[dtt255]

Ok, Here we go. the official ARB Bumper Thread for the LC200.

This thread is VERY pic intensive so be warned:

First some pics of the BEFORE LC200:



BORING!!! Un-Protected!!

Ok....now the Modified LC200



Alright....now for the pics of what happened in between:

(I will try to caption in between but don't yell at me if I don't please!)

In the shop all ready to go!



Bumper all packaged:



Bumper Unpackaged:



Bumper with the winch installed in it:



Grill removed:



Stock Bumper Removed:
(noticed the great protection the stock bumper provides!)



As expected the original bumper needed to be cut at certain places. Here you can see the measuring being done and taped:







After the cutting of the stock bumper....here are the results:
(notice how the headlight washer outlets are still there and the rubber gasket along the edge of the piece of bumper. There is no worry of rusting as the bumper is not metal)





What is left of the stock bumper....which is now in the Hemet, Ca landfill.





Here are the main brackets for the bumper , attached at the frame:



Also notice them in the far right bottom of this pic:



Notice here the wheel well (bottom left) and how LONG it comes down after the old bumper is removed:



Here are the guys fitting on the bumper:
Once again notice how far down the wheel wells come down below the ARB bumper. By cutting off the excess it gives me TONS of more front bumper clearance. I will make this VERY known in pics to come.

[dtt255]

Notice in this pic in the bottom right the spot for the new blinker and driving/fog light. I didn't realize at the time that I was going to need new driving lights, so I need to order some 4" lights to fit in the bracket. ARB provided an adapter to fit in this spot and included new blinkers but did not provider any driving or fog lights.



Ok...there are the install pics.

Just to separate, I will post the finalized pics and observations in another reply.

[dtt255]

Here at the final product pics:

YES, I did ad Nitto Terra Grapplers this week They make the LC Looks so damn good....











Inside the winch chamber with the Master Pull Synthetic Cable:



Winch Choke:



The headlight cleaner still works:



Notice the 15mm gap between the ARB bumper and the old bumper piece:







The only thing we can all think of is that they leave this space for flexing that could and most likely will occur wen using the winch. The ARB instructions do state that it should have exactly 15mm of space, so everything is up to specs.



Ok, here are some front pics. The amount of front bumper clearance that I gained is incredible: (It looks so much beefier!) Note something very kewl. ARB provided 3 new skids plates to go inder the middle, then the left and right wheel wells to avoid stuff from getting in there. Very NICE touch!









Here is another view pics of the wheel well difference:

[dtt255]

Ok, well here are my thoughts:

The bumper looks kick ass!

All Pro Off Road did a GREAT job!! Kudos to them!!

I love the new look.

The instructions stated to drill holes for the front parking sensors so that was done, but they keep going off when I am driving under 20 mph. I cannot figure out why. You can see that they are as flush as before, I will try and take it into Toyota....but I doubt they will touch them.

The truck was lowered approx 1" when all is said and done. Not bad at all!!

I am annoyed by ARB for not indicating that new driving/fog lights needed to be purchased....BUT they kind of made up for it by those three new skid plates.

I don't like the winch control box being right in front like that, I have never liked that look...but oh well, I will live. When I go back to get the other lights installed we are going to see if there is another mounting place. Plus I need to protect those cables going into the bumper.

The original winch cables were not even near long enough, so that was annoying but easily fixed.

The jury is still out on that 15mm spacing on the sides......but it is what the instructions say. I am going to write to ARB Australia and see what they say.

Otherwise....ALL IS GOOD!! Time to go out!!

[mot]

Looks pretty dang sharp!

Now lift it and stuff even bigger tires (if it they would fit!).

I love modding my vehicle(s) because everytime I do it it makes it feel like it's a new rig, but I guess in your case it IS a new rig.

[bulldog-yota]

Very cool. The gap is needed to prevent the bumper from hiting the body while offroading. The bumper will move in relation to the body when you flex the front as well as when you hit some fast bumps, etc. Reason is th ebumper is mounted to the frame, and the body will move on top of the mounts off road.

Very neatly done, what did they use to cover the edges of the plastic bumper? Very nice touch.

Guess it is time to upgrade the suspension now

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by bulldog-yota

Very cool. The gap is needed to prevent the bumper from hiting the body while offroading. The bumper will move in relation to the body when you flex the front as well as when you hit some fast bumps, etc. Reason is th ebumper is mounted to the frame, and the body will move on top of the mounts off road.

Very neatly done, what did they use to cover the edges of the plastic bumper? Very nice touch.

Guess it is time to upgrade the suspension now

Well it only dropped 14mm, so about an inch, so not that bad at all. My MPG did drop on the freeway from 17 to about 15. Oh Well.

[chimyz]

Originally Posted by dtt255

Well it only dropped 14mm, so about an inch, so not that bad at all. My MPG did drop on the freeway from 17 to about 15. Oh Well.

Still a new engine though...could improve over 15mpg. How many miles you got on it now?

By the way...congrats on your new baby (the bumper). Looks great, and it will be super duty off road. If I am ever in Cali again, we should hook up for an off road run!

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by chimyz

Still a new engine though...could improve over 15mpg. How many miles you got on it now?

By the way...congrats on your new baby (the bumper). Looks great, and it will be super duty off road. If I am ever in Cali again, we should hook up for an off road run!

Sounds like a date! I just hit 13k today!

[calstyl2]

Nice to see Allpro do some Cruiser work, nice job...

[airlaird]

Man, it takes cojones to just trash the front bumper..very nice. May I ask what the paint code is on your LC...I think I will use that on my trailer build?
airlaird

[calamaridog]

It looks really good. Nice job.

Can't wait to see a few inches of suspension lift.

[twstrchasr]

Bumper looks really good...BUT....I do find the gap to be more than a little disconcerting. As far as the bumper flexing along with the frame, doesn't the ARB for the 100 do the same? Looking at the 200, the bumper itself doesn't come in contact with any sheet metal does it ? The only areas that come into contact with the the arb is whats left of the factory bumper cover. And that is somewnat flexible (plastic), right? On the 100, the ARB comes in direct contact with sheet metal (front fenders and grill area). If anything, that would pose a much greater chance of being damaged while flexing. Now I am no expert in engineering but I find the explanation for that gap to be there very suspect, at best. I think I'd be pissed if I bought the ARB only to have a big gap like there is ! Maybe it was rushed into production a little quickly, perhaps ??

Please correct me if my observations about any of this is incorrect. As I said, I'm no engineer, just observant !!

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

Bumper looks really good...BUT....I do find the gap to be more than a little disconcerting. As far as the bumper flexing along with the frame, doesn't the ARB for the 100 do the same? Looking at the 200, the bumper itself doesn't come in contact with any sheet metal does it ? The only areas that come into contact with the the arb is whats left of the factory bumper cover. And that is somewnat flexible (plastic), right? On the 100, the ARB comes in direct contact with sheet metal (front fenders and grill area). If anything, that would pose a much greater chance of being damaged while flexing. Now I am no expert in engineering but I find the explanation for that gap to be there very suspect, at best. I think I'd be pissed if I bought the ARB only to have a big gap like there is ! Maybe it was rushed into production a little quickly, perhaps ??

Please correct me if my observations about any of this is incorrect. As I said, I'm no engineer, just observant !!

I cannot disagree with you. When talking to the installers after it was done, we all agreed that if we would have known about the gap before they would have cut it differently then the instructions said to. Although being the first time, we followed the instructions to the letter.

I have written to ARB and will be calling them tomorrow to see what they say about it.

I may be able to easily fix this if I can find a rubber seal that is just about an inch wider and the problem is solved, but that does not curb my questions.

[twstrchasr]

Originally Posted by dtt255

I cannot disagree with you. When talking to the installers after it was done, we all agreed that if we would have known about the gap before they would have cut it differently then the instructions said to. Although being the first time, we followed the instructions to the letter.

I have written to ARB and will be calling them tomorrow to see what they say about it.

In retrospect it is a small item because all I need to do is find a rubber seal that is just about an inch wider and the problem is solved, but that does not curb my questions.

I was actually going to say that if/when I get a 200 and order the bumper for it I was going to cut the trim lines of the tupperware much closer to the edge of the ARB. Maybe they can make some sort of piece (gasket) that attaches to the plastic but extends farther out to the bumper itself ?? I think they should have definitely disclosed that there was going to be a gap between the plastic and the bull bar !!

I'd really like to hear what Slee has to say about their explanation about the flexing, etc..If anyone has firsthand experience in these matters, it would be he. His hands might be somewhat tied though, since he is an ARB dealer.

Keep us updated on this Dtt...Very interested to see how this unfolds !!!!

[twstrchasr]

Look very closely and you can see the gap. It's one of those things that, unless you know it's there, you probably wouldn't even notice it .. Still......

Just from looking at the two rigs, your gap looks to be quite a bit greater.

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

Look very closely and you can see the gap. It's one of those things that, unless you know it's there, you probably wouldn't even notice it .. Still......

Just from looking at the two rigs, your gap looks to be quite a bit greater.

Once of the main differences between his and mine is that mine has a winch in it.

His bumper is the one without the winch option.

I can only assume that is part of the issue.

[twstrchasr]

That's possible...I would think that ARB would take the added weight of a winch into cosideration. Actually make the trim lines smaller to account for any pendulum effect that might happen do to the added weight of a winch. I'm not sure how accurate that would be though. The frame itself wouldn't change. Just the weight of the bull bar. The bumper should be able to be installed fairly level regardless of the added weight of the winch.

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

That's possible...I would think that ARB would take the added weight of a winch into cosideration. Actually make the trim lines smaller to account for any pendulum effect that might happen do to the added weight of a winch. I'm not sure how accurate that would be though. The frame itself wouldn't change. Just the weight of the bull bar. The bumper should be able to be installed fairly level regardless of the added weight of the winch.

I agree.

The bumper is exactly level and installed perfectly. I was there, obviously , the whole 8 hours!

Below is a copy of the email I sent to ARB USA and ARB Austrailia:
__________________________________________________ ______

My name is Mitchell XXXXXXX and along with All Pro Off Road in Hemet, CA. We have installed the FIRST LC200 Winch Bumper in the USA.

The Install went very smooth and without any problems, but there is an issue with the result.

Overall the bumper is terrific, but there is a LARGE 15mm gap on BOTH sides of the bumper where it is coming up against the remaining piece of the original bumper.

We followed the template to the letter with all the measurements and ended up with a 15mm gap on both sides. We grabbed the template and triple checked everything and found that we did everything correctly.

At the end of the instructions it actually states that there will be a 15mm gap, but no explanation as to why. I could see this space being there if it was touching actual metal, leaving room for flex without damage, but the original bumper piece is not metal but plastic with A LOT of flex.

Overall I am very happy with the results but I feel that an explanation should be given for this obvious issue as it seems that somewhere ARB is seeing something that we cannot figure out.

Considering I spent upwards oh $XXXX US dollars for this project ($XXXX bumper, $XXXX WARN winch, $XXX Masterpull Synthetic Cable, $XXX on install) I would like to hear the reasoning behind this.

You can see the install pics and results on this thread at IH8MUD.com:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/200-series-c...ml#post3442395

I look forward to your prompt response.

Thank You,
Mitchell

__________________________________________________ _____

I might even get a response from the Australian ARB today being the time difference.

[sleeoffroad]

Those bars (the ARB bumpers that use a separate mounting system and then a bumper cover) typically have a fair amount of adjustment. Are you sure you can not adjust it up.

The body does flex on the frame and 15mm is a relatively standard for setting gaps around the bumper and body parts. Yes the plastic will give more than sheet metal, but you still run the risk of popping the plastic out of it's clips if the bumper starts to push against the bumper.

There should be no difference in winch and non-winch installation position of the bumper. The added weight of the winch does not affect the location of the bumper.

I would like to see a more flexible rubber gasket to fill the gap. On the rear bumper we did, we trimmed it much closer. We will see what the results are one our customer returns from his trip.


As for fog lights not included, that is pretty standard.

FYI, did you install another sleeve on your winch rope? If not, that one is supposed to go against the drum for heats protection of the rope. MasterPull does supply separate rock guards that can be used for the protection on the rope.

[sdtash]

Guys, I read your concerns regarding the gap between the ARB bar and the guard of the LC 200 in my photo. I have measured the distance between the the surfances on my 200 and have the same 15mm or 0.591" clearence as Mitchell's 200. I would add the 15mm is from the start of the bull bar to the plastic surface of the guard fender. I am happy to assist further if required.

[sleeoffroad]

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

I think they should have definitely disclosed that there was going to be a gap between the plastic and the bull bar !!

I don't think a disclosure is needed. It is standard to have gaps between metal bumpers and the truck. The factory can attach the plastic bumper because it is bolted, clipped and secured to the whole truck and will flex with the movement of the body vs the fame. When we disturb the mounting of the bumper by cutting 1/2 of it away you can not rely that it is going to stay put when you start flexing it.

I am not keen on how it looks, but hey, that is what they had to work with.

[sdtash]

I would note , that from my photos the wheel arc and bullbar appear in perfect alignment whilst the latter would appear the bar is pushed back out of alignment. It might be the bar could be adjusted to a better position. ?

[sdtash]

[quote=dtt255;3439289]Here at the final product pics

You can see from this photo, that the bar needs adjusting up and forward a touch

[dtt255]

Well here is the issue if we try to push the bar farther back it will cover the headlight washers. If you look in some of the above pics you will see we have about 1/4 inch until we start touching those. So it is as far back as we can go.

Slee- I am glad to hear that it is not that unusal for that size of a gap. I would also like to see a better sized gasket.
BTW That piece you see out of the winch is the rock guard I purchased seperately.

Like I have mentioned before, I love the way it looks, I just wish there was a longer gasket.

[twstrchasr]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

I don't think a disclosure is needed. It is standard to have gaps between metal bumpers and the truck. The factory can attach the plastic bumper because it is bolted, clipped and secured to the whole truck and will flex with the movement of the body vs the fame. When we disturb the mounting of the bumper by cutting 1/2 of it away you can not rely that it is going to stay put when you start flexing it.

I am not keen on how it looks, but hey, that is what they had to work with.

You are correct. I meant to go back and ammend that statement about "disclosure". I guess in actuality they did, when they describe the trimming of the plastic bumper cover.

[dtt255]

Ok well I just spoke to Marc, one of the head engineers over at ARB USA and he was helpful.

I mentioned my concerns about the gap. He said that it was the correct size. He said that they when things were tested in Australia and here in the US that they saw 1/2 inch flex several times when they were going through their trials
That is why they have a 15mm space and he also said that it is NOT uncommon to have that amount of space.

I think we see that via Slee's comments.

As to why they didn't provide a larger rubber seal....he doesn't know. He suggest a few places that I should go to find one that would be to my liking.

He told me to be very conscious after I come back from wheeling to see if a more snug trim is rubbing and leaving marks on the ARB bumper and maybe even start rubbing away the powder coating. Also to watch to make sure the part that is left of the original bumper isn't constantly popping out.

About the parking sensors.....he laughed when he heard about that. He says the parking sensors are a PITA and told me what mostly likely is wrong. There are left and right sensors but even if they are set on the correct sides that they need to be oriented for the up and down correctly.

If all of that is correct, then he said to check the actual pins inside. He mentioned that they are easily bent and they ran into that issue with the Tundra sensors.


While I am writing this I just got a phone call from Jim, the head of ARB USA, and he was reading the email I sent, and this thread. He mentioned that they are going to be sending me some complementary flood lights to pop into those 4" holes that are empty!!

THANKS JIM, I appreciate it!!!

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by dtt255

Ok well I just spoke to Marc, one of the head engineers over at ARB USA and he was helpful.

I mentioned my concerns about the gap. He said that it was the correct size. He said that they when things were tested in Australia and here in the US that they saw 1/2 inch flex several times when they were going through their trials
That is why they have a 15mm space and he also said that it is NOT uncommon to have that amount of space.

I think we see that via Slee's comments.

As to why they didn't provide a larger rubber seal....he doesn't know. He suggest a few places that I should go to find one that would be to my liking.

He told me to be very conscious after I come back from wheeling to see if a more snug trim is rubbing and leaving marks on the ARB bumper and maybe even start rubbing away the powder coating. Also to watch to make sure the part that is left of the original bumper isn't constantly popping out.

About the parking sensors.....he laughed when he heard about that. He says the parking sensors are a PITA and told me what mostly likely is wrong. There are left and right sensors but even if they are set on the correct sides that they need to be oriented for the up and down correctly.

If all of that is correct, then he said to check the actual pins inside. He mentioned that they are easily bent and they ran into that issue with the Tundra sensors.


While I am writing this I just got a phone call from Jim, the head of ARB USA, and he was reading the email I sent, and this thread. He mentioned that they are going to be sending me some complementary flood lights to pop into those 4" holes that are empty!!

THANKS JIM, I appreciate it!!!

Why are they giving you free lights? To placate you, or because you are such an early purchaser of their new product stateside?

[dtt255]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Why are they giving you free lights? To placate you, or because you are such an early purchaser of their new product stateside?

I don't think to placate me. If you notice in my results post and I also made this clear to Jim, that I didn't think they were cheap or anything, I, personally, just didn't realize that they were not included.

He understood that. So I cannot explain more then that.

I certainly didn't ask for anything and you can see from my email to them that I didn't even mention the fog lights.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by dtt255

I don't think to placate me. If you notice in my results post and I also made this clear to Jim, that I didn't think they were cheap or anything, I, personally, just didn't realize that they were not included.

He understood that. So I cannot explain more then that.

I certainly didn't ask for anything and you can see from my email to them that I didn't even mention the fog lights.

I don't think you were angling for anything. I just thought it was strange to give you stuff.