[MichiganChapter?]

[quote=LukeZero;1459155]
"I think your complaint is with a specific organization and its board of directors. I wish you would state the organization with which you have the complaint...."

With all due respect...I haven't found a national orv organization as of yet that wasn't dismissive from the start and more so as the initial conversation proceeded. Lots of defending people no matter what the issue and "we'll get back with yous" that never seem to materialize.
I quit arguing "issues' quite some time ago to concentrate full time on simply demanding that the public be treated upfront and with some inkling of respect. I don't appreciate those who cover up for others on the stupidest of these childish matters and I believe that the damage these 'leaders' have done to any chance of our kids 'getting involved' anytime soon trumps even the disaster that this largest system in the nation is now in.

The only thing I've heard second-hand about the TLC here or anywhere is that they have had some political problems within some unnamed Michigan chapter a few years back and that some feelings were hurt. I'm not here to disparage the TLC and even penned my screen name hoping that a chapter was availiable to me that actually kept abreast of issues at (again) the largest maintained trail system in this country.
If the TLC shows more courage than every other national organization I've had the displeasure ofrunning into out there concerning EASY issues such as simply asking the DNR or Forest Service to actually post the "communication building" meetings that they attend and all these other groups sponsor...then that sounds like an organization that would stand up for both you and me regardless of us being 'nobody' and the other guy being somebody that they wrote off a workshop/vacation with.

"....I think you are asking some valid questions about what the TLCA does in regards to landuse issues- but your anger towards this other group makes it difficult to know whether you are criticizing TLCA or warning them (us) not to do the same thing...."

Again, if the TLCA is different from all of these other groups and indeed fights for the most basic tenants of this public being properly informed along with the opposite of our now bastardized "shared trails" concept that certain non-profits seem to enjoy collecting money around without any explanation when asked...then I'm all for them.
If they support groups like "22,000 member" anonymous councils with no public position ever given; cancelled public meetings with no updates for up to 6 months at a time and things like "kumbaya" meetings with absolutely no public notice given...no, I do not.

"...You obviously feel strongly about this, and that is great that you are bringing your heart and soul into this matter. I agree with you that there are some (I've never seen it in TLCA) that are really impressed with themselves and really aren't into landuse issues for what I think are the right reasons...."

The majority here (with any power) are either in it for the reason you mention above; money to unbelievably support themselves or plain 'ol land grabbing to lock up as much as they can forever for their private and 100% exlusionary use.
It's no more simple than that and hasn't been for decades now.
It simply takes an actual 'man' at any one of these national organizations to call what's been going on here for what it is: damaging to the largest system out there both economically and more importantly ecologically.

"....Maybe I'm a little dense, but I can't follow some of your compaints...."

I don't believe that you're dense one bit.
I just cannot explain in a few paragraphs how one cyclist and one atver show up for a quarterly orv advisory board meeting right smack dab in the middle of so much unresolved orv-related business affecting usfor yearsto come (decisions involving literally 10's of millions of dollars and possibly more over the time period that this was last revisited).
What I can tell you in one sentance is this.
Our kids don't have chance one of ever having their voices heard here if this crap continues to be accepted by groups like the TLCA itself.

"...We have the opportunity within TLCA to do better than some of the other clubs/organizations, and you seem to have the drive to be a part of that. Please don't get so frustrated that you give up...."

Luke ,the only reason anybody would want me to 'give up' here is that this state has been an embarrasment to light and full-size organizers for years. Look at Wisconsin or any other state in this nation with a fraction of the negligently maintained trails that we have here...do any of the successful programs you witness there resemble soon to be 4,000 mile Michigan in even the least?

Thanks for your thoughts and am hoping that another TLCA member jumps in here somewhere with some kind of rebuttal on any of this mess ...as I would hate to lump any goodorganization into the same category as others I've run across for the simplest of public responsibility driven issues.