroseau on the board. I read up on his build, and I know he was able to do a decent paint job. I know you have to use etching primer to make the paint bond well, but after that it just becomes a touch-up issue for scratches. Gel coat is fairly scratch resistant.

[sikocycles]

A lot of gozzard info on this site

http://www.crustycruisers.com/index.html

[VT Fj-40 Owner]

Originally Posted by fjbj40

I have been fighting corrossion and rust on aircraft and my vehicles for 20 plus years....all I can say is none of these are is corrossion proof. Steel dies faster than aluminum but aluminum is much harder to repair than steel and if you seal out moisture and use inhibitors they will last a very long time.

Why is it so hard to repair the AL tubs, is it because it bubbles/ warps?

[SteveO]

Originally Posted by antFJ

more than not i'll be going with gozzard's.. my dad worked with fiberglass for most of his younger years.. so that will help a ton with prepping and cutting...

on a side note, does anyone know if mike will make any of his tubs a color other than white...

You may want to check in to the availability of tubs from Gozzard. I tried to get a hold of him for months and didn't hear back from him until someone who knows him called him on my behalf. Even then, he said he'd have a tub for me over the holidays and I haven't heard back from him. I was trying to build an all glass cruiser but I've given up on him and am ordering an Aqualu so that I can get the parts I want in a reasonable time line. I did get the impression from emails with Mike that once he finishes this tub he's been working on he's going to concentrate on his boats instead. There may be the one tub there though that's close to being done if you ask nicely (and can miraculously get a response to your email). ...Steve

[antFJ]

ha thanks for the info.. sadly I probably won't be buying a tub until the summer after this one... gonna try to work my way from the ground up.. the tub being the most expensive thing in this resto.. it'll be one of my last purchases... heh

Joe from supercruisers in prov RI actually just sent me a pm and said they have some aqualu tubs that have an aluminum cowl... seeing as my cowl is shot.. this tub might be the solution to my problems

-shame mike might not contine FJ40 tubs.. those things are beautiful