Valve Adjustment

[AJFJ40]

How do you easily rotate the engine to get to TDC? On my 1970 there doesn't seem to be a way to get on the crank a the front to rotate the engine due to the connector for a hand crank. I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by AJFJ40

I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

Did you leave it in gear?






I roll the truck with it in top gear, or use a 1/2" drive, long handled ratchet with a 46mm socket on the crank nut and turn it over that way...

[AJFJ40]

No, I was in neutral.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by AJFJ40

No, I was in neutral.

Well something is not right....


Even a new engine can be turned over by hand with the plugs removed....

[FF LC FREAK]

I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

No, I was in neutral.

How exactly are you trying to turn it over? With mine, with the spark plugs out, I push in on the belt (just to add a little more friction) and spin the fan. It turns over okay that way. I wouldn't say it spins freely, but it is definitely doable.

Good luck!

[Nomis]

Originally Posted by Poser

Did you leave it in gear?

Just remember to take it out of gear when you go to start it - I forgot and mine lunged forward!! I replaced the starter with a newer gear reduction unit and that sob has some torque.

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by Poser

If they are not staying adjusted properly for more than 2500-3K miles, someone is not doing something correct when adjusting the valves....


They do not 'fall out of adjustment' overnight....and should not after only 2 or 3 thousand miles of operation....

Respectfully disagree Steve. While I have been lucky to have periods of 6 or 9 months where I can go without adjusting the valves, there are other times where only weeks are involved. The same goes for several of my customers. There are two main factors for this.

One is camshaft wear. As the lobes wear down, the clearances change. I have adjusted valves for customers and have told them that the cam was going flat, based on the amount of 'slop' that had accumulated since the last adjustment. Then, sometimes, a lobe will surprise me and slow down its rate of deterioration as it gets closer to round. Granted, not near enough valve lift anymore, but goes out of adjustment less often.

Second reason: rebuilt head. Machine shops in these parts are big on pushing new valve seats during the rebuild process. The seats migrate over time. Sometimes they move once and stop. When that happens, that's great! Often times tho, they stay in one place for a while, then move incrementally over time. No particular rhyme or reason, tho I suspect longer trips at higher temperatures play a part. Not that I would know about that!

Case in point. I have a customer who drives his 69FJ40 from here in L.A. to Idaho every year or so. I installed a rebuilt head on his rig after he burned a valve from leaving them out of adjustment too long on one of his road trips. I installed a vacuum guage in his truck at that time and told him that if he was on another long road trip and saw the needle flickering, that he should get the valves adjusted at the nearest town and not wait for me.

He didn't listen. Needle started flickering about 300 miles from L.A. [so he says] In any event, 300 miles later, I was pulling the head again to replace another burned valve. I am certain that migrating valve seats caused this.

Bottom line: I don't see a problem with checking them with every oil change. In deference to Stumbaugh, I will admit that my maternal grandparents were German too!

[AATLAS1X]

This is news to me!

Great read you guys.

I can't wait to tell someone to make an apointment for thier oil change since it will be $289.00


Question. is this for all 2F engines? Or is the 3FE like this as well?

What does the manual say?

Is this every 3k miles or the 6 or so that is stated on the air cleaner decal?

[colangut]

To add to the newly rebuild head situation:

Another factor with rebuilt heads is that not all machine shops have good equipment or equipment that is not well worn. Even a good machine shop might have a tool that is getting dull. When a head is rebuilt and the valves/seats are ground, you need good sharp tooling to get a good seal. This is especially true with hardened valve seats. If the head has been rebuilt and this is not factory quality work or better, your going to get a lot of change as the motor breaks in. This will require many valve adjustments as the valves break in. Like Mark said, some of this is going to happen anyway. How do I know this? Experience is a euphemism for a long list of mistakes.

After a rebuild, you should always check the combustion chamber with alcohol to make sure that the chamber can hold with out leaking. When you get the head back from the machine shop, flip it over, fill the chambers and make sure they do not leak. I was taught that it's OK if they "weep" a little, but they alcohol should not leak out. I learned this trick from Bunny Burkette’s engine builder, he used to do this in the pits between runs to make sure that a used head did not have a mushroomed valve or to check a newly machined head and seats. This is much more reliable than the old Prussian blue test. You would be shocked how many times this simple test has found a bad valve job. I once got a full refund and a rebuild for free after running this test. I guess the guy had a bad day when he did my valves.

A badly rebuilt head is not what Mark's customer experinced, that is just normal after major service maintenance. With any head rebuild, you need to check the valves a few times. I'd do it at at 250 miles then at the 2nd oil change at 500 miles (1st oil change after 30 minutes of break in).

Poser, I always check the valves and more often than not, I find one that is loose or worse tight. Not very often are they all good. I also habitually check the oil in the transfercase. And, I check the oil pressure about every three minutes. I think this is called Super Type A.

-Stumbaugh

[surfpig]

Alright, alright.

I'll adjust my damned valves!

Sheesh.

[REZARF]

Originally Posted by wesintl

Drew, If you need some help one day let me know. For a first timer adjusting valves by yourself it can get frustrating trying to get it right with the adjustment and locknut. I's alot easier if you have Stacy willing to help with tighening while you hold the adjustment and feeler.

Thanks Wes,

I have done it on my cruiser several times, I was just wondering if I am missing out by not having one of those specific tools.

Thanks man!

[65swb45]

Update: I now have a couple of pics that show what I've been talking about regarding valve seat recession. Unfortunately for me, they came from my cylinder head, which I had to pull off my 40 earlier today!

Pics are in this thread:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=518221

Difference between the high seat and the low seat is over 1/16th inch!

[honk]

Are those both new valves? Your pictures don't 'document' anything unless both valves are identical and one of yours looks like the victim of too many grindings in an attempt to economize.

It'd be a pretty crappy machine shop to install valve seats in a way that would allow seat "recession" - in fact I can't really imagine it. Seats are not moving parts; they are installed into a ground recess by shrink fit and if correctly done they don't move. Where would they go? If your theory is correct then valve seats should eventually grind themselves right into the water jacket. Absurd.

[colangut]

Honk,

Sounds to me like you have better machine shops in your area than most.

I've had trouble with valve seat installations on many occasions over the years with machine shops here in DC, I alluded to that in my earleir post.

In fact, every time I build an engine I find at least one problem, large or small when blue printing.


From:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/eb40332.htm

I

nterference?
The recommended amount of interference between the valve seat insert and head may vary depending on the size of the insert, the type of insert (alloy or powder metal) and type of head (cast iron or aluminum). The best advice is to use the amount of interference recommended by the OEM engine manufacturer.

Too much interference runs the risk of cracking the head while too little interference increases the risk of the seat coming loose or falling out. One of the leading causes of seats coming loose, however, is not the amount of interference between the seat and head but elevated operating temperatures. Anything that causes the exhaust valve to run hot may also cause the seat to loosen.

Same article also refers to seats being difficult to machine as I also refered to.

Good read.

-Stumbaugh

[Blue77FJ40]

Get this, I just ordered the blue (.20mm) and the light green (.35mm) from Wurth and they said the .35 was discontinued due to lack of sales. No .35mm in stock anywhere.

[colangut]

Well, that sucks!

I guess the ones I gave my buddy are worth more than weight in gold then...

James Asti gave me mine, maybe he has more? 4x4connection.com

Also, I found these:

http://www.techsavvy.com/industry/fi...&base_region=*


Also, this one rocks:

http://www.lsmproducts.com/

scroll down to the FL200

-Stumbaugh

[Poser]

Wow...










Guess I am the cheap guy...

[Mikesta]

Looking at the Manual on Mike's site

http://www.root45.com/F%20Engine%20R...ual%201966.pdf

It states 10 for intake and 14 for exhaust.

Are you guys talking about the 2F engine? I am working with a F Engine from 71. The manual is for a 66 F.

Any insight on this would be appreciated. The truck is warm and ready to be tuned.

Also, should you have the timing completely perfect before doing this task? The reason I ask is because I just slapped this engine in and the timing is probably within 5% of being perfect.

Thanks

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Mikesta

Looking at the Manual on Mike's site

http://www.root45.com/F%20Engine%20R...ual%201966.pdf

It states 10 for intake and 14 for exhaust.

Are you guys talking about the 2F engine? I am working with a F Engine from 71. The manual is for a 66 F.

Any insight on this would be appreciated. The truck is warm and ready to be tuned.

Also, should you have the timing completely perfect before doing this task? The reason I ask is because I just slapped this engine in and the timing is probably within 5% of being perfect.

Thanks

Mikes site is for the F135....early stuff.


Your 1971 would be .008" and .014" just like all the rest.

[Mikesta]

Originally Posted by Poser

Mikes site is for the F135....early stuff.


Your 1971 would be .008" and .014" just like all the rest.

Thanks Poser!

[colangut]

Good Feeler set:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mark-...temZ4642949314

-Stumbaugh

[Jerry D.]

My 2 cents…

I used to set valves with the engine running, only problem was the feller gauges would get beat down and you needed to frequently replace them. Not to mention you need to be on level ground or there would be some oil drip off of the head. The adjustment with the engine off is much easier and cleaner.

A question, where would be the best place to attach a hose for a vacuum gauge???

Thanks,
Jerry D.

[desertpat]

Gents - good thread,
I did my valve clearances last weekend and the rockers are a bit noisy. It was actually quieter before I adjusted them, but I know none of them are too tight.
Will do it again.
Meanwhile, a fellow cruiser owner who happens to be a German engineer and long experienced with cruisers (not limited to the 2F engine) started a discussion.
He maintains that each valve needs to be adjusted independently - the TDC mark on the flywheel is not necessarily the "sweet spot" for all valves.
He also mentioned this is inherant to 2F's only.
He is an international guy and said he picked up this tidbit from the best cruiser mechanic he ever knew.
It takes considerable more time to check the clearances at, before and after the TDC mark to verify.
I didn't do it the last time, but I thought I would mention his theory.

[lc69hunter]

Originally Posted by Rocky_LC

Good Link on how it's done.

I just did mine last weekend. I kept the same gasket.

http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/tech/valves.html

Rocky

Good link. Thanks

[toyrunner]

I just adjusted a friends valves on his 82 FJ40 today.
Brought the rig to operating temp, pulled the cover and set engine to TDC. Adjusted appropriate valves, rotated engine 360* and adjusted those valves.
Started engine and checked, while running, all valve lashes. Some were real good some were real needy to be reset. I re-adjusted em while the motor was running and she really smoothed out good. I then set to adjust the fuel mixture and this rig was saying thanks! She purrs like a kitten and roars down the highway like no other
I didn't break any fingers, tools, or even have to cuss
Next is my 40. It is noisy
Just thought I would share my experience here.
Thanks for all the tips and other real info shared here.
Happy New Year to all!
Danny

[toyrunner]

Finally got to the 40 today. The valves were in need of adjusting. Rig runs smoother now and there is still valve train noise. I know the valves are adjusted right so no worries here. Calico, here we come. I need a stencil like Marks now!
Danny