NO (Low) Budget Lift

[uzj100]

Is it possible to run OME rear springs and a slee diff drop kit with standard Toyota torsion bars and Toyota shocks? Would I still get a lift of 1 to 2 inches?

I know this is a lame way to do a lift however I am not running front or rear bumpers and the only armor will be slee sliders.

Thoughts, pros and cons. Leave it rolling on worn out 145k mile suspension.

I have torsion bars and shocks removed from a 99 Cruiser with 60k miles. I was going to use those 4 shocks, the 2 torsion bars, the slee diff drop kit and OME Medium rear springs.

Fire suit on and ready to get railed for this low budget mod talk.

[Adam R]

I don't see any problems with what you suggest. I did it two weeks ago. I had to re-index the front bars to get a total of 1.25 inches of front lift and it nicely matches the rear tire-to- fender spacing giving me about 1/2 inch of rake with my airbags helping out in the rear. I still have about 2.5 inches of droop with the Bilstein shocks I'm running. I built a custom diff drop bracket that lowered everything by .75 inches up front.

Best of all, I did it without the wife noticing the new "lift".

The only downsides are that you will need a new alignment and I will need to re-seal the small side of my CV boots.

Adam

[Trunk Monkey]

You might bottom out the OEM shocks on both ends. Can cause damage on compression and limit travel on extension.

[Campfire]

I ran stock shocks after installing 865's and cranking up my stock T-bars for almost 30K miles. I installed Billstiens and found them shorter than stock.
You shouldn't have a problem IMO.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

You might bottom out the OEM shocks on both ends. Can cause damage on compression and limit travel on extension.

Lifting by springs alone won't cause any damage. The problems come when you start changing to shocks with different compression/extension specs. Then you have to start fooling with bump stops and limiting straps etc. If retaining OEM shocks, the only thing you've done is lower the starting point of the suspension arms in their arc of travel. Ultimate travel is still determined by the shock and bump stops and hasn't changed in this case.

[TXLX470]

I am planning to do the same with OME 866's(heavy) as well. So does this means I am just doing a half job here...what is the height diffrence between stock shocks and OME shocks and does it matter..

[LandCruisers4Life]

The OME lift kit isn't 'that' expensive, why do it half assed ? If you cannot afford to do it all at once, just wait til you can and do it right. No, I don't have a lift on mine yet - because I am waiting so I can do it right.

[uzj100]

Good point.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Factory bumpers?

DO IT!

I'd slap it up about 2-2.75" and be done. The factory T-bars will provide the "easiest flex" of any other setup as the suspension is softer. Travel is fine as you've just changed the up vs down ratio.

If you opt for 2.75" then add 20mm a trim packs in the rear and slap on 35's even.

Originally Posted by LandCruisers4Life

why do it half assed ?

It's not half-assed. If there's little added weight to the vehicle then the stock suspension is sufficient. Wait until you see a stock-front-bumpered 100 travel vs the same rig with HD T-bars. The stock bars allow for much easier up-travel in the twisties. The HD bars fight it, especially without a heavy bumpers on there.

[uzj100]

So standard shocks and t-bars and OME 865 springs and slee drop kit and I will be good to go. The only armor will be slee sliders.

[TXLX470]

Looks like we both are on the same boat and should be able to do it. I already have slee sliders and I am going with 866(heavy but same spring height) since I pull a 4500lb popup camper very often..

Thanks Shotts ..

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by uzj100

So standard shocks and t-bars and OME 865 springs and slee drop kit and I will be good to go. The only armor will be slee sliders.

That's basically a stock-weighted vehicle. Should ride like a champ. Might be a little "swingy" over uneven bumps on trail runs, BUT....no jarring over the rocks...smooth....and easy front articulation. Nice!

[Trunk Monkey]

And realize, you're loading the t-bars and they will loose their spring. Not overnight, but sooner.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

And realize, you're loading the t-bars and they will loose their spring. Not overnight, but sooner.

Not the case. If it were, all of us adding lift via the bars would have sagging bars. Mine today are the same height they were 7 years ago.

He's not adding weight and therefore he is fine.

[Adam R]

Half assed??? Like Shotts said, bumping up a nearly stock 100 with the factory T-bars is not a problem. I have noticed zero change in the handling or performance of our 100.

Also, since I was able to fabricate/modify the stock front diff cross member, I only have about $15 into my lift and until I move to bigger tires or heavier bumpers, it should work just fine.

Adam

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Adam R

Half assed??? Like Shotts said, bumping up a nearly stock 100 with the factory T-bars is not a problem. I have noticed zero change in the handling or performance of our 100.

Also, since I was able to fabricate/modify the stock front diff cross member, I only have about $15 into my lift and until I move to bigger tires or heavier bumpers, it should work just fine.

Adam

$15? You got ripped off!

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Not the case. If it were, all of us adding lift via the bars would have sagging bars. Mine today are the same height they were 7 years ago.

He's not adding weight and therefore he is fine.

It's simple physics. You're increasing the wound spring load on the bar, they can't stay that way forever. Just like leaf and coil springs sag over time, so will a torsion bar. Take a metalurgy class sometime and you'll learn all about it.

Also, if it's not a concern, why is he installing bars from a lower mile truck? Further, if they don't change, why is it a standard part of the Toyota alignment service to adjust the torsion bars bringing the vehicle back to factory stance?

They will loose their spring. Like I said, not overnight, but over time.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Not worth it......................

[1loudLX]

think i should crank my t-bars a little to help the AHC? Its been 8 years, they gotta be a little tired by now.

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Not worth it......................

Not worth what, admitting you're wrong? A spring is bound (ha) by physics, unless you got those one in a million "Shotts-only" special springs that don't have to obey those laws.

The springs probably just realize who you are and don't dare to sag.

[1loudLX]

i wish i had the power to scare things into not sagging, i could make millions!

[Adam R]

Trunk Monkey,

I gotta disagree with you on "increasing the wound energy of the spring" thing. If the vehicle weight is not changing, there is no additional wound energy in the T-Bars. Actually, because of the arc of the suspension bringing the tire closer to the center of the vehicle, there would be slightly less force requied to keep the vehicle off the ground but this difference is negligible. By cranking the bars, you are changing the starting location of where they begin to apply their force, but not the overall effort to push the tire against the ground.

If you begin to add more weight, then yes, more force would be required of the spring to keep a vehicle at the same ride height.

I don't see the need to install the bars from a lower mileage vehicle as being necessary. Yes, bars may sag over time, but the old bars are far from being shot unless they are somehow damaged or defective.



Adam

[Trunk Monkey]

I can see what you're saying and agree that adding weight is the bigger factor, and for a stock truck, the cranked bars may never sag in the life of the truck.

Now let's talk about how cranking your t-bars limits your articulation . . . .

EDIT - Adam R, have you posted up pics of your $15 diff drop that I missed? Folks here would probably be pretty interested.

[Jim_Chow]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

It's simple physics. You're increasing the wound spring load on the bar, they can't stay that way forever. Just like leaf and coil springs sag over time, so will a torsion bar. Take a metalurgy class sometime and you'll learn all about it.

Also, if it's not a concern, why is he installing bars from a lower mile truck? Further, if they don't change, why is it a standard part of the Toyota alignment service to adjust the torsion bars bringing the vehicle back to factory stance?

They will loose their spring. Like I said, not overnight, but over time.

Any spring will tire out, but torsion bar will tire out a lot later than coil springs. There's a reason why US and Russian battle tanks use torsion bar suspensions.

[Adam R]

Unfortunately I did not, but I still haven't put on the back splash plate yet so I may still be able to get a picture of it. In all honesty, it mimics the Slee product, but is .75 inches versus slee's .80 inch drop. Since I have the skills and tools, my time is cheap and I figured I could save some money doing this for myself.

The jist of the mod it to take a 4.5 inch cut-off wheel, remove the bracket on the cross member and lower it by .75 inches. You will also need to source an expensive and longer 14 mm bolt, a few washers and a nut to re-attach everything. You will also need to source some aluminum plate and cut .75 inch thick spacers for the two mounting points on the diff and 5 mounting points for the front splash plate. These will require longer bolts too.

Cutting thick aluminum is a chore and I probably have about 6 hours into everything including pulling the T-bars and re-indexing them since I ran out of travel on one of them at 1/2 inch of lift.

I still need to add a spacer to the front of the rear splash plate since the bracket attached to the cross member now sits .75 inches lower that it used to, but the body of cross member is in the same location (hope you can follow that). It's small interference problem that will require two spacers on the front of this splash plate to get it over the new lower bracket. I believe Slee overcomes this by making the whole cross member lower and flush with the bottom of his bracket.

Adam

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

Adam R, have you posted up pics of your $15 diff drop that I missed? Folks here would probably be pretty interested.

Doron came up with it, he and I did ours years ago then Doron sent the info to Slee so he could work on a bolt-on solution.

John Shotts (shottscruisers) : photos : Custom Front Differential Drop- powered by SmugMug

[Adam R]

Here are some pics of my $15 diff drop. Again, this is pretty close to how Slee does it and I also consulted the pics that Shotts posted up a while back. Basically I used some 3/4 inch aluminum plate to create the spacers to drop the diff and front skid plate. For the cross member bracket, I carefully cut if off, lowered it by 3/4 of an inch and braced the lower portion of the bracket with some 1 x 1 angle iron as you can see in the pic.

You also need to move the back diff bolt to the front position and purchase a longer rear diff mounting bolt. Longer bolts will also be required for the front skid plate since it is spaced down 3/4 of an inch. I also had to put in some 3/4 inch spacers for the two bolts in the middle of the rear skid plate to clear the bracket that has been lowered.

Throw on some satin paint and you've got a $250 mod for around $15 bucks.

Adam