H41/Orion combo... - Page 4

Poser · 02-06-07, 11:58 PM

The rear spacer is now slipped onto the output shaft, along with the thick washer and new stake nut. I use red locktite on these as well, along with staking the nut. In order to torque the rear transmission nut, I put the transmission in second gear, and engaged reverse to lock the transmission.

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:00 AM

Pictures of the transmission locked and the nut staked.

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:03 AM

So leaving the transmission locked, I put the transfer case in low range, and slipped the front drive collar onto the front output shaft so that I could torque that stake nut as well.

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:05 AM

Pictures of the new fine spline front output shaft(using red locktite on this nut also), torque wrench and staked nut.

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:07 AM

Installing the side PTO gasket and cover. These bolts get blue locktite.

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:09 AM

A couple pictures of it assembled and getting ready to ship out.

D'Animal · 02-07-07, 12:10 AM

Do the parts in picture #78 and # 79 address the previously discussed situation of the Orion popping out of gear when compression braking on long downhills? My Orion was bought new from Gino at AA and installed professionally in Dec 06.

i ran into this problem. The shop said that they had to adjust the ball and spring or add a washer. I see no adjustment using a brass bolt unless you add a washer between the bolt and spring.

Cruiserdrew · 02-07-07, 12:13 AM

Beautiful. I know where the next evolution of my FJ40 is headed.

How come no t-case saver? Is the case so strong it isn't needed?

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:17 AM

I cannot say.

The only washers that I know about are the stepped trust washers that are detailed in the beginning of this write up. They were offering stepped thrust washers to try and keep high and low speed gear free play on the main shaft between .008”-.012”.

Did you look at any of the pieces in your kit?

Was your high-speed gear back cut already?

What kind of free-play was present on the high-speed gear when installed on the main shaft?

Poser · 02-07-07, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiserdrew

Beautiful. I know where the next evolution of my FJ40 is headed.

How come no t-case saver? Is the case so strong it isn't needed?

The new case is cast iron, and not aluminum, and is significantly thicker all over, not just in the areas where the aluminum one-piece case is known to fail.

1Fine40 · 02-08-07, 04:57 PM

Steve, Do you use any type of gasket dressing on the paper gaskets? If so, what is recommended? (Nose cone, Speedo Housing, tranny input...)

Cheers!

Poser · 02-08-07, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Fine40

Steve, Do you use any type of gasket dressing on the paper gaskets? If so, what is recommended? (Nose cone, Speedo Housing, tranny input...)

Cheers!

None on the nose cone or speedo housing, as it will change the bearing preload....

cruiserhead · 02-08-07, 06:43 PM

Excellent write up Steve,thanks.So,do the Orions now come with the new shift shaft and cut gear?
David

Poser · 02-08-07, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruiserhead

Excellent write up Steve,thanks.So,do the Orions now come with the new shift shaft and cut gear?
David

Yes.

Rocinante · 02-09-07, 10:46 PM

Very well written, thank you.

Stumpalama · 02-22-07, 12:44 PM

I may have missed it, but why did you install a new main shaft? Was the original from the H41 a 19 spline?

Ahh, it was the transfercase mainshaft. My bad... So this is what it would take if you didn't have a donor case. right?

great write up! I'm looking at doing exactly this job this spring.

Poser · 02-22-07, 01:00 PM

The only items that I would reuse from a donor case would be the front output shaft and front drive coupler, and the other non-critical exterior pieces.

Unless you have a transfer case main shaft that does not show any wear, which is a pretty rare find in reality, I would plan on replacing the main shaft. Personally, I will not assemble one without a new range shift collar and main shaft. Everything else is new in the case kit. Why get cheap over a couple hundred dollars when you are already dropping a couple grand on this? It has not ever made an ounce of sense to me.

Domek · 02-23-07, 06:37 PM

sorry If missed it but what engine does this combo will it be mate it to?

If it's to a V8 what kind of transfercase carrie/support will be use. I am trying to use or find something else other then AA t-case plate. mine keep getting losing up the studs on t-case
Try everything (locktite blue,red) still same problem.
I am saving for a similar combo 4spd/orion

Poser · 02-23-07, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domek

sorry If missed it but what engine does this combo will it be mate it to?

This was going behind a 2F.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domek

If it's to a V8 what kind of transfercase carrie/support will be use. I am trying to use or find something else other then AA t-case plate. mine keep getting losing up the studs on t-case
Try everything (locktite blue,red) still same problem.
I am saving for a similar combo 4spd/orion

I am willing to bet that the threads in the aluminum case have been damaged.

I would look at drilling them out and installing helicoil threaded inserts if this is in fact, the case.

I have salvaged more than a few transfer case housings this way....

Domek · 02-26-07, 09:03 AM

thanks Poser I will look into that once I am back from Round up. I heard that you might make it down to Katemcy this year.

hope too see you soon.

now what would be your fees for this kind of Job?

need to have an idea more less.

'74 UA FJ · 02-26-07, 01:48 PM

On a slightly different note: Steve, do you normally put new bearings and syncros in the transmissions that you mate up to the orions that you build? Probably 4 out of 6 H42s that I have dealt with pop out of 1st gear on downhills under engine braking and have some syncro wear that can be felt while shifting into a gear or 2.
thanks,

Austin

Poser · 02-26-07, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

On a slightly different note: Steve, do you normally put new bearings and syncros in the transmissions that you mate up to the orions that you build? Probably 4 out of 6 H42s that I have dealt with pop out of 1st gear on downhills under engine braking and have some syncro wear that can be felt while shifting into a gear or 2.
thanks,

Austin

The H41 in this build was a serviced piece by SOR.

I have not messed with installing wear pieces into an H42 transmission as I have always had a collection of known good H42 four speed transmissions, and it is cheaper to install one of them, than it is to pay me to go through the existing one in a vehicle.

D'Animal · 02-27-07, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '74 UA FJ

Probably 4 out of 6 H42s that I have dealt with pop out of 1st gear on downhills under engine braking.
thanks,

Austin

I had the same problem. I found that one of the ball and springs in the shift rods had been lost. I must have lost it when I pull things apart and installed a clutch. I took the top cover of and looked around. I installed all of them that needed to be there and it works great.

atchonda · 04-06-07, 12:32 PM

Poser, you always install new high-low shift collars in your orion assemblies, where do you prchase them from? I am getting ready to put #364 together, & can't find a new collar. AA said to turn my old one in the opposite direction.

Poser · 04-06-07, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atchonda

Poser, you always install new high-low shift collars in your orion assemblies, where do you prchase them from? I am getting ready to put #364 together, & can't find a new collar. AA said to turn my old one in the opposite direction.

Initially, (back in '04) I had purchased six new collars from Toyota, but they have since been discontinued.

SOR has them. (OEM and possibly aftermarket.)

Marksoffroad may have them. (OEM and possibly aftermarket.)

MAF may have them. (OEM and possibly aftermarket.)

atchonda · 04-06-07, 05:54 PM

Thanks for the info. I like all of the Cat hardware on your orion assemblies, I work at a Cat dealer, & know it is some of the best stuff going.

Poser · 04-06-07, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atchonda

Thanks for the info. I like all of the Cat hardware on your orion assemblies, I work at a Cat dealer, & know it is some of the best stuff going.

Halton, Pape, or Western States?

mustardfj40 · 04-06-07, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poser

Initially, (back in '04) I had purchased six new collars from Toyota, but they have since been discontinued.

Bought mine from Stevens Creek Toyota about 6 mos. ago for around 50 bucks (with TLCA discounts).

/td

02-06-07, 11:58 PM	#91
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	The rear spacer is now slipped onto the output shaft, along with the thick washer and new stake nut. I use red locktite on these as well, along with staking the nut. In order to torque the rear transmission nut, I put the transmission in second gear, and engaged reverse to lock the transmission. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:00 AM	#92
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	Pictures of the transmission locked and the nut staked. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:03 AM	#93
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	So leaving the transmission locked, I put the transfer case in low range, and slipped the front drive collar onto the front output shaft so that I could torque that stake nut as well. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:05 AM	#94
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	Pictures of the new fine spline front output shaft(using red locktite on this nut also), torque wrench and staked nut. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:07 AM	#95
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	Installing the side PTO gasket and cover. These bolts get blue locktite. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:09 AM	#96
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	A couple pictures of it assembled and getting ready to ship out. Attached Images

02-07-07, 12:10 AM	#97
D'Animal Beagles Rule! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central California TLCA# 17104 Posts: 10,986	Do the parts in picture #78 and # 79 address the previously discussed situation of the Orion popping out of gear when compression braking on long downhills? My Orion was bought new from Gino at AA and installed professionally in Dec 06. i ran into this problem. The shop said that they had to adjust the ball and spring or add a washer. I see no adjustment using a brass bolt unless you add a washer between the bolt and spring. __________________ Cruiser Dan at American Toyota Phone is 1-800-432-6668 ext. 8 (I am not cruiser Dan) http://www.fcfabrication.com/

02-07-07, 12:13 AM	#98
Cruiserdrew KI6MIE Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA TLCA# 11734 Posts: 7,184	Beautiful. I know where the next evolution of my FJ40 is headed. How come no t-case saver? Is the case so strong it isn't needed? __________________ Andrew 1971 FJ-40 Rubicon tested, 2F powered, some mods 1976 FJ40 Rusting slowly in the back yard 1984 FJ-60 H55f, 4.11, OME, Daily Driver 1989 FJ-62 117k-son's driver for now-low and slow 1997 FZJ-80 Driveway queen

02-07-07, 12:17 AM	#99
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	I cannot say. The only washers that I know about are the stepped trust washers that are detailed in the beginning of this write up. They were offering stepped thrust washers to try and keep high and low speed gear free play on the main shaft between .008”-.012”. Did you look at any of the pieces in your kit? Was your high-speed gear back cut already? What kind of free-play was present on the high-speed gear when installed on the main shaft?

02-08-07, 04:57 PM	#101
1Fine40 IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wild Idaho TLCA# 2581 Posts: 508	Steve, Do you use any type of gasket dressing on the paper gaskets? If so, what is recommended? (Nose cone, Speedo Housing, tranny input...) Cheers! __________________ 78' FJ40,SBC,35's,SR,PS,Lifted SUA,Orion#2, Aussie rr, RDB. "There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

02-08-07, 06:43 PM	#103
cruiserhead GCLC President Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Jersey TLCA# 15185 Posts: 559	Excellent write up Steve,thanks.So,do the Orions now come with the new shift shaft and cut gear? David __________________ 1971-80 FJ40 Hey,I used what I had.Trail and plow truck. 1978 FJ40 under construction-soon to get a 3FE `93 Chevy 1500 Suburban family hauler, wifes DD,`05 GMC 2500HD SLE Extra Cab 4x4 Cruiser Hauler,`95 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 www.gclcny.com Installer of Metal Tech products Crum`s Custom Welding,LLC ccw1@optonline.net Bumpers to roll cages,FJ40 skid plates-fits stock 3,4 speed & Orion trans and transfer case combos.1 year in development and Telico tested

02-09-07, 10:46 PM	#105
Rocinante I'm a zit. Get it? Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin TLCA# 8101 Posts: 90	Very well written, thank you. __________________ Jeff

02-22-07, 12:44 PM	#106
Stumpalama I need a new Avatar :( Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philly Burbs, PA TLCA# 6451 Posts: 599	I may have missed it, but why did you install a new main shaft? Was the original from the H41 a 19 spline? Ahh, it was the transfercase mainshaft. My bad... So this is what it would take if you didn't have a donor case. right? great write up! I'm looking at doing exactly this job this spring. __________________ -Stumpalama 1981 FJ40 "The Tick" ROTW thread 1997 LX 450 factory lockers, OME lift, new HG & PHH, ARB bullbar, Warn M12000 winch, Kaymar Rear Rubicon Pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/stumpst...690384/detail/ Check out VICruisers at: http://members.shaw.ca/VICruisers/ Last edited by Stumpalama; 02-22-07 at 12:49 PM. Reason: I'm a dumbass, sometimes

02-22-07, 01:00 PM	#107
Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the shop TLCA# 1856 Posts: 14,215	The only items that I would reuse from a donor case would be the front output shaft and front drive coupler, and the other non-critical exterior pieces. Unless you have a transfer case main shaft that does not show any wear, which is a pretty rare find in reality, I would plan on replacing the main shaft. Personally, I will not assemble one without a new range shift collar and main shaft. Everything else is new in the case kit. Why get cheap over a couple hundred dollars when you are already dropping a couple grand on this? It has not ever made an ounce of sense to me.

02-23-07, 06:37 PM	#108
Domek IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brownsville,Tx. TLCA# 15585 Posts: 642	sorry If missed it but what engine does this combo will it be mate it to? If it's to a V8 what kind of transfercase carrie/support will be use. I am trying to use or find something else other then AA t-case plate. mine keep getting losing up the studs on t-case Try everything (locktite blue,red) still same problem. I am saving for a similar combo 4spd/orion

02-26-07, 09:03 AM	#110
Domek IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brownsville,Tx. TLCA# 15585 Posts: 642	thanks Poser I will look into that once I am back from Round up. I heard that you might make it down to Katemcy this year. hope too see you soon. now what would be your fees for this kind of Job? need to have an idea more less.

04-06-07, 12:32 PM	#114
atchonda IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sandy Oregon TLCA# 16733 Posts: 33	shift collar Poser, you always install new high-low shift collars in your orion assemblies, where do you prchase them from? I am getting ready to put #364 together, & can't find a new collar. AA said to turn my old one in the opposite direction. __________________ Thanks, Warren Too many toys & not enough time to play! In memory of Gary Johnson ONETON72GMC. RIP Gary, watch over us while we are in the woods! 76 FJ40 SOA, SR, Saginaw PS, 350, H42, Orion 4:1, rear detroit, front ARB, rear discs, Metal Tech family cage, OBA.

04-06-07, 05:54 PM	#116
atchonda IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sandy Oregon TLCA# 16733 Posts: 33	Thanks for the info. I like all of the Cat hardware on your orion assemblies, I work at a Cat dealer, & know it is some of the best stuff going. __________________ Thanks, Warren Too many toys & not enough time to play! In memory of Gary Johnson ONETON72GMC. RIP Gary, watch over us while we are in the woods! 76 FJ40 SOA, SR, Saginaw PS, 350, H42, Orion 4:1, rear detroit, front ARB, rear discs, Metal Tech family cage, OBA.