2F head

[apeterson]

does anyone know if a 2f head will work on a f engine... trying to get an engine running and it will not start... PO said he rebuilt with a 2f head? is that the problem? Has not run in a while (not sure how long) has spark, and compression, and will pop off if you pour gas in the carb, but will not stay running.... Just want to make sure it will work and that is not my problem....

any ideas?

A.P.

[Poser]

Well if it will run when you pour gas down the carb, but will not keep running, that would tend to make me think about fuel delivery issues....

[65swb45]

2F heads can be run on an F engine, provided the F engine rocker oiling system is retained and the manifold studs work with the manifolds. Not a deal breaker.

Just a hunch, but I'd guess that in your scenario, someone inadvertently bumped up the timing too far. I'd start by finding #1 TDC compression stroke and checking your distributor timing.

If popping continues, do a compression test and follow up low readings with a 'wet' test.

Hth

Mark A.

[apeterson]

ok.... timing has been checked (or I think)... I dont know how to do this myself, but I do need to learn, but the guy I am buying it from has checked it... it will not run but will spit and sputter....

Thanks for your replys!

[Mark W]

*Some* 2F heads will work on *some* F engines, albeit with lowered compression.

What vintage F shortblock and what vintage 2F head did you combine?


Mark...

[apeterson]

well..... I am not sure.... I have not looked at the engine yet... I am buying it from someone... I know it is a 74 F and have no idea what 2F is on it... what do you mean by some will work and some will not?

[apeterson]

so how can I tell if the rocker arms are getting oil... right now I got it running, just having some fuel issues so it will not stay running long enough now to see any oil on the rockers.... what will it look like when I get it running... should oil be spashing up on the rockers and valvles if it is working properly?

[rjcruiser]

With the valve cover off and the engine running, you'll get oil to start dripping from the rockers. Also, the fan will start to blow it all over your engine bay and carb, so you'll want to keep a little rag handy to wipe up the mess after you shut things down. I must say, watching the valves dance up and down is a pretty sight. Another thing you'll want to probably do is adjust the valves to the proper specs. I know that when I did that with my engine (sitting for a long time before I got it), it made a big difference.

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by apeterson

well..... I am not sure.... I have not looked at the engine yet... I am buying it from someone... I know it is a 74 F and have no idea what 2F is on it... what do you mean by some will work and some will not?

Pre '68 F engines used siamesed exhaust ports and a deep "bathtub" style combustion chamber. They're pretty much on their own so far as interchanginf anything.

From then until '72 the F engine used a flattop piston and a closed combustion chamber.
'73 and '74 F engines used an open combustion chamber and a very small dome on the piston.

'75-'80 US variant 2Fs used an open chamber and a domed piston.

'81 and later 2Fs used a closed chamber and a flat top piston.


A '73-'74 F head will be a bolt on swap to any of the 2F, producing more compression on the '75-'80 blocks.

A pre '73 F head will swap to the later 2F engines once the rocker arm oiling is addressed. There will be piston/head interference on the early 2Fs

You can install an early 2F head on a late 2F engine. You will loose compression.

You can install any 2F head on the pre-'73 F engines. Again, you will loose compression, especially if you install an early 2F head with the open chamber.


Mark...

[wesintl]

Above post should be in the FAQ.

[apeterson]

Thanks.... am I wrong in thinking I have a f engine with a 2 F head..... an I a Nobb and dont know what I am talking about (very very new to this)

so I got compression and it will start... once I get the fuel thing figured out.... so if it runs am I okay... or should I be worried about something??? I dont want to destroy my engine if there is something I should be doing differently..

My engine block is Blue, does that mean anything or did someone just paint it.
I also have a 4 speed trans. and I though before I got this that every 2f came with a 4 speed and all f came with a 3 speed... am I wrong here to...

sorry so many questions.... I am learning and reading alot.... thanks!!

[rjcruiser]

Originally Posted by Mark W

Pre '68 F engines used siamesed exhaust ports and a deep "bathtub" style combustion chamber. They're pretty much on their own so far as interchanginf anything.
Mark...

I'm not sure about the above....I've got an early F (off a '64) that I bolted up a '73 head to. This allows me to use the later model carb intake (double barrel) and improved exhaust manifold. I've got it running fairly well...don't have compression numbers as I don't have a compression tool. I think I have a little bit of a vacuum leak, but other than that, it idles and drives fine.

[Mark W]

Originally Posted by rjcruiser

I'm not sure about the above....I've got an early F (off a '64) that I bolted up a '73 head to. This allows me to use the later model carb intake (double barrel) and improved exhaust manifold. I've got it running fairly well...don't have compression numbers as I don't have a compression tool. I think I have a little bit of a vacuum leak, but other than that, it idles and drives fine.

Sorry, I was thinking about swapping the bathtub head onto anything else. If you swapp the manifolds and other affected components along with the head, then you can update the earlier Fs with the later F heads. It'll boost your compression some too.


Mark...

[rjcruiser]

No apology necessary.....as a rookie, I don't want to come across as knowing more than a lifer

[apeterson]

Thanks Mark! hope who ever put my head in did everything they were suppose to do...

[IDave]

How does a late F/2F oil it's rockers? There's no oil tube or union like my earlier Fs.

[Mark W]

'74 and on oil the rockers via a passage from the #3 cam bearing, through the top of the block, over to the head bolt by the #5 spark plug via a passage in the head gasket, up around the head bolt into the head, then via a drilled boss to the base of the rocker arm pedestal just ahead of #5 plug and up through the pedestal to the rocker arm assembly.


Mark...

[IDave]

Thanks, Mark!

[Degnol]

Originally Posted by IDave

Thanks, Mark!

Jeeze Dave. that's just what I told you in a more-confusing, less professional, un-technical way.


Ed

[IDave]

Originally Posted by Degnol

Jeeze Dave. that's just what I told you in a more-confusing, less professional, un-technical way.


Ed

Thank you, too, Ed!

[apeterson]

ok just a quick update...... got the engine running.... about 5 min at a time... 2 times... so 10 min total.... still no oil in top of engine.... rocker arms seem like they are getting somthing... but not the top of arms and springs.... my dad (not a cruiser guy, but an engine guy) says to keep running it and it will take longer to get the oil up... is he wrong? what is my worse case senario? should I be worried??

[Rocky_LC]

I would worry. 5 Min of running with no oil dripping out of the rocker arm sounds like a problem to me. The oil pump should pressurize the top end in less than 15 seconds.

I wouldn't run it anymore until I figured out that it WASN'T bad....

No easy suggestions:

Pull the dizzy and pump the oil up with an electric drill? - That's hard - and possibly risky if you don't put it together right. and if nothing comes out, you still have to pull the head...

Pull the head, and ensure all oil passages are clear? That's hard.

Can you remove the rocker assy, and see if oil is feeding into the tube? I'll bet that's hard too, and then you have to run the engine more...

Maybe someone else has a good (easy) suggestion.....

Rocky

[Mark W]

I've never seen a 2F that will show oil flow at the rockers on initial start up within 15 seconds. But 5 minutes is longer by far than it should take.

Popping the distributor out and spinning the oil pump with a drill is easy. But it's a crap shoot as to whether that will oil the rockers anyway (the camshaft needs to be spinning for thre oil to pass through it.

I'l dump some oil over the rocker assembly to keep from damaging anything, and run it for a while.... Assuming that:

You made sure that the headgasket got installed correctly. If it's put in backward/upside down the oiling passage is blocked.

You're sure that the distributir is seated in the pump and that you have oil pressure.


Mark...

[apeterson]

I am not sure the head gasket got put in correctly.... I assume the only way to ckeck that is by pulling it all out...

where is the oil pump and how do I make sure I have pressure....

[Mark W]

There is about 1/4 - 1/2 inch of head gasket that sticks out at the back of the head when it is installed correctly. AFAIK, all aftermarket head gaskets are this way to, but maybe not (this would help explain how people manage to put them on backward in the forst place).

The oil pump is... in the pan. If you are asking because of the comments about spinning it with a drill... You pull the distributor anddrive it through there. The bottom of the distributor shaft fits into the oil pump and that is what spins the pump. If the distributor is not completely seated on the bolck it will not ingage the pump and the pump will not turn, resulting in no oil to the engine.

For oil pressure... check the gauge.

While it doesn't tell you anything about the pressure, you can easily check for oil flow itself byloosening the oil flter. If it's ful of oil and starts leaking a mess all over the side of the engine... You're getting oil from the pump.


Mark...

[apeterson]

let engine run again today for 15 min... I put oil on the rockers so that everything was lubed up... no extra oil is comming to the surface... the oil pressure gauge goes to about 3/4 to the top of the gauge... so I assume it is reading correctly... pulled off the oil filter and yes there is oil there... so I know it is getting around...

going to check in the morning to make sure that all head gasket is sticking out the back... I will post in the moring what I find out..

[PVCruiser]

Originally Posted by apeterson

ok just a quick update...... got the engine running.... about 5 min at a time... 2 times... so 10 min total.... still no oil in top of engine.... rocker arms seem like they are getting somthing... but not the top of arms and springs.... my dad (not a cruiser guy, but an engine guy) says to keep running it and it will take longer to get the oil up... is he wrong? what is my worse case senario? should I be worried??

I wouldn't worry to much. It's not good, but it won't damage the head (short term).. I had a '74 F motor that I rebuilt (first motor I ever rebuilt). We'll the head gasket appears to fit two ways, but to the trained eye one will block the oiling to the head. I drove 600 miles on the motor out to Death Valley and back before I realized my mistake of blocking the oiling passage to the head.

I would definetly fix your problem ASAP.