100 series vs. 4runner drivetrain

[eskimochaos]

What are the similarities and differences. I know that they share the same 2UZFE engine (my 07 4r has VVT-i) whereas my mom's 04 LC does not. What else do they share.

I assume that the 5 speed trans is the same, the 4r has the Torsion Center Diff whereas the LC does not which is "better"?

How do the frames differ?

Are the axles/diffs/drive shafts the same because I believe they have VERY close wheelbases.

Just wondering...

Thanks!

[1loudLX]

4runner shares the same platform as the 120-series landcruiser if im not mistaken. Similar in design to the 100 but different beast.

[hks3sgte]

100 = Heavy duty

4Runner (120) = Light Duty

Slide underneath a Land cruiser and you'll see the difference.

[eskimochaos]

Originally Posted by hks3sgte

100 = Heavy duty

4Runner (120) = Light Duty

Slide underneath a Land cruiser and you'll see the difference.

Yea I hear you everything on my mom's 04 LC is clearly overbuilt.

[1loudLX]

Originally Posted by eskimochaos

Yea I hear you everything on my mom's 04 LC is clearly overbuilt.

spoken by the man himself! Still think the 4R is a sweet truck, especially with the 2UZ-FE motor.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by hks3sgte

100 = Heavy duty

4Runner (120) = Light Duty

Slide underneath a Land cruiser and you'll see the difference.

I don't think the 100 series is heavy duty at all. The 4runner is a little tougher do to the 4runner being a 2003 introduction where as the 100 series is using tech from 1998.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by eskimochaos

What are the similarities and differences. I know that they share the same 2UZFE engine (my 07 4r has VVT-i) whereas my mom's 04 LC does not. What else do they share.

Same 2UZ motor and 5 speed.

the 4r has the Torsion Center Diff whereas the LC does not which is "better"?

Torsen differential for sure although you get vibration with the system that is report on Gx and now some 200 series models.

How do the frames differ?

I would have to go with the 4 runner frame for sure on this one. The 100 series frame was engineered for introduction in 1998 while the 120 series frame came out in 2003....the 2003 frame of the 120 series likely uses all the advancement in frame design in the 5 years from 1998.

Are the axles/diffs/drive shafts the same because I believe they have VERY close wheelbases

Axles are different. Not sure about drive shafts...front suspension is different design and set up.

What are the similarities and differences

4runner has more equipment.

Down hill assist control
Hill start assist
Rear height control air suspension (06-07 LC uses TEMS)
X-REAS suspension
Duel air conditioning

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Same 2UZ motor and 5 speed.



Torsen differential for sure although you get vibration with the system that is report on Gx and now some 200 series models.



I would have to go with the 4 runner frame for sure on this one. The 100 series frame was engineered for introduction in 1998 while the 120 series frame came out in 2003....the 2003 frame of the 120 series likely uses all the advancement in frame design in the 5 years from 1998.



Axles are different. Not sure about drive shafts...front suspension is different design and set up.



4runner has more equipment.

Down hill assist control
Hill start assist
Rear height control air suspension (06-07 LC uses TEMS)
X-REAS suspension
Duel air conditioning

You're basing the heavy dutiness of the frame on the year they were designed?! The 100 series frame is much heavier duty.

The rear differential in the 100 series are on par with dana 44's, some would say dana 60's.

The 'equipment' you list is just......fluff. Nothing 'heavy duty' there.

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I don't think the 100 series is heavy duty at all.

Like hks says, go underneath. The LC is built for the 3rd world. The LC frame is about twice the size of the 4Runner and heavily boxed and supported.The Runner, while still Toyota quality, isn't in the same league. Being introduced in '98 has nothing to do with it, it has to do with being built to last a LONG time.

Oh, and I have dual AC. And TEMS was on the Supra. LC and LX use AHC.

[1loudLX]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I don't think the 100 series is heavy duty at all. The 4runner is a little tougher do to the 4runner being a 2003 introduction where as the 100 series is using tech from 1998.

uhh, not so much. Go check out the undersides of both vehicles and report back what you discover.

[Proud Highway]

I own a 4runner and owned a 100.

The primary difference is size. Both are built very stout, like brick shithouses. Chassis flex or fatigue will never be an issue in your lifetime. Build quality for both is exceptional. I never pushed either to the limit off road, but where I did go the 4runner had the advantage in size (fewer pinstripes), but in all other categories the 100 does with ease what makes the 4runner sweat a little. The gizmos on the 4runner are just that--gizmos. The 4runner is a little zippier around town, but the 100 is slightly better driving overall IMO (quieter, smoother, better visibility).

It's sort of like comparing an E-class mercedes to an S-class. Both are liked by many people, both are MB, but the S-class stands alone as does the 100. If $ were no object and I wasn't living in an urban area I'd have my 100 back. Other than homely looks, I can't say one bad thing about my 4runner, but it just isn't a 100.

[pagemaster]

LC and LX use AHC.

To be fair to the OP. I am only comparing the v8 4runner to 100 series Land Cruiser (06-07 TEMS included. Not including LX in this discussion at all. But perhaps we should look at all platform models.

Being introduced in '98 has nothing to do with it, it has to do with being built to last a LONG time.

It has a lot to do with it. The 2003 4runner frame is engineered with everything that is known in 2003 compared to what what was engineered in 1998.

The LC is built for the 3rd world

The 70 series is built for real third word duty. EVERYWHERE in the third world the 100 series is offered so too is the 120 series..

100 series is an upscale SUV....

The rear differential in the 100 series are on par with dana 44's, some would say dana 60's

mmm..the 100 series 4.7/5speed can tow up to 6500 lbs while the 4runner with 4.7/speed can move 7000lbs both are full time 4WD. I don't see the frame or axle strength giving the advantage to the 100 series in this situation.


yes the payload is more in the 100 series by about 300lbs but who cares about that when the Highlander can haul more payload than both the 4runner and Lancruiser (100 series or 200 series)
However a 120 series Diesel Land Cruiser Prada (according to Toyota in South Africa) has a payload of almost 1900lbs which is more than a 100 series Land Cruiser.

The 100 series is tough but it is NOT heavy duty. I am giving some stat here while you have nothing to show that the 100 series is heavy duty.

Show me so stats that prove that the 100 series can out perform at 120 series?

The 70 series is BY FAR heavy duty with 2400 lb payload capacity, solid front axle, leaf springs rear....sadly the towing capacity is VERY poor.

[uzj100]

Go lay under both. I agree that the one was engineered in 97 and the other in 02 however just go check out all the pieces under there, no comparison. Check the weight vs dimensions, no comparison. Both are over built however the 100 takes it to the next level.

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The 100 series is tough but it is NOT heavy duty. I am giving some stat here while you have nothing to show that the 100 series is heavy duty.

You need a better benchmark than towing alone. And to say that because a frame is designed 5 years later makes it better is a little naive.

Let's talk reliability, even though it's Toyota. The '98 Land Cruiser has had 41 TSB's released in the past 10 years. The '03 4Runner has had 62 in just 5 years. How many more will it have in 5 more?

From Wikipedia:
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado is a model designation used in Japan, Australia, South Africa, Middle East and Latin America as well as other parts of the world for light-duty, mid-sized four-wheel drive cars in the Toyota Land Cruiser line.

Out of the US the Prado is widely recognized as the "junior" Land Cruiser, not quite as strong or stout, but still Toyota. And as several people have said, look under them. Measure. You want hard numbers, well I don't have any to give you because I don't have both here. But I have a '99 Land Cruiser, my father has an '04 4Runner, and I have been under both.

[1loudLX]

The closest you can get to the true 120 prado stateside is a GX470.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

You need a better benchmark than towing alone. And to say that because a frame is designed 5 years later makes it better is a little naive.

Let's talk reliability, even though it's Toyota. The '98 Land Cruiser has had 41 TSB's released in the past 10 years. The '03 4Runner has had 62 in just 5 years. How many more will it have in 5 more?

From Wikipedia:
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado is a model designation used in Japan, Australia, South Africa, Middle East and Latin America as well as other parts of the world for light-duty, mid-sized four-wheel drive cars in the Toyota Land Cruiser line.

Out of the US the Prado is widely recognized as the "junior" Land Cruiser, not quite as strong or stout, but still Toyota. And as several people have said, look under them. Measure. You want hard numbers, well I don't have any to give you because I don't have both here. But I have a '99 Land Cruiser, my father has an '04 4Runner, and I have been under both.

I was gonna say the same thing. I showed this to my father in law, his girlfriend has an '05 4Runner, and he just laughed. He said the same thing, the 4Runner is an exceptional vehicle, but is not in the same class as a 100 series or even 80 series LC for that matter.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

You need a better benchmark than towing alone.
.

Well towing is one benchmark that clearly is in favour of the 120 series platform....it tows more not because of the engine or tranny (same as 120) but because it has newer techonology, frame engineering, brakes etc for the release in 2003. In 2003 the 100 series was already obsolete by power, towing, cargo standards at that time.

You need a better benchmark than towing alone

The 100 series Lexus LX470 uses 12.2 rotors up front and 12.8 inch rotors in the rear. The 120 series GX 470 uses 13.3 inches rotors up front and 12.3 inch rotors in the rear. Clearly the 120 series uses bigger brakes.

Cargo capacity is about the same as well with 2 more feet of capacity in the 100 series

The 100 series frame was designed and engineered in or around 1995-1997 for introductino in 1998. The 120 series likely started design and research in 2001 or so. Competition became tougher in those years and research in vehicle engineering advanced from 1998 LC to a 2003 4runner.

Currently Toyota claims that the 200 series Land Cruiser is the strongest frame they have ever built.

[1loudLX]

and you wouldnt claim your newest product, that your're now selling is your best/strongest thing you've made to date? I would say that the 120 has higher towing capacity because the majority of things we're not overbuilt, causing the vehicles curb weight to be lower. With a lower weight, more can be towed since the brakes/drivetain have breathing room.

Page, out of curiosity, what do you drive?

[eskimochaos]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Well towing is one benchmark that clearly is in favour of the 120 series platform....it tows more not because of the engine or tranny (same as 120) but because it has newer techonology, frame engineering, brakes etc for the release in 2003. In 2003 the 100 series was already obsolete by power, towing, cargo standards at that time.



The 100 series Lexus LX470 uses 12.2 rotors up front and 12.8 inch rotors in the rear. The 120 series GX 470 uses 13.3 inches rotors up front and 12.3 inch rotors in the rear. Clearly the 120 series uses bigger brakes.

Cargo capacity is about the same as well with 2 more feet of capacity in the 100 series

The 100 series frame was designed and engineered in or around 1995-1997 for introductino in 1998. The 120 series likely started design and research in 2001 or so. Competition became tougher in those years and research in vehicle engineering advanced from 1998 LC to a 2003 4runner.

Currently Toyota claims that the 200 series Land Cruiser is the strongest frame they have ever built.

I understand they increased torsional strength in the 200 over the 100 frame by 40% and lateral strength by 20%. I also read that in 1998 when Toyota set out to create a frame stronger than Land Rover, they did so and after testing, it was deemed the strongest vehicle frame ever forged.

Furthermore, regarding sliding underneath them. The frame overall size/thickess etc appears to be VERY similar from the 100 to the 4r. The main differences is the front suspension and different rear end setup.

I can slide under both....my moms 04 LC

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

The 100 series Lexus LX470 uses 12.2 rotors up front and 12.8 inch rotors in the rear. The 120 series GX 470 uses 13.3 inches rotors up front and 12.3 inch rotors in the rear. Clearly the 120 series uses bigger brakes.

4Runner is 11.7".

And I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but looking around the net, I've found 3 places that spec towing of the 100 at 3500kg and the 120 at 2500kg.

http://www.overlander.com.au/vehicle...ckaroo-v-ML270

[Dandon]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

To be fair to the OP. I am only comparing the v8 4runner to 100 series Land Cruiser (06-07 TEMS included. Not including LX in this discussion at all. But perhaps we should look at all platform models.



It has a lot to do with it. The 2003 4runner frame is engineered with everything that is known in 2003 compared to what what was engineered in 1998.

The M1 Abrams entered service in 980. The VW New Beetle in 1998. Obviously, this makes the VW much tougher.

The LC 100 is named / equipped very differently according to the country. Mi '99 euro spec 100 (not LX470) has the AHC and most of the LX470 equipment.

It is also rated for 3500 kg towing weight, which is 7800 lb.

[eskimochaos]

Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey

4Runner is 11.7".

And I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but looking around the net, I've found 3 places that spec towing of the 100 at 3500kg and the 120 at 2500kg.

Towing Comparison: LandCruiser v Prado v Patrol v Jackaroo v ML270 - Vehicle Tests - Overlander 4WD Magazine - Australia's leading four wheel drive magazine

No, the breaks are 13.3 on the Sport Edition 4r and the gx470

[Trunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by eskimochaos

No, the breaks are 13.3 on the Sport Edition 4r and the gx470

Yep, I was looking at 96-00 info. And it's brakes.

[pagemaster]

[quote=1loudLX;3536511]and you wouldnt claim your newest product, that your're now selling is your best/strongest thing you've made to date? quote]

Of course. And as technology, research etc progress you are going to be able to build something that is stronger, more powerful whatever it be than something in the past at it really does not matter of the size the vehicle is. .

The 100 series was no doubt the strongest suv frame on the market when it was introduced in 1998. The engineering of the frame at time was stronger than the 4runner at the time but one can't really say that the current 4runner frame is weaker when it can perform just as good as the larger 100 series if not better in some aspects such as towing for instance.

At that time the 100 series was introduced the 4runner had a 105 inch wheelbase, front disc/rear drums, v6 and 4 speed tranny. The current 120 series now has longer wheel base, 4 wheel discs, v8, 5 speed etc...for 2003 Toyota built on every aspect of the 4runner before it.

I would say that the 120 has higher towing capacity because the majority of things we're not overbuilt, causing the vehicles curb weight to be lower

And I would have to say that inprovment is the strength of steel used, quality parts, technology etc has help the GX perform as good if not better in some aspects.

If the 100 series used 12.5 inch rotors all around then Toyota must of over built the brake system on the 120 series by using 13 inch rotors.

Here is a couple quotes from some original print articles from 1998

The extra stiffness and refined manners come at a price, however--mass. The new, all-steel-bodied Cruiser weighs nearly 500 pounds more than its predecessor, mostly due to the chassis and body upgrades. Kondo says there was no plan to offset the added mass with lighter weight components, such as aluminum body panels. At nearly 6,500 pounds GVWR, the Cruiser is actually a medium-duty vehicle.

New Land Cruiser gets V-8 - Toyota Land Cruiser - includes related article on the Lexus LX450 | Automotive Industries | Find Articles at BNET

We can throw out the whole heavy duty issue. So its a medium duty vehicle.

[pagemaster]

The M1 Abrams entered service in 980. The VW New Beetle in 1998

You damn right. Over a 1000+ years later....of course the VW New Beetle will be much tougher.

[NeilC]

I own both and can tell you there is no comparison. My wife has a 2006 4wd 4Runner with a v6 and I have a 2000 Landcruiser. The Landcruiser is a tank compared to the 4runner. Like people have said, crawl underneath both trucks and you will see. It is almost like comparing a Tacoma to a Tundra. One important thing to understand is that the Landcruiser is a spare no expense design. Sure the Lexus has more luxury amentities but the Landcruiser has the same running gear. It is obvious when driving the two that the 4runner is a lot lighter vehicle. The formula for towing limits are calcuated buy subtracting vehicle weight from combined weight which penalizes the heavier vehicle. The Landcruiser is a thousand pounds heavier and you can tell. The 4runner is faster even when you compare the v6 4runner to the LC. I know because we raced them and I got spanked. The 4runner is a hybrid in that the same basic platform is used for 2wd and 4wd. The 4runner is also designed to meet a price point where it must compete against other midsized SUVs. Dont get me wrong, the 4runner is the best midsize SUV out there but cannot compare to the Landcruiser. Normal people dont try to compare a $30,000 truck to a $60,000 truck but I can tell you that my 9 year old LC with 115,000 miles rides and drives better than my wife's 2 year old 4runner with 20,000 miles.